Mini Normal 2313: I am sitting in a room (game over)


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Post Post #1725 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:35 am

Post by BlackStar »

In post 1717, Merlyn wrote: From where I'm standing I don't know why people are so convinced on Annie as town. When pressed they basically admitted they're just moving to whatever wagon is most likely to lim. That's not town thinking.
In post 1714, JacksonVirgo wrote: I mean, I'm convinced that BlackStar is just textbook wolf here.
Can you explain what I'm missing here? Is it for the same reasons Black has? Or point me to a post explaining the case if I missed it.
I don't get why people think Annie is town either. I've brought up that same point multiple times but most people don't seem to care.

The case against me seems to be that Dannflor and I town read each other so we must be scum buddies
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Post Post #1726 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:35 am

Post by Black »

In post 1719, Dannflor wrote: I also think BlackStar is town

Happy?
You don't just think he's town. You're convinced to the extent that you're willing to be faded instead of him just so we would trust your read on him. Which is wild anyway considering even if you flip town that doesn't mean BlackStar is town too. I just think your confidence in your reads feels completely unnatural. I admit it could be because I'm rarely confident in my own reads, but my gut is telling me it's because you're informed
I scumread Alianna.

ALL HAIL THE SCUM QUEEN!
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Post Post #1727 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:36 am

Post by AnimatedWiz »

In post 1717, Merlyn wrote: From where I'm standing I don't know why people are so convinced on Annie as town. When pressed they basically admitted they're just moving to whatever wagon is most likely to lim. That's not town thinking.

I think you’re misunderstanding me—I have two major scumreads (you and BlackStar), and I am trying to get one of y’all eliminated. If the wagon I am currently parked on is not looking like a feasible elimination for the day, I will happily switch to the other, because regardless of which one of you goes first we still get rid of scum.

And I definitely don’t scumread Dannflor—my scumread of BlackStar is based on all the other evidence against him.
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Post Post #1728 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:38 am

Post by BlackStar »

In post 1727, AnimatedWiz wrote:
In post 1717, Merlyn wrote: From where I'm standing I don't know why people are so convinced on Annie as town. When pressed they basically admitted they're just moving to whatever wagon is most likely to lim. That's not town thinking.

I think you’re misunderstanding me—I have two major scumreads (you and BlackStar), and I am trying to get one of y’all eliminated. If the wagon I am currently parked on is not looking like a feasible elimination for the day, I will happily switch to the other, because regardless of which one of you goes first we still get rid of scum.

And I definitely don’t scumread Dannflor—my scumread of BlackStar is based on all the other evidence against him.
Remind us all what that evidence is again?
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Post Post #1729 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:38 am

Post by Black »

In post 1725, BlackStar wrote: The case against me seems to be that Dannflor and I town read each other so we must be scum buddies
Reducing the votes on you to this is disingenuous. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one that believes this theory
I scumread Alianna.

ALL HAIL THE SCUM QUEEN!
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Post Post #1730 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:40 am

Post by JacksonVirgo »

In post 1726, Black wrote:
In post 1719, Dannflor wrote: I also think BlackStar is town

Happy?
You don't just think he's town. You're convinced to the extent that you're willing to be faded instead of him just so we would trust your read on him. Which is wild anyway considering even if you flip town that doesn't mean BlackStar is town too. I just think your confidence in your reads feels completely unnatural. I admit it could be because I'm rarely confident in my own reads, but my gut is telling me it's because you're informed
Hmm, nah be careful. I've seen countless times where Town is so confident in a TR that they're willing to off themselves to keep them alive.
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Post Post #1731 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:40 am

Post by BlackStar »

In post 1729, Black wrote:
In post 1725, BlackStar wrote: The case against me seems to be that Dannflor and I town read each other so we must be scum buddies
Reducing the votes on you to this is disingenuous. I'm pretty sure I'm the only one that believes this theory
gob's reason for voting me was that I wasn't on the wagon to lim afrayed. I don't even know what pisskop thinks I'm scum because he's had his vote parked on me the entire time and barely says anything.
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Post Post #1732 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:43 am

Post by Black »

In post 1730, JacksonVirgo wrote:
In post 1726, Black wrote:
In post 1719, Dannflor wrote: I also think BlackStar is town

Happy?
You don't just think he's town. You're convinced to the extent that you're willing to be faded instead of him just so we would trust your read on him. Which is wild anyway considering even if you flip town that doesn't mean BlackStar is town too. I just think your confidence in your reads feels completely unnatural. I admit it could be because I'm rarely confident in my own reads, but my gut is telling me it's because you're informed
Hmm, nah be careful. I've seen countless times where Town is so confident in a TR that they're willing to off themselves to keep them alive.
I have too. This doesn't feel like one of those times to me. The strength of the TR doesn't feel real
I scumread Alianna.

