Micro Normal 1092 [Game Over]

[Flavor Leaf]

Yo

[Flavor Leaf]

I did get gut pinged by the table, but i don’t hate their response. It makes sense to have targeted it too, though.

Hold steady voting then unvoting is kinda townie.

[Flavor Leaf]

I did get gut pinged by the table, but i don’t hate their response. It makes sense to have targeted it too, though.

Hold steady voting then unvoting is kinda townie.

OK, stepping back from the game a bit, why do you think that's Scummy?

Do you think it might be possible that a player could be trying to use this table, and start using it early so they can not only get a grip on the game but keep track of their own thoughts? For example if I started posting the table after say 600 posts it's going to be a bear trying to not only make the initial table post but keep up, too. It's like I post a table (and I'm trying to get in the habit of using one all game) and you're over here going "ohmagerd!" Can you not on this? We'll have plenty of opportunities to fight all game I promise.

I don’t think it’s scummy inherently, I’ve done it, but i did instinctively get gut pinged.

I actually think you biting back the way you did is +town.

[Flavor Leaf]

Also that. What scum motivation is there for starting a reads list early? What does scum have to gain from it? It's harder to pull reads out of your ass if you update them all game.

This.

It felt scummy, but there’s no real reason either way for scum to do it or not.

Like I think scum can do it to, and it’ll help their reads look consistent, but i just think RN wanted to make a table cuz they wanted to try something out here, impulsively thought about it, and just went with it

[Flavor Leaf]

He

[Flavor Leaf]

something feel's off with bugspray, but i cant really put it into words yet.

[Flavor Leaf]

but im getting vibes of almost too scummy and out in front of everyone to be scum with their takes, but idk. they could be trying to get an early control of the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't like bug spray jump on.

i did agree with this, so its possible i'm just stuck on it after seeing them continue down the same path

[Flavor Leaf]

Nautical Dawn, Oasisshani

Position	Players
Town-read
Town-lean	Random Nurse, KittyTacky, The HoldSteady, Nuclear Gandhi
Null-town	Skellen (maybe just cuz of their intro remembering me
Null
Null-scum	Bug Spray
Scum-lean	-
Scum-read	-

[Flavor Leaf]

Fixed.

Position	Players
Town-read
Town-lean	Random Nurse, KittyTacky, The HoldSteady, Nuclear Gandhi
Null-town	Skellen (maybe just cuz of their intro remembering me
Null	Nautical Dawn, Oasisshani
Null-scum	Bug Spray
Scum-lean	-
Scum-read	-

[Flavor Leaf]

I liked that Nuclear put everyone on top of town but not starting the table reads list thing.

Im generally that kind of way, but I kinda just put the 4 i had something i liked, and put them at town lean for now, then based everything else around them.

[Flavor Leaf]

I actually think you biting back the way you did is +town.

In a scenario where Nurse was Mafia, how'd you expect them to react instead?

I'm asking because I'm skeptical of this opinion; looks a little like pocketing to me.

they wouldnt be here like this at all yet

im not set in stone by any reads as of yet, but i feel like i have a pretty good sense of RN. I caught them out recently as scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

theyre more background as scum

[Flavor Leaf]

they could be doing that because of that, like a purposeful tactic, sure, but nonetheless, i call out what i see in the present.

it's very obvious pocketing if you think im pocketing that way

[Flavor Leaf]

I actually think you biting back the way you did is +town.

In a scenario where Nurse was Mafia, how'd you expect them to react instead?

I'm asking because I'm skeptical of this opinion; looks a little like pocketing to me.

in addition, why did you feel the need to voice the 2nd part?

I feel like your post kinda looks like scum who wants to prevent townies from finding each other so easily. If you were testing me, i dont see the purpose of bringing it up right now, and it would have been much better to see my response before announcing you think it looked like pocketing. It looks like you wanted to bring it up, but felt the need to disguise it as a questioning.

I don't mind either of those 2 things separately, but you did them together.

[Flavor Leaf]

I actually think you biting back the way you did is +town.

In a scenario where Nurse was Mafia, how'd you expect them to react instead?

I'm asking because I'm skeptical of this opinion; looks a little like pocketing to me.

they wouldnt be here like this at all yet

im not set in stone by any reads as of yet, but i feel like i have a pretty good sense of RN. I caught them out recently as scum.

Remind me which one?

idk one where you were scum with Dunn and Fire. I called you out hard Day 1 as scum, and then I cased you hard again Day 3. I ended up getting misfaded Day 3.

[Flavor Leaf]

im just gonna pocket you and ill be alright

[Flavor Leaf]

i think thats a lot of people.

Way too early solve is One of Bugspray or Ghandi + one of the people in my Null.

Could be Ghandi trying to cut me down early for going on Bugspray, but i think that's too on the nose for it to be true.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor, you reckon this game is too small for a 1-shot Bulletproof?

Not necessarily. I've put 1-shot BP in an 8p game before, just depends on the setup.

Why's that on your mind?

[Flavor Leaf]

it's fair, I'm just voicing what I see back, though

[Flavor Leaf]

i feel like my thought on it is just as valid as your thought on the pocketing

[Flavor Leaf]

odd assumption, but ill move past it.

[Flavor Leaf]

Could be Ghandi trying to cut me down early for going on Bugspray

Elaborate?
Last I checked I had a vote on bugspray.

i dont put much stock in early page voting, at least in the sense that it couldn't be scum voting a partner. But sense I was thinking about possible scum Bugspray, you moving from Bugs to focusing on me is a solid scum/scum move, however, I also said I think it's too on the nose for it to be true, so while I'm bringing it up as a tinfoil possibility, I also specifically put it as probably not happening, so

i think thats a lot of people.

Way too early solve is One of Bugspray or Ghandi + one of the people in my Null.

Could be Ghandi trying to cut me down early for going on Bugspray,

but i think that's too on the nose for it to be true.

[Flavor Leaf]

since*

[Flavor Leaf]

But sense I was thinking about possible scum Bugspray, you moving from Bugs to focusing on me is a solid scum/scum move

Was this part of your original thinking?
To be frank, this feels like an added rationalization to a previous OMGUS reaction.

(not sure what it means in terms of AI to be completely honest)

It is the explanation for the read and it’s basis.

What basis is there if it wasn’t there before?

[Flavor Leaf]

i think thats a lot of people.

Way too early solve is One of Bugspray or Ghandi + one of the people in my Null.

Could be Ghandi trying to cut me down early for going on Bugspray, but i think that's too on the nose for it to be true.

Like this is a pure chainsaw explanation of you, if scum, trying to cut me down for targeting your partner.

I really dunno how you can act like it wasn’t there from the beginning, and it’s starting to feel like you’re trying to force a narrative

[Flavor Leaf]

I can see potential town doing that since it’s early game, people don’t have much to push so they gotta push something, but yeah, it’s looking real forced on your end.

I got confbias, I guess, but still

[Flavor Leaf]

What basis is there if it wasn’t there before?

It felt OMGUSy the first time I saw it.
So when you give an idea that's based on something that I pointed out afterwards, I naturally have question of whether or not it was there originally.

This kind of speculation and wondering about would be avoided if elaborated on thoughts/reads in the beginning.

I mean, what other reason would there be? Imo, it's clearly there.

I'll take the responsibility for assuming players would be able to connect dots when there's only like 3 dots on the paper, though

[Flavor Leaf]

What basis is there if it wasn’t there before?

For clarity, we're still talking about the added part because that's what I asked you about, yes?

Could be Ghandi trying to cut me down early for going on Bugspray

you moving from Bugs to focusing on me is a solid scum/scum move

the first one is pretty classic chainsaw defense.

The moving part doesn't matter to me, I had already said I don't really care about early votes.

But yeah, both posts are pushing it as chainsaw defense, and I had already stated that 'I think it's too on the nose to be true' which you keep conveniently cutting out.

If you're stuck on the semantics issue of the specifics of 'moving from Bugs', then sure, I'll give ya that one. I just dont really care about that part, as stated with the dont care about early votes line

[Flavor Leaf]

You coulda been on anyone, it was the moving towards me part over the bugspray, not the moving from (blank) part.

