Open 887: Coalition of Frogs (Game Over)

[Ausuka]

Votecount 1.11

It is currently the Elimination Phase. With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to confirm a coalition. Day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-10-11 14:11:19).

Elimination Votes

Save the Dragons (4)

- implosion, Merlyn, Aristeia, Hero at Heart

implosion (3)

- Save the Dragons, Doctor Drew, RH9

Aristeia (1)

- Bellaphant

Hero at Heart (1)

- TheHoldSteady

Not Voting (0)

Flavour

[Ausuka]

Prodding Bellaphant.

[Aristeia]

i dont feel good about yeeting std nemore

UNVOTE:

[Hero at Heart]

wait what

am really confused now

ari, why?

[RH9]

It's hard to come in and post meaningfully when we are basically at an impasse. Here's what I'm currently thinking: everyone who is one either the std or implo wagon has given their reason for doing so, and recently.

THS, you have had a vote on Hero since Sept 26. That was during D1, you haven't changed it since then. Mala, you have had a vote on Ari since Sept 28th- again, a vote you placed in D1. I think that you both need to either a) make a good case for why four other folks should leave thier current wagon for yours or b) stop sitting on your votes and get on either the implo or std wagon.

(btw, yes I do find it sussy to realize how long you've both been sitting on those votes. I get that the game has been moving slowly but c'mon)

I replaced Mala like a while ago and I'm on implo?

[RH9]

And re: focus on Datisi, I saw that you were SRing him pretty hard in your ISO

...what? This is a wildly inaccurate reading of my ISO. I at no point had a hard scumread or really any solid read on Datisi, I just disagreed with the reasons he was being townread.

My bad, then.
But a quick skim through your ISO genuinely made me think you were SRing Datisi the most.

[RH9]

Also, if you really think that I'm this bad at scum, I'd suggest you look at my previous scumgames.

[Bellaphant]

I'm re reading from 25, snowed means fooled, hero: I sometimes feel I /want/ you to be town more than you are, but I find myself agreeing with you too much!

Didn't the hammer come after I'd already asked about the hammer? Like, that was /the/ conversation?

Page 26 incoming

[Bellaphant]

Ok, merlyn is probably town, which helps narrow stuff down a bit.

I don't see the implosion push at all? I think in this game more than most toy need to be really confident with your trs and this is weak sauce.

Rh9 replacing in and immediately defending std just looks too scummy to be...both scum? Ugh, I thought for a sec that rh had replaced std and was defending his own slot, that's how hard their post made me double take.

I don't have any hard conclusions though.

[Bellaphant]

UNVOTE:

Fuck,.aris 27 was super town too, it's the first thing I've seen that feels out of range?

[Bellaphant]

ok caught up

i like bella now after 357 and recent posting

i like implo i like ari i like hero i like me, it felt right when datisi suggested it (even though he immediately suggested drew instead of bella) and it felt right when hero suggested it

i like this coalition

i think it's a winner

HEAL: std/ari/bella/hero/implo

Ok, so here std says he likes me after 'recent' posting. The posting on this page, two of my posts discuss whether I should hammer.


Than he doesn't know it's the hammer?

[Hero at Heart]

rh9:

do you agree that std has lied about the hammer?

do you know how in a recently completed game (i forgot which), you lied as town and then you basically admitted that you lied? well std has not admitted that he's lying. what do you make of that?

[Hero at Heart]

I'm re reading from 25, snowed means fooled, hero: I sometimes feel I /want/ you to be town more than you are, but I find myself agreeing with you too much!

slightly off topic but:
well you /wanting/ me to be town is probably because i'm a really friendly person naturally. would you believe me if i told you that the first time i won as scum, i've genuinely tried to befriend the town players i was pocketing, and was slightly surprised when the town wasn't happy in endgame about my victory? because this is a true story, sadly .

however, i don't think that has anything to do with why you agree with me - you probably agree with me because we have a similar mindset, considering we're both probably town.

[Hero at Heart]

btw ari, i'm still waiting to hear why you don't feel good about flipping std, but i just want to say that i have a feeling that if std was town then scum would've hammered him already. but maybe i just have zero game state awareness so you're free to disagree with that.

[Hero at Heart]

Page 26 incoming

Ok, merlyn is probably town, which helps narrow stuff down a bit.

wait bella are you tr'ing merlyn for telling the mod she'll stop her from pagetopping or did i misread your post? since that's her only post on page 26

[Hero at Heart]

ok since i'm here all by myself i might as well just say my thoughts

i kinda feel weirded out that nobody is pushing me right now, everyone except bella (which i think is leaning std) and THS (which idk why he's still voting me but hasn't actually pushed me) is voting either implo or std. now i do think std is scum so it makes sense for him to be voted, but i just don't get the votes on implo???? like if i were drew or std i think i would be voting either hero or ari, you know? our previous 1v1 /should/ make both of us look kinda suspect.

the thing is, i see voting hero/ari as both the scum play (easy misfade) and the town play (we objectively look worse after the events leading up to the coalition and then the coalition that failed). so like not voting us doesn't make sense for me for either alignment (from std's viewpoint, mind you - i obviously wouldn't vote myself, nor do i wanna vote ari). can someone who is objective (i.e not me or ari, and also isn't std) explain to me why i'm wrong about this?