ALL HAIL THE SCUM QUEEN!
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Post Post #1733 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 4:44 am

Post by JacksonVirgo »

I feel it's them full-committing after being called out for buddying with their buddy. Whether that's to make Star look bad, or to use as an argument once Star flips red.
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Post Post #1734 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 5:07 am

Post by AnimatedWiz »

In post 1728, BlackStar wrote: Remind us all what that evidence is again?
You have few scumreads—almost always, you have just one that you repeatedly try to eliminate (Andante, Charles, Bug, then me), and these are almost always wagons that already exist. As soon as public opinion mostly turns against that scumread, you jump ship and try to find someone else to shift attention to.

Additionally, you seem to mainly vote based on whoever will prolong your survival, and not based on any followable logic aside from OMGUS—you admit to OMGUS being a main consideration in your reads in and then slowly try to backtrack from that as soon as other people realize how scummy that sounds. Actually, whenever anyone counters you, you immediately try to downplay and shift the meaning of what you said.

Also, your scum games from 2018 aren’t the best reason to townread you, since it’s literally been 5 years with no games since then—even if you didn’t intend to, you likely play very different from then due to exposure to new experiences and theories. Plus, you linked them yourself, which could mean you chose ones that are explicitly different from your current playstyle.

Finally, Merlyn has been defending you since D2, like in . I don’t think it’s irrational to see one scummy person working with another and have it compound the suspicion on both. You both seem to have found a shared target to try to push your own wagons onto, after all.
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Post Post #1735 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 5:10 am

Post by Dannflor »

VOTE: blackstar
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Post Post #1736 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 5:10 am

Post by AnimatedWiz »

And let me use the same reasoning you yourself used earlier when giving your scumread:
In post 1469, BlackStar wrote: His posts just feel scummy to me.
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Post Post #1737 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 5:15 am

Post by JacksonVirgo »

In post 1735, Dannflor wrote: VOTE: blackstar
wut
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Post Post #1738 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 5:21 am

Post by BlackStar »

In post 1734, AnimatedWiz wrote:
In post 1728, BlackStar wrote: Remind us all what that evidence is again?
You have few scumreads—almost always, you have just one that you repeatedly try to eliminate (Andante, Charles, Bug, then me), and these are almost always wagons that already exist. As soon as public opinion mostly turns against that scumread, you jump ship and try to find someone else to shift attention to.

Additionally, you seem to mainly vote based on whoever will prolong your survival, and not based on any followable logic aside from OMGUS—you admit to OMGUS being a main consideration in your reads in and then slowly try to backtrack from that as soon as other people realize how scummy that sounds. Actually, whenever anyone counters you, you immediately try to downplay and shift the meaning of what you said.

Also, your scum games from 2018 aren’t the best reason to townread you, since it’s literally been 5 years with no games since then—even if you didn’t intend to, you likely play very different from then due to exposure to new experiences and theories. Plus, you linked them yourself, which could mean you chose ones that are explicitly different from your current playstyle.

Finally, Merlyn has been defending you since D2, like in . I don’t think it’s irrational to see one scummy person working with another and have it compound the suspicion on both. You both seem to have found a shared target to try to push your own wagons onto, after all.
I never tried to eliminate Andante. All i said was that they were really aggressive right off the bat and I wasn;t sure what to make of that. Then people kept asking me a million times if I scum read her and I said no every time. I've scum read you since day one, so you trying to pretend that I just magically decide to pay attention to you now is BS. I still don't like Bug's slot but his replacement isn't here yet, so I'm not sure how you think I could keep pushing him. The Charles wagon existed because I created it, so once again you're distorting facts.