It just happened to also be bugspray

[Flavor Leaf]

You're also focusing on a reason that I actively threw out, and trying to force a narrative about it like it was some main reason I was pushing.

and at the end of the day, it's page 5. Even if you both ended up being town, that's a damn valid reason whether you like it or not

[Flavor Leaf]

i think thats a lot of people.

Way too early solve is One of Bugspray or Ghandi + one of the people in my Null.

Could be Ghandi trying to cut me down early for going on Bugspray,

but i think that's too on the nose for it to be true.

like you keep actively omitting this line, and trying to act like I'm pushing it as a reason that you two are both scum, when I'm actually making the exact opposite case saying I specifically don't think you two are aligned.

And if you two are aligned, damn, I'm good, lol. I wouldn't catch it right now right now, but the fact I had a feeling of it this early.

[Flavor Leaf]

aligned as scum*.

you could both be town, im not opposed to that idea. it's page 5. nobody's ruled out of anything on the grand scheme of things

[Flavor Leaf]

What basis is there if it wasn’t there before?

It felt OMGUSy the first time I saw it.

So when you give an idea that's based on something that I pointed out afterwards, I naturally have question of whether or not it was there originally.

This kind of speculation and wondering about would be avoided if elaborated on thoughts/reads in the beginning.

this is also you projecting. I SPECIFICALLY stated that I didn't think that was the case, so how is it OMGUS at all if I thought it was specifically not the case?

[Flavor Leaf]

But keep omitting that line, and misrepping it like I was hard pushing you or something, I'm sure that's gonna work out great for you.

[Flavor Leaf]

as scum, if my original thinking didnt have the additional part, why would i say it

like, i would have the original thinking as scum too.

[Flavor Leaf]

I still feel like you felt me calling you out on the performative questioning + pocketing post hit something which triggered this response, but ill let thread develop, since it's too early for me to flood up the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

over time, sure, but it was like posts after and literally the same thing as in my post.

you werent asking for 'evolved reads' you were asking to explain the original one.

now you're really forcing a narrative.

[Flavor Leaf]

big ol misreppin.

question is to me now are you insecure town who got overdefensive or threatened scum when i called you out.

[Flavor Leaf]

But since I was thinking about possible scum Bugspray, you moving from Bugs to focusing on me is a solid scum/scum move,

you're talking about this line?!

You, as hypothetical scum, moving onto me after I brought up potential scumBugs IS a solid scum/scum move. It's a Chainsaw or Hatchet.

I didn't say it was a scum/scum move, it's a solid scum move. If you're town, it's not happening.

Keyword in there is

possible

scum Bugspray.

You're using a hypothetical situation, and me saying that would be a solid play 'as scum', while also saying earlier I do not believe that it is true, and trying to fit a narrative into it like I'm not seeing things from your POV?

[Flavor Leaf]

When I look into it from your POV, you're either town hard misreading things or scum trying to force a narrative (or scum misreading things, I guess is possible).

If you see it as an added reasoning, that's your misunderstanding.

If I look at it from your POV, the same words are there.

[Flavor Leaf]

You're pushing it like I'm the one who needs to change up, but in actuality, it's you.

You used your own assumptions and projected what I was doing rather than just reading it.

I explained my post further, there was zero read evolution from those 2 posts, and the 2nd post explaining is the exact basis for the first one, full stop.

That's literally there is to it.

[Flavor Leaf]

But since I was thinking about possible scum Bugspray, you moving from Bugs to focusing on me is a solid scum/scum move

Was this part of your original thinking?
To be frank, this feels like an added rationalization to a previous OMGUS reaction.

(not sure what it means in terms of AI to be completely honest)

like, this is just me analyzing the the possibility of Bugs/You as scum/scum and if so, would it be a good move? yes.

And that's the basis of why the original thought of you and Bugs as Scum/Scum, as you coming after me for stating Bugs scum, paired you up in the first place. like they are deeply connected despite you being able to understand why or not, i really dont know what to tell ya.

like this is the drop down menu when you click the original and the bullet points that come up from it.

On top of that, end of the day, I specifically said it being too on the nose is why i dont believe it was Scum/Scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

if it is an added rationalization to it, tell me what the original rationalization for it was then?

[Flavor Leaf]

What basis is there if it wasn’t there before?

For clarity, we're still talking about the added part because that's what I asked you about, yes?

Could be Ghandi trying to cut me down early for going on Bugspray

you moving from Bugs to focusing on me is a solid scum/scum move

like these are the exact same thing, and both are hypothetical analysis. The second one is me saying that the first one is a good scum/scum move, because it is, and thats why I SAID THE FIRST ONE IN THE FIRST PLACE

[Flavor Leaf]

Yep. thats what I thought.

As soon as the logic proves it isn't in your favor, you back out and refuse to answer it, but got upset when I 'couldn't see things from your POV'.

VOTE: Nuclear

I feel like your entire posts were performative, and as soon as it started to not tip in your favor, you don't answer questions.

You weren't ready for this Leaf to bring the Beef.

[Flavor Leaf]

if it is an added rationalization to it, tell me what the original rationalization for it was then?

I choose not to be insane today, thank you.
I'll drop my talk with you.

this is just ridiculous, lol

their entire push was that I was adding rationalization, yet refuse to confirm what it was that I was 'adding it onto'

[Flavor Leaf]

I answered the exact same question multiple times.

i answered your question multiple times.

Yeah, pressure on Ghandi here.

[Flavor Leaf]

youre saying bugspray is a slot that shouldn't be left alive until late when they have a total of 9 posts.

[Flavor Leaf]

Another misrep.

I never said cant say anything bad about people with 9 posts, it was the conclusion of not letting bugs be allowed to live late that's ridiculous. Could they be scum? Sure, but you pushed it like a foregone conclusion off of 9 posts.

and now you're trying to twist my push on you around again.

Your entire play is twisting to a narrative to follow your worldview in a performative manner

[Flavor Leaf]

but the dude who literally insulted me.

are you trying to imply i 'insulted you'?

quote where

[Flavor Leaf]

oh the connect the 3 dots thing, i can see it

more a shade at the reasoning you were giving since imo it was and still is pretty cut and dry the same explanation as the base. like, you were trying to spin it differently, yet refuse to state where the original reasoning would be to add the additional onto, when it's pretty clear that they're both essentially the same thing

[Flavor Leaf]

Well, if it’s best for the game to move forward

Everyone can agree,

At least Holdsteady came across townie. I was already lean town based on the RN thing, but I think scum would take advantage of the situation

Knowing that Bugs and Nuclear likely aren’t partners, and that Nuclear stayed on bugs, I definitely wanna cross them off as a potential pairing

Fuck, though, still annoying that that’s what got that started, the entire thing was me saying they likely weren’t partnered, that’s just so much if they were

Now I’ll take a little break, and let people come in, i guess

[Flavor Leaf]

At least Holdsteady came across townie. I was already lean town based on the RN thing, but I think scum would take advantage of the situation

Take advantage in what way?

I’m like help push the pressure on way or another.

In theory, it looks like they scaled the momentum a bit over towards Ghandi, but they pushed it as TvT, which can play the middle ground, but I don’t really see that as the best play. If anything, i was ready to push Nuclear hard, but Holdsteady kinda stunted it.

They like stopped the push on Nuclear but still gave them heat, so i didn’t see it as partnery.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nuke has more posts here than Oassis, Skellen, Bugspray, and KittyTacky have combined. So does Flavor Leaf. Would like to hear more thoughts from those four.

I wouldn't normally think anything of this, but in combination with earlier posts like 27, 45, 47, would maybe count 25 too but it does actually make sense in context with the game in 49, I'm starting to think you're trying too hard to look helpful and pro-town.

Idk if I believe that’s what’s happening, but I can see a world where this was true because this does fit with pushing Nuclear and I as TvT too.

[Flavor Leaf]

Why THS over Nuclear if you scum read them both?

[Flavor Leaf]

Why THS over Nuclear if you scum read them both?

