Mini Normal 2313: I am sitting in a room (game over)

[JacksonVirgo]

I like how much effort Jackson has put into getting caught up and showing us their thoughts throughout the process. It seems towny to me because I doubt that a member of the scum team would go this far.

I’m town so all the conspiracy theory stuff you’ve said about me is wrong and I’m happy to clear anything up.

As for what Black asked about why my read on Dannflor changed, I already mentioned it in this post. He’s been willing to remain open minded about people and seems to be working hard to solve things. It doesn’t feel like he’s being manipulative or just following the crowd, so I think he’s probably town.

Hu Tao has been potentially cleared and I town read Andante, so the only person from my D1 wagon who I’m still unsure about is Wiz

Did you read all of what I said?

[BlackStar]

I like how much effort Jackson has put into getting caught up and showing us their thoughts throughout the process. It seems towny to me because I doubt that a member of the scum team would go this far.

I’m town so all the conspiracy theory stuff you’ve said about me is wrong and I’m happy to clear anything up.

As for what Black asked about why my read on Dannflor changed, I already mentioned it in this post. He’s been willing to remain open minded about people and seems to be working hard to solve things. It doesn’t feel like he’s being manipulative or just following the crowd, so I think he’s probably town.

Hu Tao has been potentially cleared and I town read Andante, so the only person from my D1 wagon who I’m still unsure about is Wiz

Did you read all of what I said?

Yeah

[JacksonVirgo]

Are you sure? I directly asked you something in the midst of it

[BlackStar]

Are you sure? I directly asked you something in the midst of it

Do you mean the part about Wiz? I started off scum reading him because he seemed to not take a stand on anything and just follow the crowd. Then I decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he was just an unsure townie. But almost every post that he makes rubs me the wrong way and just feels like he's leaving the door open to jump on any wagon in the future, so I think I'm still leaning scum on him

[JacksonVirgo]

Hmm, I see. Thank you

[JacksonVirgo]

I'll give my thoughts in depth soon, am busy rn just to be transparent

[AnimatedWiz]

1000
Also I just realised I've been playing with the assumption of two wolves but everyone else keeps bringing a group of three. Whoops

Important setup stuff that someone will inevitably neglect to read

- This game will have ten town-aligned players and three mafia-aligned players.

…I also made this mistake for the first 20 pages or so, I think.

Considering you responded to this, I'm sure you have thoughts about my catch up I would like to tap your brain about when you have time. Bounce off what I've said, or state your read on me (I am curious where you stand on this considering I was wolf in our last game) things like that.

I probably can’t go into a bunch of detail until later today, but I will say that a lot of your final reads mirror mine—I townread Dann pretty heavily, and Bug just seems quiet and not scummy to me, but otherwise the tierlist you made seems accurate to me.

I will admit, last game you replaced into my most townread slot and did a similar style of catch-up, so I don’t want to repeat the same mistake of getting pocketed because you townread me during your catch-up… but I do feel like you’re town based on your reads and explanations for them. Charles was pretty hard to read as a rule, but near the end he felt like he was a townie playing a really weird game—so I think the townread tracks between y’all?

I also just really need to make sure that I don’t immediately scumread you because a lot of your behaviors are similar to your previous game—from what you said, you’re just like this normally and it’s not really a tell.

[Black]

I don't think your reasons for town!Dann are good enough to remove him from your PoE all together. It doesn't really feel believable. To me it seems like you both scumread each other to distance and then came up with ways to remove each other from your PoEs

If he was scum, there wouldn't be any reason to back off after my self-vote

I can think of a couple reasons he would do that as scum if you're town. But he would have more reason to back off if you're both scum

[JacksonVirgo]

I probably can’t go into a bunch of detail until later today, but I will say that a lot of your final reads mirror mine—I townread Dann pretty heavily, and Bug just seems quiet and not scummy to me, but otherwise the tierlist you made seems accurate to me.

I will admit, last game you replaced into my most townread slot and did a similar style of catch-up, so I don’t want to repeat the same mistake of getting pocketed because you townread me during your catch-up… but I do feel like you’re town based on your reads and explanations for them. Charles was pretty hard to read as a rule, but near the end he felt like he was a townie playing a really weird game—so I think the townread tracks between y’all?

I also just really need to make sure that I don’t immediately scumread you because a lot of your behaviors are similar to your previous game—from what you said, you’re just like this normally and it’s not really a tell.