I explain my logic every step of the way. What you said about post 1425 is inaccurate because I've been consistent about that this entire time. I don't see why it's scummy to not trust someone who is pushing for you to die.

I posted my games because Black asked for them. I didn't read through them, I just picked whatever scum games I could find. I don't see them as evidence as anything, I'm just giving Black what they wanted.

I'm not really sure what your point about Merlyn is. I don't think I've ever defended Merlyn and I'm not voting you so how exactly are we working together?
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Post Post #1739 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 5:24 am

Post by Skygazer »

VC 2.22
BlackStar
(5): pisskop, JacksonVirgo, gob, Black, Dannflor
Merlyn
(2): bob3141, AnimatedWiz
AnimatedWiz
(2): Merlyn, Andante
Black
(1): Hu Tao
bob3141
(1): Titus
gob
(1): BlackStar

Not Voting
(0):

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to smack a player really hard in the nose. Day 2 ends in (expired on 2023-10-08 22:15:00).

mod notes: Assaulting sensation
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Post Post #1740 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 5:57 am

Post by bob3141 »

In post 1717, Merlyn wrote: From where I'm standing I don't know why people are so convinced on Annie as town. When pressed they basically admitted they're just moving to whatever wagon is most likely to lim. That's not town thinking.
In post 1714, JacksonVirgo wrote: I mean, I'm convinced that BlackStar is just textbook wolf here.
Can you explain what I'm missing here? Is it for the same reasons Black has? Or point me to a post explaining the case if I missed it.
whats your view on blackstar, i noticed last time blackstar was run up day one, you reacted by pushing the same player you are now ami.
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Post Post #1741 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 6:25 am

Post by AnimatedWiz »

In post 1738, BlackStar wrote: I've scum read you since day one, so you trying to pretend that I just magically decide to pay attention to you now is BS. I still don't like Bug's slot but his replacement isn't here yet, so I'm not sure how you think I could keep pushing him.
I never said you don’t lay out foundations for future wagons—you just made far more of a push for me once the other options weren’t going to be received well. And your Bug push stopped as soon as the replacement happened because everyone else also wanted to wait on pushing Titus since the main evidence against Bug was just inactivity.

In post 1738, BlackStar wrote: I explain my logic every step of the way. What you said about post 1425 is inaccurate because I've been consistent about that this entire time. I don't see why it's scummy to not trust someone who is pushing for you to die.
It’s scummy because it’s
only
a survival tactic—it doesn’t lead to accurate reads for the town and just reduces the town’s trust in each other. When the town subscribes to the idea of every player for themself, they lose.

Also, you spent like the next 3 posts trying to make your admission of OMGUS seem less damning and less clear. You weren’t consistent, even if you honestly thought you were.
In post 1738, BlackStar wrote: I posted my games because Black asked for them. I didn't read through them, I just picked whatever scum games I could find. I don't see them as evidence as anything, I'm just giving Black what they wanted.
I suppose I can’t really mechanically confirm or deny this statement, just state my theory on the possibility of you cherry-picking games.

In post 1738, BlackStar wrote: I'm not really sure what your point about Merlyn is. I don't think I've ever defended Merlyn and I'm not voting you so how exactly are we working together?
This is almost certainly because people kept on harping on you and Dann working together—before that was called out, Merlyn was already working to rehabilitate your image, and therefore couldn’t really stop helping you without it seeming like she was backing off due to the accusation alone. However, since you hadn’t helped her yet, you likely decided to not try to support her to not arouse any more suspicion for yourself.
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Post Post #1742 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 6:28 am

Post by AnimatedWiz »

Also, Dann, why the vote? I really doubt it’s due to trust in the actual elimination, and I would hate to have you vote on Star just because everyone else is.

I’m for Star going, but I don’t want you on the wagon if you don’t actually believe in it.
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Post Post #1743 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 6:37 am

Post by BlackStar »

In post 1741, AnimatedWiz wrote:
In post 1738, BlackStar wrote: I've scum read you since day one, so you trying to pretend that I just magically decide to pay attention to you now is BS. I still don't like Bug's slot but his replacement isn't here yet, so I'm not sure how you think I could keep pushing him.
I never said you don’t lay out foundations for future wagons—you just made far more of a push for me once the other options weren’t going to be received well. And your Bug push stopped as soon as the replacement happened because everyone else also wanted to wait on pushing Titus since the main evidence against Bug was just inactivity.