Flavor, what you think about Nautical Dawn + Skellen team?

It’s possible. I could ND trying to pocket Skellen here too, though, because ND going on THS is possible defense for an ND/NG team.

I get the THS case, though, so I’m not opposed letting that have some pressure, but it feels like it’s at the expense of NG pressure

[Flavor Leaf]

That gif was stuff i was watching when i was 4-5.

[Flavor Leaf]

140 from Nuke seemed like he was genuinely upset that he wasn't being understood and the fact that he still hasn't posted since resonates it further. I'm not that convinced he'll flip scum here.

I think RPs reason for pushing me is weak. Doesn't make them scum but I'm sceptical of Leaf, might be conceding to the weak reasoning more easily than I'd expect a player of their experience to do so.

Which weak reasoning am i ‘conceding’ to?

I feel like I said I was lean town reading you?

So explain

[Flavor Leaf]

I even actively called out Nautical who chose to go you over Nuclear while scum reading them both and a wagon forming on Nuclear.

So that statement is cap

[Flavor Leaf]

It means, I see what they’re saying.

Because I’m not someone who invalidates cases on Day 1 like that.

I see it, but didn’t necessarily agree with it.

You coming in and TvTing Nuclear and I is a valid thing for scum to do, so yes, I saw it. Whether or not it’s happening is a different story

In fact, I was leaning more scum on Nautical before your overdefensive ness looking like you were threatened.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not being overly defensive. If I were being defensive, I'd go after Dawn, not the only person who had me on their town reads list. The reason I'm not is, this is about searching for scum and not about defending myself.

It sounds to me like you're entertaining a read that was incredibly flimsy. I would expect a town player of your experience level would have put a cork in such a flimsy, weak read, right away.

Why would I not entertain it?

Also, it’s not flimsy, it’s a solid reason, that I saw even before they said it.

If you’re saying I should be able to automatically town read you within the first 10 pages, you’re delusional

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: HoldSteady

With Enchant claiming Mason, easy switch

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not being overly defensive. If I were being defensive, I'd go after Dawn, not the only person who had me on their town reads list. The reason I'm not is, this is about searching for scum and not about defending myself.

It sounds to me like you're entertaining a read that was incredibly flimsy. I would expect a town player of your experience level would have put a cork in such a flimsy, weak read, right away.

It’s just not a flimsy read, that’s where you’re mistaking. If you’re town, it’s not correct, but on page 10, the reason was solid enough for me to accept it as a possibility. You’re conf bias’ing if town, and acting like everyone should see you as conf town, but you’re overreacting and being overly defensive.

At the very least, damn well worth pressuring you now to see how you react further.

[Flavor Leaf]

viewtopic.php?p=13844749#p13844749

Hu Tao did the same thing you’re doing to me here in this game.

I said “i can see the meta case on Hu Tao, but don’t know if I agree”

Where I was defending the case against Hu Tao, but still saying it was valid

Guess what, was town

[Flavor Leaf]

First you said "I'm just saying its there" and now you've chagned to "I think it's a good case".

And its not a good case.

Explain what the case is

[Flavor Leaf]

Now you're fully committing, and I have a strong feeling you'd only do this if you're scum.

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Why would I ever do anything “only if I was scum”?

That’s just poor scum olay

[Flavor Leaf]

“ Then you didn’t read what I said clearly.

I think the meta case is accurate based off purely my memory, but the application of it, I didn’t necessarily agree with here.”

Deadass same situation, which wrecks your “would only do that as scum”

This happens like every game I’m town in.

[Flavor Leaf]

“ Then you didn’t read what I said clearly.

I think the meta case is accurate based off purely my memory, but the application of it, I didn’t necessarily agree with here.”

Deadass same situation, which wrecks your “would only do that as scum”

This happens like every game I’m town in.

viewtopic.php?p=13845734#p13845734

The link for that post from the other game.

HoldSteady feels like scum who thought they had a decent case to misfade, but got wrecked with meta of me doing the exact same thing as town

[Flavor Leaf]

First you said "I'm just saying its there" and now you've chagned to "I think it's a good case".

And its not a good case.

If a possibility for it being there is valid, then it’s a good case.

They aren’t changed, they’re one in the same

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't know what differently you want me to have done here. Dawn's only case against me was that I responded to the same question three different people asked me three times? That I stopped your seemingly incorrect push on Nuke and asked the people who weren't contributing to post so we had more content? Should I have just ignored the repeated questions? What difference would that have made?

So it’s you misunderstanding the reasoning.

You could have talked about it instead of getting overly defensive and see that we’re on page 10 of a game.

It’s not a bad thing to be wrong, it’s a bad thing to stay wrong by the end game. Pressuring and diving into each slot to get to see where they’re coming from is important, don’t just slam other people’s reads.

The case on you made sense. Did it make you scum? No.

You overreacted hard, and i think it’s worth pressuring you for. Do i think you’re lock scum here?

No, I never lock scum like that on Day 1, it’s stupid to.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: HoldSteady

With Enchant claiming Mason, easy switch

It's obvious fakeclaim lol, i am not idiot to claim my mason teammate.

You falling for it not good look.

How so?

Nuclear had a big wagon on them, and I was in the middle of something

I also don’t know you not to do that tbh

[Flavor Leaf]

And Holdsteady said ‘seemingly incorrect push’ meaning they also thought it was real.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not being defensive. You're the one who turned super aggressive and spammed like ten posts in a row the very first time someone suspects you with six days left, lmao.

Eh, that’s just how I post, I’m a mobile poster.

Did you not see me vs Nuclear? I like the 1v1, and personally, I was ready to pounce, i get adrenaline when the chance of catching scum comes up.

For me, it’s clear one of the two of you or Nuclear slot is scum at this point, though.

Doubt it’s both.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Enchant

Hu Tao was town in the game that this exact scenario happened too, and I can see us as TvT.

But who gives a fuck if people have a case on you and it’s not true. Like it’s still valid. People can’t see your alignment

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: HoldSteady

With Enchant claiming Mason, easy switch

It's obvious fakeclaim lol, i am not idiot to claim my mason teammate.

You falling for it not good look.

This is essentially a scum claim to me by Enchant.

Especially because Holdsteady also thought it was real.

Enchant plays like this towards me when they’re scum, they can’t help it.

Not only did it get me to temporarily move, it also gave Holdsteady support in that 1v1, which helps me see Holdsteady as town a bit there.

[Flavor Leaf]

Dawn's case was basically "hmm, doing TOO MANY town things here"

Like God, I'm scum read for knowing what I need to do to win the game.

It was a laughably weak case and I think you're scum for calling it good.

Nah, you’re being surface level if you think that.

It’s not bad if you are town, it’s solid scum play.

You want us to believe you’re Garbo scum?

Fine.

I think you’re Garbo scum and not doing it. You showed your level of competency with it.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s literally the exact same scenario as the game I linked WHERE I WAS TOWN.

You just seem overdefensive when people can think you’re scum

Noob tell

[Flavor Leaf]

And again, I'm not being defensive. This isn't about me defending myself. I don't care itself that the case was weak. I care that you entertained it and called it good when I don't think you would have if you were town.

It is solid.

If you were scum with Nuclear, and you town/town’d us, that’s one of the oldest tricks in the book.

The fact you don’t know that is a noob tell

[Flavor Leaf]

Like you thinking it’s not a move scum do just shows your ignorance

[Flavor Leaf]

And that you don’t know how to separate a confbias if you’re town.

If you’re scum doing it, then you’re playing it well, but then the case is absolutely correct post game.

And you ignoring the game and meta link where I did the exact same thing as town to town is also net scum for you or ignorant town.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: HoldSteady

With Enchant claiming Mason, easy switch

It's obvious fakeclaim lol, i am not idiot to claim my mason teammate.

You falling for it not good look.

This is essentially a scum claim to me by Enchant.

Especially because Holdsteady also thought it was real.

Enchant plays like this towards me when they’re scum, they can’t help it.

Not only did it get me to temporarily move, it also gave Holdsteady support in that 1v1, which helps me see Holdsteady as town a bit there.

