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[Afrayed Knott]

I made a mistake in not finishing my train of thought, I think your vote was opportunistic yes, I found you scummy before your vote

So you think I was capitalising on a mistake you made by voting you over it? Would it have been more townie in your eyes for me to ignore/not mention the mistake?

Yes, and I am not sure, what reason do I have to trust you?

[Afrayed Knott]

anyway, I am retiring for the night as it in almost 11pm here

[DragonEater70]

What you are scumreading is a perceived fake trajectory in his votes, which is indeed scummy. However, the fact that he had pre-written everything, combined with the fact that he didn't complete his train of thought (which I actually tend to believe) result in his (real) trajectory being completely invisible and obfuscated. So you get the same (scummy) effect regardless of whether he's town or scum, basically.

IDK if it makes sense, words are hard. In my mind it does make sense.

Also I voted Knott for calling you scum over a bad reason, however I think I kinda understand his reason now, thence the unvote.

[DragonEater70]

Yes, and I am not sure, what reason do I have to trust you?

She had every reason to suspect you and her vote on you was not opportunistic. Your thought process was objectively obfuscated. I realize what it was now due to your explanatory posts, but you can't blame anyone for seeing it as scummy (which objectively without the explanation, it did look scummy).

[Cometbright]

there is no way I can prove or disprove this, but it is a genuine statement on my part. If you feel its not then why don' t we use your timestamp comparison------ all my pre prepared posts hit the thread at the 55 to 58 minute to the hour point in time. My vote post occurred at the 11 minute past the hour mark, so some 13 minutes...

I was referring to #407 as the follow-up to #395 (as in the additional clarification you added for why you voted VIP despite him not being in your limpool when responding to VIP questioning it), not the actual vote post itself.

[DragonEater70]

however I think I kinda understand his reason now

Just to clarify, I still think Comet is town here.

[Cometbright]

Yes, and I am not sure, what reason do I have to trust you?

I would say that declaring people scummy for pointing out mistakes you fully know you've made is itself pretty scummy, I don't think trust really comes into it.

[DragonEater70]

Why are mistakes scummy?

[Cometbright]

What you are scumreading is a perceived fake trajectory in his votes, which is indeed scummy. However, the fact that he had pre-written everything, combined with the fact that he didn't complete his train of thought (which I actually tend to believe) result in his (real) trajectory being completely invisible and obfuscated. So you get the same (scummy) effect regardless of whether he's town or scum, basically.

IDK if it makes sense, words are hard. In my mind it does make sense.

I'm not entirely sure if this fully explains it away, I think there's still ambiguity in the whole 'did he or didn't he complete his train of thought' thing but I will sit and think on this for a bit to figure out where I'm standing on it.

I think his subsequent reaction to my questioning doesn't look particularly great though.

[Cometbright]

Why are mistakes scummy?

They're scummy when they're involved with a push/wagon for someone, no?

[Cometbright]

I should say because I'm confusing myself now, Knott is arguing that the VIP vote thingy was a genuine mistake (he didn't finish his train of thought and voted without explaining how he went from Comet/Kitite/TIm to VIP) and not scum-behaviour. I'm saying that from a town!Knott perspective it shouldn't really be scummy for someone (me) to question and vote him over a mistake which he knows could be seen as scum-behaviour. Does that make sense?

[Cometbright]

Like, lets say I posted something which I then realised could be read as a scumslip after someone pointed it out. I wouldn't then accuse someone of being scum if they then voted me over it because even though I know I'm town, I can totally see why they were voting me and wouldn't say they're being opportunistic and therefore scummy for it.

But maybe that's a playstyle thing? What would you do in that situation?

[DragonEater70]

I started to write a post explaining why I think what you are saying in 460 isn't right and started claiming that you see his mistake not as a mistake but as a "slip" (aka mistake done by scum), then it dawned on me.

You are both looking at "mistake" very differently (why the fuck am I a rational mediator in a mafia game? I'm supposed to be a rational mediator IRL and a goofy town player in a mafia game). But anyway:

town!Knott thinks he has done a genuine mistake in that he HAD a thought process, he just didn't write it. He thinks that doing this mistake has no bearing on his alignment.

Comet thinks that scum!Knott did a mistake by not fabricating a thought process (unless I'm wrong and you think that not posting the fabricated thought process is scummy? Then I'm just out of sorts), and clearly that means he's scum, since town wouldn't make that mistake.

[DragonEater70]

Though tbh I don't really want to be a neutral mediator in a mafia game so I'm gonna go write some fiction stories byeeeee

[Cometbright]

He thinks that doing this mistake has no bearing on his alignment.

I feel like I did pretty clearly state why what he did has scum-alignment in #432. Now yes, he can say this was a mistake and that he actually hadn't completed that post before voting but as I said in #433 this isn't something we can confirm is town!Knott realising he made a mistake and clarifying or if it's scum!Knott realising he made a mistake and is now coming up with a reason for it.