[Merlyn]

It's hard to come in and post meaningfully when we are basically at an impasse. Here's what I'm currently thinking: everyone who is one either the std or implo wagon has given their reason for doing so, and recently.

THS, you have had a vote on Hero since Sept 26. That was during D1, you haven't changed it since then. Mala, you have had a vote on Ari since Sept 28th- again, a vote you placed in D1. I think that you both need to either a) make a good case for why four other folks should leave thier current wagon for yours or b) stop sitting on your votes and get on either the implo or std wagon.

(btw, yes I do find it sussy to realize how long you've both been sitting on those votes. I get that the game has been moving slowly but c'mon)

I replaced Mala like a while ago and I'm on implo?

I'm sorry! I mean Bella

[Merlyn]

ok since i'm here all by myself i might as well just say my thoughts

i kinda feel weirded out that nobody is pushing me right now, everyone except bella (which i think is leaning std) and THS (which idk why he's still voting me but hasn't actually pushed me) is voting either implo or std. now i do think std is scum so it makes sense for him to be voted, but i just don't get the votes on implo???? like if i were drew or std i think i would be voting either hero or ari, you know? our previous 1v1 /should/ make both of us look kinda suspect.

the thing is, i see voting hero/ari as both the scum play (easy misfade) and the town play (we objectively look worse after the events leading up to the coalition and then the coalition that failed). so like not voting us doesn't make sense for me for either alignment (from std's viewpoint, mind you - i obviously wouldn't vote myself, nor do i wanna vote ari). can someone who is objective (i.e not me or ari, and also isn't std) explain to me why i'm wrong about this?

I guess my question would be (in the nicest way possible, bc I do like you as a player), does this matter to the game? If you're wondering why neither scum nor town has taken an action, do we learn anything from trying to answer it? It sounds like since neither side is doing it, we won't be able to find town or scum through discussing it.

My answer to this fwiw is that I think that either of you are the easy targets you're thinking of.

[Bellaphant]

Lol no, at hero, It wasn't that page

[Bellaphant]

I just like implo, I don't want to vote there. I get why Drew's voting there but that doesn't mean I think he's right about it. I scumread the other two slots to varying degrees so that makes me uneasy about this wagon. I'm actually pretty happy with my current vote

I dunno, I really like this

[Hero at Heart]

I guess my question would be (in the nicest way possible, bc I do like you as a player), does this matter to the game?

it depends. if someone can show me a scum!std motivation for voting implo over me, it would make std more likely scum. if there's a town!std motivation voting implo over me, then std might be town.
but in general, i think it helps to try and figure out what you /don't/ understand about the game. if you understand everything, then the game is basically solved, right? so if it's not solved then there must be something you don't understand. so the fact that there's something you don't understand could point to the fact that you are not on the right track (or you could be on the right track, but you'd only understand it after figuring the thing out).

for example, in a recently completed game, there was a leading wagon which had very good reasons to be scum. however, i didn't understand why they kept tunneling an obvtown player - this just didn't make sense to me as a scum action. and when i thought of this i concluded that the must be just very frustrated town (which they were). not that it mattered in the end because they got hammered anyway :p

also, i'll take that as a compliment

My answer to this fwiw is that I think that either of you are the easy targets you're thinking of.

i'm not sure what you mean? are you saying implo is as easy a misfade target as myself?

[Hero at Heart]

I just like implo, I don't want to vote there. I get why Drew's voting there but that doesn't mean I think he's right about it. I scumread the other two slots to varying degrees so that makes me uneasy about this wagon. I'm actually pretty happy with my current vote

I dunno, I really like this

ok i get why

[Save The Dragons]

ok caught up

i like bella now after 357 and recent posting

i like implo i like ari i like hero i like me, it felt right when datisi suggested it (even though he immediately suggested drew instead of bella) and it felt right when hero suggested it

i like this coalition

i think it's a winner

HEAL: std/ari/bella/hero/implo

Ok, so here std says he likes me after 'recent' posting. The posting on this page, two of my posts discuss whether I should hammer.


Than he doesn't know it's the hammer?

no im really that dumb

[Hero at Heart]

std why is implo scum?

[Save The Dragons]

because the coalition failed