Don't see you voting me for scumclaim you cowardly coward

Alright, you’re blacklisted again. I have like no blacklist, but this is not okay.

[Flavor Leaf]

Do not join my games in the future.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m just kind of sick of it at this point.

Enchant does nothing in games but harp towards me. Yeah, sure, they’re scum a decent chunk of it, but even in their town games.

I think this is just scumEnchant most of the time, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

Do not join my games in the future.

It's last game i join anyway.

This is what happened last time too, but you returned back.

[Flavor Leaf]

And again, I'm not being defensive. This isn't about me defending myself. I don't care itself that the case was weak. I care that you entertained it and called it good when I don't think you would have if you were town.

It is solid.

If you were scum with Nuclear, and you town/town’d us, that’s one of the oldest tricks in the book.

The fact you don’t know that is a noob tell

You already called it town in 146. You can't even keep your reads straight. If you're town please, go back to the drawing board, come up with something different.

I can keep my reads straight as scum. I’m known as being one of the most consistent players as scum.

Town i just say whatever.

[Flavor Leaf]

I actively have to make myself more inconsistent when I am scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

And again, I'm not being defensive. This isn't about me defending myself. I don't care itself that the case was weak. I care that you entertained it and called it good when I don't think you would have if you were town.

It is solid.

If you were scum with Nuclear, and you town/town’d us, that’s one of the oldest tricks in the book.

The fact you don’t know that is a noob tell

You already called it town in 146. You can't even keep your reads straight. If you're town please, go back to the drawing board, come up with something different.

I’m kinda done with you right now, and I’m getting lightweight pissed the fuck off, so chill

[Flavor Leaf]

Like Enchant already knows my thoughts like this against them, and they come into this game, and immediately pull this? Yeah no

[Flavor Leaf]

And again, I'm not being defensive. This isn't about me defending myself. I don't care itself that the case was weak. I care that you entertained it and called it good when I don't think you would have if you were town.

It is solid.

If you were scum with Nuclear, and you town/town’d us, that’s one of the oldest tricks in the book.

The fact you don’t know that is a noob tell

You already called it town in 146. You can't even keep your reads straight. If you're town please, go back to the drawing board, come up with something different.

Me calling it town in 146 is why you’re overreacting when I called it a solid case.

I can think cases are solid while disagreeing and this is the EXACT FUCKING THING THE GAME I LINKED HAD HAPPENED

Get over your self.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like Enchant already knows my thoughts like this against them, and they come into this game, and immediately pull this? Yeah no

Eh. Not really.

I argue with you every game because you always propose something which i hardly disagree with.

And yet I win, and you generally lose with it

[Flavor Leaf]

And again, I'm not being defensive. This isn't about me defending myself. I don't care itself that the case was weak. I care that you entertained it and called it good when I don't think you would have if you were town.

It is solid.

If you were scum with Nuclear, and you town/town’d us, that’s one of the oldest tricks in the book.

The fact you don’t know that is a noob tell

You already called it town in 146. You can't even keep your reads straight. If you're town please, go back to the drawing board, come up with something different.

Like sorry, if you can’t see this, this is a you problem at this point.

I don’t shut people’s cases they want made down, like who gives a fuck

Everyone’s cases are valid, even if wrong.

Some are out there. That one is 100% not. If anything it’s fucking a standard case and THATS the reason it should be considered not good, not that it doesn’t make fucking sense?

[Flavor Leaf]

Like Enchant already knows my thoughts like this against them, and they come into this game, and immediately pull this? Yeah no

Eh. Not really.

I argue with you every game because you always propose something which i hardly disagree with.

And yet I win, and you generally lose with it

I disagree i think rate is 50/50.

Eh, I’ve never seen that.

Rates more like 95/5. I don’t really think I’ve ever lost against scum you without knowing you were scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

I haven’t been wrong, though. You have been scum in every game.

[Flavor Leaf]

And to be fair, i say everyone is scum in like every game, it’s the ones that stay as scum that matter, and i just got your number, so you get all pissy with it

[Flavor Leaf]

I haven’t been wrong, though. You have been scum in every game.

Wait really?

... No i think i was town with you in game. I think.

Probably a while ago, and i probably didn’t push you as scum there long term

[Flavor Leaf]

Dawn's case was basically "hmm, doing TOO MANY town things here"

Like God, I'm scum read for knowing what I need to do to win the game.

It was a laughably weak case and I think you're scum for calling it good.

This also shows that you don’t really know what the case was on you

[Flavor Leaf]

I haven’t been wrong, though. You have been scum in every game.

Wait really?

... No i think i was town with you in game. I think.

Probably a while ago, and i probably didn’t push you as scum there long term

"probably"

Who you gonna kill after me

Probably Holdsteady or ND.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, it’s a surface level pairing with you and HS, so HS probably ends up flipping town, but I still see me at least misfade tunneling one townie this game.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nah. What about Skellen

Neutral on Skellen. If ND is scum, Skellen probs town, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m happy with the votes where they’re at rn.

Don’t worry, we caught Nuclear not you.

[Flavor Leaf]

wait how you have literal 100 posts while everyone else like 10-20

I got in 2, 3 1v1’s that were the majority of this game.

People ain’t posting, and I have a lot of free time at work.

[Flavor Leaf]

Enchant 221 not aging well because 3 for 3 of us thought it was legit

[Flavor Leaf]

I mean, sure, you outed partner, but like, your partner needed to confirm if you were mason anyways if you were to get any sense of credibility. yes, we probably would have moved on from you and let it confirm itself, but yeah.

but i was also in the middle of something else when you said it, and i see mason claim, i move.

you acting like that's not what should have been done is just silly

[Flavor Leaf]

Hilarious that the 2 slots under pressure wanted to come after me

[Flavor Leaf]

I prefer Enchant over Holdsteady, I think Holdsteady just surface reading town.

I could be wrong, though, while I town read Holdsteady, the case against them is STRONG

yes. I’m taunting

[Flavor Leaf]

But Holdsteady’s misrepping of the case against them that I said was solid isn’t a good look.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nautical Dawn
Skellen
Random Nurse
KittyTacky
Holdsteady
Oasis
Bugspray
Enchant

Is where I’m at.

I don’t really have any strong scum reads, so even though Enchant is at the bottom, I’m not opposed to the idea they are town.

There’s probably a scum in my top tiers, but at the moment, this is where my reads are. I expect to be wrong on a town read.

Oasis slot is null-lean town. I kinda agree a little with what Wnchant said, but i also don’t like using replace outs for cases, which is why I’m
Trying to push back the gut ping of Nuclear Scum replace out.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nautical Dawn
Skellen
Random Nurse
KittyTacky
Holdsteady
Oasis
Bugspray
Enchant

Is where I’m at.

I don’t really have any strong scum reads, so even though Enchant is at the bottom, I’m not opposed to the idea they are town.

There’s probably a scum in my top tiers, but at the moment, this is where my reads are. I expect to be wrong on a town read.

Oasis slot is null-lean town. I kinda agree a little with what Wnchant said, but i also don’t like using replace outs for cases, which is why I’m
Trying to push back the gut ping of Nuclear Scum replace out.

I think I understand most of these, but why am I top town?

Why would you understand some of the other ones but not that one?

Youre seeing the misrep of Holdsteady, and you were also putting Nuclear, my main scum read, near the bottom. You’re also asking a lot of good questions and being logical.

In addition, if you are scum, it bodes well for me to keep you close anyways, but I’ve generally been seeing you as town.

I saw a little potential for scum mines a few pages ago, but I’m happy to town read for now and pay the price

Plus, I’m okay with people trying to push me as trying to pocket you, because scum are gonna have to deal with anyways if you’re town

[Flavor Leaf]

I think that’s a you thing. Not a bad motivation, boils down to it at the end of the day.

I don’t play to survive day as Mafia, I think you gotta play to setup game to have one mafia survive more than simply survive day.

There’s a lot of misfades that are just brutal for a scum player a lot of times if they just simply survive day

But my mafilosophy has been evolving and I’m in a weird kind of middle ground with my beliefs with it.