I was under the impression Knott also understands why what he did was scummy judging by his acknowledgement he made an error and saying that I had picked up on it. Hence why the subsequent accusation of me being scummy for pushing on it felt off.

Knott, do you understand why from a town!Comet perspective (and even if you think I'm scum here then please indulge me and consider it) what you did might look scummy?

[Cometbright]

I dunno, maybe I'm being too harsh/laser-focused here? It's not like we have anything really that strong to go off so this combined with the statistics I mentioned in #419 and the fact that Knott is going to be a hard read this game makes me comfortable with a vote on him.

Open to people picking apart my case here though - would appreciate others inputs whether it's criticism or agreement.

[fferyllt]

V1.6

Simbi water spirit.

Simbi are spirits who traveled to the New World in the hearts and minds of captive West Africans who were enslaved in Haiti, Dominica, Puerto Rico, and Cuba as well as North America. Simbi are sea, river and forest spirits who can appear as humans, snakes, calabash vines, sparks of fire and mermaid-like creatures among others. They are seen as the guardians of nature and as intermediaries who travel between the physical world and the spiritual world of the ancestors. They also preserve oral histories for those they protect: stories of their ancestors and history. Compared to European fairies who are for the most part concerned with their own affairs and tend to toy with humans who cross their paths, Simbi have deep teaching and guarding connections with their human beings.

Aneninen (2):

usesPython, Afrayed Knott

Afraid Knott (2):

TimmerRC, , Cometbright

DragonEater70 (1):

Aneninen

usesPython (1):

Kittiesecret,

Not Voting (9):

Gimli, Black, DragonEater70

With 9 alive it takes 5 votes to eliminate

Deadline: October 15, Midnight US Eastern Time. Please note this falls on a Saturday and plan accordingly.

countdown: (expired on 2023-10-14 23:00:00)

Mod Notes

• Please let me know if you see any problems with the vote counts
  
• 

[usesPython]

Ok I'm at page 5 of doing a full reread to get a better read on Tim/Knott/VIP:

• Knott is absolutely spitting holy shit get him in the townpool
  
• I kinda really don't like any of VIP's posts
  
• Tim's in the danger zone of

  Our "ew" response tends to come from townposts, scumposts tend to have that headnod effect without ever giving off townvibes

  where he's probably the likeliest of the three to actually be scum

-A

[usesPython]

Page 10:
{Knott}
{Kittie}
{}
{VIP}
{Tim}

VOTE: Tim

-A

[usesPython]

I'll read the rest later, brain is mush rn

-A

[Afrayed Knott]

Now I have had to sleep on it and understand that it was late evening for me during my last posts here. So maybe a hard day at work preparing knowledge checks and then the late night was not a good combination to try to think clearly.

So having read what has transpired here since my last post I do acknowledge and accept why Dragon and Comet have picked up on on my reactions and more pointedly my posts and deemed them scummy. But there is a flip side to the argument as I see it, when you consider it was my side of the argument. I'm not discounting the theory presented around why town Comet would react the way in which she did, but then how would scum Comet react? I'm not sure, as I have very little to go on her. What is her play style like as both town and scum? And having never played her before how could I be held up for not trusting her. Although yes the reasoning is sound, for example in the light of day (literally) most would pick it up, I would too, but regardless of alignment. So why wouldn't a player with experience not pick it up regardless of which camp they sit in?

There is one other thing here that erks me greatly, I have had a scum vibe from Comet for a while and her presence on my list has nothing whatsoever to do with her vote on me. Which I am still of the opinion that if you look at the timings of 1. her picking up on my screw up and 2. Her actual vote, it seems opportunistic as Dragon comes into the chat in between these two actions with his "what the duck" reaction to my vote post. But then you would have to line that up with where her alignment is, and regardless of the fact that a town Comet might pick it up, I firmly believe a scum Comet would too.

[Afrayed Knott]

I dunno, maybe I'm being too harsh/laser-focused here? It's not like we have anything really that strong to go off so this combined with the statistics I mentioned in #419 and the fact that Knott is going to be a hard read this game makes me comfortable with a vote on him.

Open to people picking apart my case here though - would appreciate others inputs whether it's criticism or agreement.

This I just don't get, why would you lim someone as they are a hard read, you are a hard read to me, as are most as I am fairly new to the game, even if you count my last forage into it. To me the only reason I can possibly come up with as to why you would say this is I might be close to the truth with regards to your alignment. I ask anyone, in particular those new to in the game, to tell me they aren't truly struggling to read the more experienced here?

[usesPython]

Still reading but

This I just don't get, why would you lim someone as they are a hard read

POE is a thing, if you have a good amount of townreads then a shrug exe on a null slot's pretty normal

-A

[Afrayed Knott]

POE? might explain why I get lim'd D1 a lot, which is demoralising and frustrating.

[Afrayed Knott]

Is it ok to point at current games to help people get a read on me?