I don't care for bug too much but could you tell me why you town-read Dann as much as you do? I'm glad you're aware that not everything I do as scum is something that's my scum-tell, I am curious though what part of my behaviour you're seeing the same just as this intrigues me

[JacksonVirgo]

I'm also not asking for it now, whenever you have time

[JacksonVirgo]

I think what I saw on BlackStar's self vote is something that's gonna be kinda difficult to get out of my mind but I'm also aware I find it difficult to articulate those types of behavioural reads so if anybody doesn't understand what I said let me know

[BlackStar]

I don't think your reasons for town!Dann are good enough to remove him from your PoE all together. It doesn't really feel believable. To me it seems like you both scumread each other to distance and then came up with ways to remove each other from your PoEs

If he was scum, there wouldn't be any reason to back off after my self-vote

I can think of a couple reasons he would do that as scum if you're town. But he would have more reason to back off if you're both scum

I know that I’m town, so I’m not sure what to tell you

[Black]

I think Dann tried to back off of BlackStar in a believable way but there's some inconsistencies there. I'll explain more when I get to a computer

[JacksonVirgo]

I think Dann tried to back off of BlackStar in a believable way but there's some inconsistencies there. I'll explain more when I get to a computer

I'll refrain from agreeing until you explain more just to avoid conf-bias

[Black]

I know that I’m town, so I’m not sure what to tell you

Why is your first thought here "I need to reiterate I'm town" instead of wondering why scum!Dann would back off of town!you? You said there wouldn't be any reason for him to do that as scum. I'm saying there are a couple reasons he would, but you're not questioning that. Is that something you actually believe? I don't get the vibe that you're actually trying to sort Dannflor this game

[Dannflor]

I think it’s fucking ridiculous to think I would be the primary push against scum buddy Blackstar for most of D1 and then decide an AtE self vote was the best moment to switch to a hard town read rather than just the nail in the coffin

[AnimatedWiz]

I probably can’t go into a bunch of detail until later today, but I will say that a lot of your final reads mirror mine—I townread Dann pretty heavily, and Bug just seems quiet and not scummy to me, but otherwise the tierlist you made seems accurate to me.

I will admit, last game you replaced into my most townread slot and did a similar style of catch-up, so I don’t want to repeat the same mistake of getting pocketed because you townread me during your catch-up… but I do feel like you’re town based on your reads and explanations for them. Charles was pretty hard to read as a rule, but near the end he felt like he was a townie playing a really weird game—so I think the townread tracks between y’all?

I also just really need to make sure that I don’t immediately scumread you because a lot of your behaviors are similar to your previous game—from what you said, you’re just like this normally and it’s not really a tell.

I don't care for bug too much but could you tell me why you town-read Dann as much as you do? I'm glad you're aware that not everything I do as scum is something that's my scum-tell, I am curious though what part of my behaviour you're seeing the same just as this intrigues me

From the start of the game, I felt like Dann was trying to get information from everyone—good questions at good times, generally. When Dann explained his process being different than in the past, I figured I should trust that explanation based on the fact that I had no real reason not to, I suppose? In our previous game, I didn’t trust you when you explained your process for me (and while I was right to not trust you, that wasn’t really a valid reason for me not to do so), so I’m trying to give him a fair shake on that reasoning.

And the main thing with you is you’re coming in, giving a recap, and townreading me heavily. It could be an attempt at pocketing, but at the same time I don’t really have any reason to assume that over than you just townreading me normally—after all, asking for trust from another townie is how towncores get formed, right?

So, uh, I guess what I’m saying it’s that you have the same sort of opening, which doesn’t truly mean much, y’know? I’m just trying to give you and Dann a fair shake and taking y’all at your word when you explain your behavior—since everything makes sense to me if I examine both of y’all through a townie lens, I think it holds up?

[Black]

I think Dann's reaction to my BlackStar vote on Monday makes more sense if those two are partnered. His immediate reaction was to discredit my position and call me slimy for it. I think scum would benefit from throwing doubt on my soft clear there. It acts as a way to try and halt the BlackStar wagon in it's tracks. And yeah I totally think Dannflor would be involved in an attempt to NK me. I was one of the few people suspecting him D1

[Black]

I think it’s fucking ridiculous to think I would be the primary push against scum buddy Blackstar for most of D1 and then decide an AtE self vote was the best moment to switch to a hard town read rather than just the nail in the coffin

This mixture of WIFOM and AtE doesn't feel good

I don't think it's ridiculous at all to assume the plan changed once the BlackStar wagon gained real traction. I think saving your buddy instead of hard bussing him could be worth it if you make it believable enough

[Dannflor]

you agreed with my blackstar town read like 2 pages before

you were avoiding taking any responsibility for the vote

I think your town but the vote was still fucking slimy

[Dannflor]

like actually why does it make any sense for blackstar to get upset and selfvote if it was a planned distancing thing

[Dannflor]

I was the one who built the blackstar wagon !!

[Black]

I was the one who built the blackstar wagon !!

Do you think this means you can't be partnered?

[Dannflor]

god I am so frustrated because I'm pretty sure you are both town

and we have 3 like literally outed scum and you two are going after the most inane conspiracy theory

[Black]

like actually why does it make any sense for blackstar to get upset and selfvote if it was a planned distancing thing

The self vote may have been a genuine frustration moment for him. I don't think your distancing plan included that