One day at a time is a solid mantra with it, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think it’s not impossible scumHoldsteady thought I was a PR, and went after me, but i don’t really wanna divulge into that further.

Let the scum WIFOM themselves.

Maybe Random and I have the same role, we’re both 1-shot BP.

I’m WIFOM’ing while bored at work

[Flavor Leaf]

I think that’s a you thing. Not a bad motivation, boils down to it at the end of the day.

I don’t play to survive day as Mafia, I think you gotta play to setup game to have one mafia survive more than simply survive day.

There’s a lot of misfades that are just brutal for a scum player a lot of times if they just simply survive day

But my mafilosophy has been evolving and I’m in a weird kind of middle ground with my beliefs with it.

One day at a time is a solid mantra with it, though.

I think difference is that you are mostly proactive so people more likely to question why mafia won't NK you and kill out of paranoia.

I have luxory of being ignorant and surviving in late game better, but early game is.... eh.

It really depends on scum team. Some scum like to keep me around hoping I’ll push townies, some threat kill me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Sorry not 120, I mean 140. Frankly I'm still seeing at as more.of a town rage quit than a scum rage quit but wondering if anyone has different views.

It’s possible.

You give me some TMI vibes with it, but it’s possible.

It’s just WIFOM, so I try to not use it, but they weren’t in immediate danger as town, and if they ragequit off something so minimal as town, idk, mafia probably not the game for them.

[Flavor Leaf]

I just don’t feel purity in the Enchant-Holdsteady duo.

I have a hard time believing they’re both town.

But that also gives me paranoia scum are sitting back and letting them come at me hoping we self destruct

[Flavor Leaf]

I just don’t know who it would be confidently

[Flavor Leaf]

Maybe Bugspray should get some pressure

[Flavor Leaf]

Maybe Bugspray should get some pressure

Why you townread kitty btw

Pure unadulterated gut read

There’s a little bit more to that. I typically think KittyScum has a lot of do nothing kinda weird reads that don’t make sense, and TownKitty, while still not doing too much, i don’t tend to wtf, and i tend not to notice too much.

Kitty was here for a second a bit ago.

It’s not that strong of a town read, though, but enough.

And I’ve been pretty good lately at reading Kitty.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't like bug spray jump on.

I remember this post, and this is pretty standard, and I think they called it out earlier than most.

Bugspray hop on was scummy.

It was the kind of thing that was like “i have the same read, but i don’t like it when you do it.” In regards to Bugspray hopping onto RN. It was also super early, though, but Bugs hasn’t really done anything else since then that was memorable

[Flavor Leaf]

Team of Bugs and Oasis/RN/Kitty probably would be genuine as scum not seeing the Mason claim wasn’t real.

[Flavor Leaf]

Gonna sign both of our death warrants if you’re town, HoldSteady.

[Flavor Leaf]

You could say that about anyone, though. That’s kind of the game.

Micros you get a couple chances really.

Bugspray off wagon, Kop gotta catch up (that’s fair), and RN been on VLA, so really Bugspray is one off the main wagons just kinda sitting back.

[Flavor Leaf]

I would not bet everything on my meta town read, especially only 16 pages in, but theres really not a case for scum them right now. Could be they know Enchant's town, I guess, and then letting me push the slot.

[Flavor Leaf]

Bugspray hasn't done shit in 16 pages, but consistently has avoided prods which suggests at least some tangible level of awareness of the state of the game.

Going to be rough to have to figure out both that slot and Enchant in the coming days if you waste day one mis-limming me because I didn't understand the point Radical Dawn was trying to make until you explained it more.

VOTE: UNVOTE

Agreed on bugs, but I have a hard time believing you genuinely thought some of the things you said about my case. For example, "Dawn's case was basically "hmm, doing TOO MANY town things here" was a completely nonsensical read of my case and served no purpose other than to discredit me.

P-edit: Onions?

that whole section of the game left a bad taste in my mouth for Steady, especially them coming after me the way they did. I'm pretty sold on wanting them or Enchat faded because of it.

And before I hear the classic "they just want to setup misfade chains?!!!" even if we hit town today, i would take the time to reanalyze with new info at the present time, but its hard to know how things feel in the future.

[Flavor Leaf]

i think i semi liked Enchant going on Holdsteady, though, it is a bold and obv scum move if Holdsteady is town, but it is also the counterwagon. while ive gotten a lot of gut scum pings, mainly from Nuclear, and on Ench replace in, that's one thing that gut is pinging town for, but logic and scumplay mech makes sense.

As it was once said, im not fully convinced that they're not T/T. I'm not fully convinced they're not S/S, but I am partially convinced of the ladder.

When Kop catches up, and RN returns, maybe it'll be clearer. I dont think we have that much time, though, we're already near on scramble mode, so I would probably like to end the day on one of them.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don't want to tunnel Steady for that but it's the scummiest thing that's happened all game.

it feels like they're kinda just trying to throw stuff on the wall hoping something sticks, and when i start to see Enchant as townier, Holdsteady comes off a lot scummier than I was thinking before, so im def in like an all around revaluation state. I'll have to let it sit for a bit, though.

[Flavor Leaf]

My preferred lims for the day are Steady, Enchant, bugspray. Preference for Steady, other two have been flipping back and forth in my head a bit.

What figure to

I am obviously town

You haven't said anything about my case and then you voted me. What are your actual thoughts on it?

That if we don't want to wagon someone at last day of deadline just to run in panic when they claim innocent child, we gonna start deciding already.

I want to vote kitty yet no one else cares so i am voting you cuz big wagon.

I don't know that this makes Enchant town but I like them bringing it up, we don't want a deadline scramble.

a little paranoia that that happens to be my 3, but I'm afraid of going Bugspray because it feels like an easy out, but i do see how they could be scum. I think they played a lurk game if scum, and it worked for the reasons being I cant see a good reason to vote them over one of the other two.

[Flavor Leaf]

Am I supposed to read your mind? You literally said "I think you're doing too much to seem town" and now you're mis limming me for quoting exactly what you said.

it's more the fact that you stuck on that exact line rather than look at what they were saying in its entirety.

[Flavor Leaf]

It's the insistence that Holdsteady is one that's right in this situation, when Naut Dawn literally made the case on them that looks like scum agitated they're 'caught for the wrong reasons' and they're trying to make it seem like that's the reason Nautical Dawn scum read them in the first place.

Holdsteady could be bringing up how it wasn't clear to them that the case isn't what they keep trying to push it as 'too townie to be town.

Essentially, Holdsteady and I were arguing earlier because I felt Nautical's '9' was 'good', and Holdsteady told me 'You said it was good, but it doesn't even look like a 6.', and if you are standing on two sides of the drawing, then with just the 2 of us, it was impossible to say who was correct.

But Nautical, the person who drew the '9' was able to come in and say that it was 9, proving Holdsteady incorrect, but Holdsteady is still trying to act like it was a 6. In that situation, he might have had at least at first glance reasoning to hold onto why they thought it was 6. Okay, I can get that a little, it does look like a 6 from that side, i think it was obviously a 9, but alright. I'll give in.

The insistence that they want to argue that it's a 6 from the one who drew it clarifying what it was they were pushing.

Does that make sense?

[Flavor Leaf]

Nothing else has really happened to change my mind. Skellen is my top town read for what its worth

this is also a red flag that looks like trying to pocket someone off their wagon. like i have a similar read, but i dont like it when you say it, lol

[Flavor Leaf]

Let’s just relieve Holdsteady

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: Holdsteady

Go next

[Flavor Leaf]

We got a day and 14 hours left.

Bugspray is okay, I pref one of the other two. There’s been some weird votes like Enchant onto Steady, then Steady onto Bugspray. Both look like “Get off me!” Votes, if that makes sense.

Not interested in Kitty atm.

[Flavor Leaf]

...

At this point I am not compelled to vote for THS. The reasoning is flimsy at best.

My gut tells me both Scum are on his wagon.