In post 1738, BlackStar wrote: I explain my logic every step of the way. What you said about post 1425 is inaccurate because I've been consistent about that this entire time. I don't see why it's scummy to not trust someone who is pushing for you to die.
It’s scummy because it’s
only
a survival tactic—it doesn’t lead to accurate reads for the town and just reduces the town’s trust in each other. When the town subscribes to the idea of every player for themself, they lose.

Also, you spent like the next 3 posts trying to make your admission of OMGUS seem less damning and less clear. You weren’t consistent, even if you honestly thought you were.
In post 1738, BlackStar wrote: I posted my games because Black asked for them. I didn't read through them, I just picked whatever scum games I could find. I don't see them as evidence as anything, I'm just giving Black what they wanted.
I suppose I can’t really mechanically confirm or deny this statement, just state my theory on the possibility of you cherry-picking games.

In post 1738, BlackStar wrote: I'm not really sure what your point about Merlyn is. I don't think I've ever defended Merlyn and I'm not voting you so how exactly are we working together?
This is almost certainly because people kept on harping on you and Dann working together—before that was called out, Merlyn was already working to rehabilitate your image, and therefore couldn’t really stop helping you without it seeming like she was backing off due to the accusation alone. However, since you hadn’t helped her yet, you likely decided to not try to support her to not arouse any more suspicion for yourself.
Your point about Bug makes no sense. If that slot isn't here then how am I supposed to be pushing them? I've always scum read you and never stopped mentioning that I scum read you. It's not a new push for you.

What you said about OMGUS is wrong because it's the exact same situation as what happened early D1 with Andante. I said "I'm not sure about this person" and then you somehow take that to mean that I'm calling them scum. I didn't try to "make it seem less" damning. I've consistently said that I'm not sure about him one way or the other and yet you want to act like I've said otherwise.

Your last point is completely devoid of any evidence to back it up. You seem to just be inventing new reasons to call me scum.

The biggest issue with what you're saying right now is that you've claimed to be suspicious of me since D1 and yet all of your points are recent things that have happened after you claimed to scum read me.
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Post Post #1744 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 6:54 am

Post by AnimatedWiz »

Your posts were scummy D1 and they’re scummy now, too. Just because more stuff has happened as the game has fully opened up D2 doesn’t mean they’re not good reasons and that I pulled them from the aether willy-nilly—my theories make sense as far as I am concerned, and you don’t have much evidence against them, either. The more you’ve posted, the more I find reasons to vote for you, and I don’t think I can be swayed without some truly compelling evidence in your favor.

I don’t think I can convince you of you being scum for obvious reasons, but I hope everyone else here reads all this and comes to their own conclusions about what we’ve said so far.

VOTE: BlackStar.
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Post Post #1745 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 6:58 am

Post by JacksonVirgo »

I tried doing these manually to make it easy to ISO dive everyone and it was painful so I added it to my browser extension to make it easier so here, if anybody has uses for these. Enjoy.
It should be like a combination of two ISOs in one page.

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Post Post #1746 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 6:58 am

Post by JacksonVirgo »

UNVOTE: no hammers before catch up
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Post Post #1747 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:23 am

Post by Dannflor »

I think there is a chance I’m wrong on Blackstar but much less of a chance that I am wrong on AnimatedWiz

If I am wrong I would like to not obstruct a scum elimination

I think AnimatedWiz is making some decent points and comes off as pretty towny in this 1v1

I also thought brightbluebug had a glimmer of towniness so I’m considering a BlackStar/gob/merlyn world instead of a Titus/gob/merlyn world

I also was curious what type of reactions I’d get from voting there, I think Animated’s was towny

Anyway UNVOTE:

I would like Titus to get involved before end of day because I think I can read her
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Post Post #1748 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:23 am

Post by JacksonVirgo »

VOTE: BlackStar thanks now I can jump back on
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Post Post #1749 (ISO) » Fri Oct 06, 2023 7:23 am

Post by Dannflor »

np

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