I do see Skellen shading THS on more than one occasion. I also suspect Nautical Dawn, although it is my gut speaking to me.

VOTE: Skellen

Explain what reasoning is flimsy, please.

[Flavor Leaf]

Well, Meow

[Flavor Leaf]

We gotta get this going

[Flavor Leaf]

Y’all really like minimizing it the case.

[Flavor Leaf]

Y’all couldn’t just fade the Vanilla Townie.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think both scum are on that Bugspray wagon. If I’m wrong on that, the Nautical Dawn + 1 on Bugs.

I’m leaning RN for sure. They TMI’d Holdsteady hard.

Kop I’m in the middle. They look townie on paper, but I can see potential for scum play there. Solid scum play, though.

Skellen hopped from Holdsteady onto Bugs. Kind of a weird kill if scum. Kind of a weird kill overall, but it implies scum didn’t want to misfade there.

Enchant was a potential counter wagon, so it could make sense to move to Bugs early to try and avoid counter wagon on themselves.

I don’t see Kitty as scum here.

Nautical is planning to come after me if they are scum, I feel, so I’ll be able to figure that out.

Gut is saying it’s RN/Kop right now.

[Flavor Leaf]

KittyTacky

Nautical Dawn
Enchant

Kop
Skellen

Random Nurse

Town

-

Lean Town

-

Light Town

-

Neutral

-

Light Scum

-

Lean Scum

-

Scum

Kind of where I'm at. Scum could be in my light town, but I think it's probably just in RN and one of Kop/Skellen.

There's a world where it's like Enchant/Skellen, which means RN is town. RN would be a frame in that scenario. I can see RN as town in a few worlds, but I just can't shake that Holdsteady TMI.

[Flavor Leaf]

I really don’t feel like that’s a tunnel, I even gave other suggestions and a world where you could be town in. There are multiple.

Feels a bit much. I feel like my reasoning makes sense.

We’re also in a micro game, on page 20, and the you really haven’t done that much, so i don’t really understand the “should be obv town” comment.

You can be town, sure, i don’t think it’s fair to assume I would 100% be able to see that, especially considering we were pushing different reads.

[Flavor Leaf]

I see a big reason for a case on Enchant. Probably the 2nd best other than RN. I just feel like vibe wise, I lean town on them.

@RN - why did you leave Enchant out of your solves?

[Flavor Leaf]

Skellen kill on Holdsteady after THS town read Skellen strong is weird, there are reasons they could do it.

Main thing on Skellen for me is the way they voted Bugspray looks like scum helping it get through.

Scum wanted Bugspray but scum didn’t want HoldSteady or Enchant?

Enchant is Skellen’s most likely partner for sure, so that’s definitely a possibility, and my tinfoil, but i have reasons to town read each of them. I feel like it’s possible for me to town read Scum Enchant, but I really almost always scum read them correctly when they are scum.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nautical Dawn is in a similar position as I am, actually more considering I was pushing Enchant over THS. It just looks like a way to discredit ND, who them and I felt like the main two pushing the game.

So like, I’m also waiting on ND to post before I can really dive deeper into it, because I wanna see where they’re headed.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think we mass claim tomorrow.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think we mass claim tomorrow.

Wouldn't it be wiser to mass-claim now?

We could, but usually when I mention mass claim people get up in arms.

I’m okay with either, tbh

[Flavor Leaf]

There’s merit in both:

Waiting til tomorrow to possibly let PR’s get another action if they have one.

Or

Claim now, take what we have, solidify it, and then holds people.

Both have pros and cons.

[Flavor Leaf]

For me, I think today is Enchant or Random. You know where I prefer, there are some scenarios with the combination of ND/Skellen/Kop, but I’m comfortable enough with ND, and to an extent Skellen right now.

Kop is fine enough, and their solve is a possible solve for me too.

Nautical i expected as scum would put me in a POE, and I kind of feel the same thing but in reverse.

RN saying 2 out of 3 scum on Holdsteady just looks rough.

The difference between RN town reading THS and Kitty town reading them is with Kitty, Kitty came off really genuine, focusing on the slot itself, and RN umbrella’d scum and possibly looked for pushes.

If RN is town, we’re in a rough spot this game.

ND/Skellen is my tinfoil because of that, but THS kill really makes me feel that I’m just being paranoid with it, and Occam’s Razor is they’re both town.

Kop might just be right with Enchant/RN.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m going back and forth a lot, and my gut is pretty good when it comes to RN, and Enchant for that matter, which is points for Enchant town, but idk, I feel they’d be able to swoop around me some time.

[Flavor Leaf]

VOTE: FL

Talks, talks, posts opinions, yet in fact it's all worthless.

1vs1.

Sure. This makes it easier.

VOTE: Enchant

[Flavor Leaf]

I think Enchant just outed themselves.

They can’t help but try and challenge me when they’re scum, and like, they have to challenge or it’s just gg for scum probs.

Best case scenario, they get to misfade me, then move onto Kop/RN, whichever isn’t their teammate.

[Flavor Leaf]

Like, i was kind of just waiting for someone to come after me.

I feel like scum have to come after me here.

I expected RN to come after me, and then ND.

Enchant did come after me when they replaced in, but they likely couldn’t handle the smoke and needed to let it cool.

I really do feel Holdsteady was killed in a “prove FL wrong” kind of fashion, and I think Enchant just showed their hand

[Flavor Leaf]

I think it’s completely telling that the second I start to dip with my Enchant town read, they come after me.

They chopped me constantly in Blood In Utopia, and then they chopped a watcher gambit I pulled and got outed as scum there in the process.

Scum Enchant has to challenge me on a playstyle level and an objective level here.

Enchant/RN feels likely.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor Leaf as mafia posts many, but value of these is low in attempt to dominate thread, not provide and further game. There's like how many designated letters that i am town yet it's seriously considering to vote me. Out of everyone (yes it's why me in disguise, laugh). He doesn't pressure anything, he just posts. He only voted me in response that i voted him.
And defends Kitty hard. I have no idea why, maybe to frame.


Naturally i have sanity to realise i am not going to win this day.
You also probably gonna forget whole thing next day, but atleast i can flex about it after game.

If FL is actual town. Then well, we doomed. Not first time, aye?

I pushed Holdsteady and you all day yesterday. This is factually untrue.

[Flavor Leaf]

And then even last page, I got accused of tunneling (i don’t believe I was)

You’re twisting a narrative hard here.

[Flavor Leaf]

Enchant claims i wasn’t providing anything, but both Kop and ND supported aspects of what I was pressuring.

We have one page and day just started, and you’re upset I’m not tunneling someone basically?

RN claimed I was tunneling them, so how does one of you think I’m tunneling and the other think I’m doing nothing.

I’m also actively going through and double checking to see if I have any gaps, and there are plenty of gaps.

Your timing right when I start to go over worlds where you are town just outs you.

[Flavor Leaf]

I will flip town.

You just want me to be scum here if you’re town. Either way, I think you’re either scum or gonna lose the game for town town.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s kind of a Hail Mary play because you’re now splitting the focus from RN to RN and You, which makes it harder to eliminate one of you.

We should have eliminated you yesterday, but you helped lead the Bugspray wagon.

Im most interested in Skellen’s position here.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think that’s twisted to fit your push, but it’s a good defense.

Biggest issue is, it just ain’t me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Votecount 1.07

TheHoldSteady (4):

Nautical Dawn, Skellen, Enchant, Flavor Leaf

Enchant (2):

KittyTacky, TheHoldSteady

Random Nurse (1):

bugspray

Not Voting (2):

Random Nurse, Kop

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 to eliminate.

Day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-10-05 20:00:00).

And this very much looks like HoldSteady at E-1, not you.

It’s possible you hit it, though, but i don’t remember it ever passing over E-2.

[Flavor Leaf]

Regardless, this 1v1 should be good for reads overall.

[Flavor Leaf]

I'm not convinced this isn't town vs. town. I think there's a good chance that the scum is in the part of this table that hasn't said much yet.

If you are town, Ench, it’s possible Holdsteady got killed to not encourage you and I as TvT.

[Flavor Leaf]

Well, I found that Blood game anyway and I see what you mean.

That one is less so imo, too, they just shut out on that game.

I’ll have to find the other game some time

[Flavor Leaf]

I can't tell.

viewtopic.php?p=13761325#p13761325 Here's a time Enchant was scum and went against me with a lot of boldness, and essentially outed themselves to catch me. This feels pretty similar. I am a little hesitant based on the boldness, it's a bit more than that time.

im a little biased cuz they're tunneling.

[Flavor Leaf]

The whole argument between FL and Enchant is a bit difficult to understand as it feels most of it is founding on previous experiences. Personally I am not really believing in scum!FL, I think he would have chosen other choices in this game by dayplay, also with the nk. As for Enchant, I thought their reaction to RN's vote at the end of D1 felt townie. Gandhi however felt more scummy. I will check the two games FL mentioned though.

@FL:
How does town!Enchant usually approach you or would you expect them to do so?

Town Ench is usually more off on their own thing, maybe shade every now and then, but scumEnch is always like directly challenging.

I feel it didn’t start that way because they had to relieve pressure when they replaced in

[Flavor Leaf]

It would probably help if you tried more with a less pessimistic outlook

[Flavor Leaf]

Part of me wants to unvote, part of me wants to call Enchant’s bluff, and if they’re town, win in spite of them.

[Flavor Leaf]

Part of me wants to unvote, part of me wants to call Enchant’s bluff, and if they’re town, win in spite of them.

You only win this one as mafia because they will continue sheeping you.

Sad but true. Also hey just 30 minutes until you learn if i was bluffing or not.

Anyone else see why this is a scum slip from an Enchant pov who “knows im scum”

[Flavor Leaf]

If you’re town, I really don’t think Mafia have that great a shot at misfading me tomorrow. Like they’ll be able to, but if they come after me, they’re gonna put themselves a bit, and I’ll be able to case.

If you’re town, you’re just self destructing this game, and we have to win in spite of you.

You flipping town doesn’t magically change my alignment.

[Flavor Leaf]

And if you’re town, don’t self hammer.

Simple as that.

[Flavor Leaf]

I came into today pushing RN, not you.

If you flip town, it proves i was likely right with RN.

Imo, who should have been the fade today.

[Flavor Leaf]

You marked your own death with your tunnel.

I’m not scum, and if you hammer yourself, you’re gonna see your foolery in the dead thread.

[Flavor Leaf]

How EXACTLY my death proves anything about RN.

POE.

If you’re town, RN is like 90% always scum here unless the team is like Kop/ND.

If you’re scum, RN can still be scum, but it’s not always.

[Flavor Leaf]

Looks like the trigger that made you give up as scum right there.

You didn’t expect a strong town read on a misfade option.

[Flavor Leaf]

Your gambit almost worked.

[Flavor Leaf]

I mean, that’s fair.

But I still have just as much chance at rolling town as everyone else.

If you’re town, i feel like you just want me to be scum, so you’re warping the game to fit that mindset.

Alternatively, you’re scum trying to wiggle out of the situation you’re in. It was a decent stab to try to take me out, though.

Kop/RN team is making me paranoid. Their absence makes me feel like they just wanted you to hammer.

But I’m in a rough spot cuz now I’m like half falling for what ScumEnchant wanted to happen here and move onto another one.

[Flavor Leaf]

Your slot and RN are the crux’s of the game right now, and while I would like to hit scum 2 days in a row, i think scum team is going to distance themselves, so this game probably goes to 3p ELO.

Spicy.

[Flavor Leaf]

Skellen, Kop, ND, or RN.

What you mean

[Flavor Leaf]

I already talked about how I tinfoiled a Skellen/Enchant team, I can see Kop distancing from you but keeping you in it, i can see you with RN needing to make a Hail Mary, and ND could be bussing.

[Flavor Leaf]

Kop/ND is like the only team I see that doesn’t involve one of Ench or RN.

I don’t think ND pairs up with Skellen the way they have, and if ND/Skellen is the team, they’re playing to pocket me to victory.

[Flavor Leaf]

Suspect or see it as a possibility.

I don’t really suspect ND that hard, or Skellen for that matter, but I see the possibilities.

Kitty I can peg as scum harder than I peg you.

[Flavor Leaf]

That came off poorly.

I can catch Kitty as scum easier than i catch you as scum.

With you, i go back and forth doubting if it’s just you being town challenging for the sake of discrediting or not, but Occam’s razor you’re just scum making a bold gambit to try to turn the suspicion onto me.

I think you’ve realized the gambit didn’t fully work, and you’re backpedaling to try and get me to town read you now, and turn it onto Kitty.

[Flavor Leaf]

Alright, I think Enchant is just scum and getting me to argue back and forth with them

I’m gonna try to step away

[Flavor Leaf]

Alright, hammer Enchant.

If RN ain’t even gonna be here

[Flavor Leaf]

Go to night and RN’ll be back when we are

Dunno what “nobody listening” is referring to.

Most people had RN’s semi solve in their POE, and I moved from RN to Enchant.

RN/Enchant scum team.

[Flavor Leaf]

Time to mass claim.

[Flavor Leaf]

bugspray

(5):

TheHoldSteady, Enchant,

Skellen, Random Nurse, Kop

Enchant

(4):

KittyTacky,

Flavor Leaf, Nautical Dawn,

Enchant

Interesting that all 5 alive have been on exactly 1 misfade. I think I'm gonna do some VCA.

[Flavor Leaf]

Skellens the only one that was on the Enchant Day 1 Wagon, Holdsteady, and Bugspray. 3 that ended up being all town.

RN/Kop ends on Bugspray on Day 1, and yesterday, they were the 2 most absent. It did go by decently fast, but it still kinda feels like they were waiting. I wish Enchant didn't self hammer, and we got to see one of the other 3 hammer.

ND has also been pushing behind, like they got the wagon on Holdsteady through, and then they helped push Enchant. I can see them being possible scum, but I dont really think it would make sense for them to be with Skellen, who is the immediate thought of their partner. They've connected themselves too much to Skellen imo, so their most likely partner would be with one of RN/Kop if scum.

I remember thinking Bugspray had both scum on it based on how that went down, but ND's the only one on the Holdsteady from Day 1 and Enchant Day 2 with me, and they both flipped town.

Skellen, im kind of town reading despite being on all 3 of those wagons I mentioned. I just think that in addition to their comment of the gamestate being weird is townie.

Conclusion: It's some combination of ND/RN/Kop.

ND/Kop is a strong team here. It makes sense why Kop would sit out yesterday if ND was on Enchant and is their partner.

[Flavor Leaf]

ND/Kop - Explained above.

RN/Kop - Semi distanced yesterday, both were at the end of Bugspray wagon, this team avoided Enchant almost entirely, and I wish Enchant let one of them hammer. The way the interacted with the game yesterday reeked of scum getting in their two cents and letting townies disrupt each other.

RN/ND -Kind of similar to ND/Kop, but with RN. ND was hard pushing Holdsteady, and RN took the opposite approach. Holdsteady wasn't a big misfade choice for RN, and I think Holdsteady death directly created an Enchant vs FL. And ND helped push it from behind.

I can't really choose which one I think is most likely because I have been town reading ND, but I might be in a little bit of a pocket. That being said, it makes me lean RN/Kop but when I lean RN/Kop I think I'm getting worked by ND.

[Flavor Leaf]

So I'm a 1-shot Weak Friendly Neighbor. Targeted Kitty Night 1.

W

ell, if it’s best for the game to move forward

E

veryone can agree,

A

t least Holdsteady came across townie. I was already lean town based on the RN thing, but I think scum would take advantage of the situation

K

nowing that Bugs and Nuclear likely aren’t partners, and that Nuclear stayed on bugs, I definitely wanna cross them off as a potential pairing

F

uck, though, still annoying that that’s what got that started, the entire thing was me saying they likely weren’t partnered, that’s just so much if they were

N

ow I’ll take a little break, and let people come in, i guess

One of my last posts of Day 1 in case I died people would know I targeted Kitty.

Well, Meow

Multiple times Enchant kept talking about my absurd town read on Kitty. A lot of times, I just thought they were role fishing me.

Kop or ND, at least one of them being scum here is entirely apparent, if not both. The kills were smart. The dayplay has been smooth for them. Either of them can be teamed with RN instead of each other, but it's clear it's at least one of them, which really takes Skellen out of the running almost always here.

[Flavor Leaf]

Nautical Dawn:

I DO find it curious why she placed her vote there, devoid of reasoning, and has left it there ever since. I wonder if she's lining up lims, considering she's already mentioning who she's wanting to lim Day 2.

I put it there as a joke and didn’t bother to move it because I haven’t decided where I want to vote for real. I can unvote for now though.

UNVOTE:

Took me a minute to figure out where you got the Day 2 thing, by “tomorrow” I meant irl-tomorrow and not D2.

I don't like this unvote manner, it feels too much like trying to appease.

Why THS over Nuclear if you scum read them both?

I scumread them about equally, THS is just where my focus is right now, plus they haven't had much pressure yet and I'm curious how they react to it.

If you scum read them equally, surely you push all slots in order to try gain a better read, rather than sitting on one waiting to see how they react to pressure?

You all are looking at this at the wrong angle. I was scraping at something to help us get out of RVS because everything posted before the table told us absolutely nothing.

I saw someone else voted RN before me, but I didn't realize it was the same person voting twice. That's why I was like "RN is already at E-2, I'd better unvote to make sure we don't end this prematurely."

Figured that you counted both bugspray votes, my question was more concerning what made you think RN could have gotten voted out already at page 2 at alleged E-2? Felt iffy with bugspray's vote or something else?

It's just a bit odd that you said like three times on this page how you have to scrape something to get out of RVS when you did the instant backwards roll, even doubling down with 27 which kind of weakened your attempt immediately.

+town and I like what you're getting at here. Once is nothing out of the ordinary, three times is overkill.

This is bewildering to me

You all kept asking "THS, why the table?" and I kept re-explaining and then I'm scum for explaining it too much?

I don't know what differently you want me to have done here. Dawn's only case against me was that I responded to the same question three different people asked me three times? That I stopped your seemingly incorrect push on Nuke and asked the people who weren't contributing to post so we had more content? Should I have just ignored the repeated questions? What difference would that have made?

I don't scumread you for "explaining it too much," I scumread you because you made a series of posts that looked to me like you were overly concerned with looking towny.

You've also made it out like a bunch of people were questioning you when that's not what happened. For example, all I said was that the table was NAI, but the response was this:

It might not be but you have to start somewhere or else we're going to waste several days not doing anything.

This response feels defensive as you've already explained your view and my post wasn't even saying anything about you.

I guess the timing of 46 kind of looks like it was directed at you? Did you think it was? It wasn't. It makes a little more sense if you did think that though.

Dawn's case was basically "hmm, doing TOO MANY town things here"

Like God, I'm scum read for knowing what I need to do to win the game.

It was a laughably weak case and I think you're scum for calling it good.

Literally no one bases a scumread on "they did too many town things" and this isn't a good-faith representation of my case even if you are town.

What does towny look like? I've seen cases pushed based on he's trying to hard to look towny and it's not a good enough reason for me personally to think their scum because they are trying too hard to look towny.

Y’all really like minimizing it the case.

looking back, this post by Kop looks rough. If they're scum, ND town, it's hard minimizing the case ND was making. If they're scum/scum, it's pure scum theatre and picking the other side of ND's post, so I think Kop is always just scum here. They also weren't around much yesterday, and said the team was RN/Enchant probably, but then was mia during Enchant push.

[Flavor Leaf]

This game has so weird kills. My secret take was everyone who genuinely bought into Enchant's fake Mason claim might have slipped being VT (if town), yet scum targeted exactly in these. It's not that Kitty was that hard to vote out, I think only FL and later me had him as town? So maybe low info kill and scum doesn't want to risk to reveal too much hitting elsewhere? Anyway, the kill choices seem to come from a defensive mindset imo.

Funnily I was about to go hard against FL if he would have claimed a pr for reasons above, however his claim is actually... quite good I think. It looks pretty plausible to me and it goes well hand in hand with Kitty reinforcing that he is sheeping FL on Enchant next day. Thinking about it, ironically scum might have interpreted that as Kitty having an inno on FL. That scenario might as well reinforce the plausibility of FL's claim.

I think the only question that comes up for me why did you target Kitty? Weren't you townreading him on D1 anyway?

I wasn’t trying to die, and it was all really gut on Kitty.

It was also early Day 1, and the Bugspray wagon happened fast, and I didn’t want to muddy my crumb up with the Weak modifier

[Flavor Leaf]

Kop or ND, at least one of them being scum here is entirely apparent, if not both. The kills were smart. The dayplay has been smooth for them. Either of them can be teamed with RN instead of each other, but it's clear it's at least one of them, which really takes Skellen out of the running almost always here.

I can follow your train of thoughts about most things you said, what takes me out here though? I mean, I get your townread, but why makes it unlikely for me to be teamed with Kop/RN?

The partner tinfoil I had with you was Enchant.

I don’t really see you killing Holdsteady this game.

It was kind of a dumb kill if you were scum to kill Holdsteady, and i don’t really think scum has been ‘dumb’ this game.

Plus, if you’re scum, it’s probably with Kop or ND.

i think ND pocketing you as scum makes much more sense than you pocketing ND that hard or ND and You being scum together.

[Flavor Leaf]

RN/Kop seems like the most likely solve to me on first sight. It feels so strange, because it would basically mean scum were pretty passive through the whole game while town simply killed each other.

I was hard town on ND for the simple reason that my personal rule of thumb is if another player has independent of yourself often the same observations or is triggered by the same things then this person is simply just as well town. Also no real motive for killing THS, that Enchant would turn so strongly against FL next day wasn't really a thing to expect. I feel I need to review her, because elo and due to the Enchant elimination happening so fast. It really didn't helped, that town selfhammered here so early.

This.

I think Holdsteady was killed so people would go onto Enchant, not Enchant on to me.

Because I was pushing Enchant slot throughout Day 1.

This also makes me look bad after Enchant and I go at it.

Kop/RN both hopped onto Bugspray at the end, and RN somehow knew Holdsteady was town, and in a different way expressed than Kitty did.

I can scum case all 3 of the others without really trying.

You, I have to try. And Occam’s Razor, you’re town.

If you’re scum, you played 4d chess, and I don’t really believe that you did here.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think scum distances today, hoping for a victory, but preparing for 3p Elo.

One misvote on me, or the wrong townie of the 3 of them wins the game for scum, so take this day phase slow

[Flavor Leaf]

I just reread RN’s ISO, and I actually thought it was a lot scummier than it was, but really only the read on THS pinged me, but I can see them doing that as town too, so I don’t think it’s enough for me to really say they’re scum for sure here.

[Flavor Leaf]

Kop’s one post of Day 2 reinforced the idea I should go for Enchant.

@Skellen - both Kop and ND cleared you yesterday and pushed towards an Enchant/RN mindset.

Hmm. I can see worlds where Skellen is scum on a logic/mech side of things, but gut wants to ignore it

[Flavor Leaf]

Who has claimed so far?

Me and Skellen.

[Flavor Leaf]

You, Kop, and ND are unclaimed

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t like that they claimed to have roleblocked you both nights either

You were the one that had claimed. Feels safe.

But i don’t actually hate setup of Lazy RB with Doc and Weak FN.

I could have gotten a fake inno/guilty if I were RB’d.

I think scum with a strongman shot is balanced probably against this team.

Considering i could die and if RN is telling the truth, then Lazy gutters him if I get a guilty.

But like a Scum Roleblocker also makes sense against doc and Weak FN.

[Flavor Leaf]

Idk, i keep going in circles when I try to analyze. It can be any combination of the 3 of them.

Kop just feels the most agenda-based and if you see that from the perspective of them just following ND’s lead, then I think Kop/ND make sense as scum.