Open 887: Coalition of Frogs (Game Over)

[RH9]

but he's still in my scumpool, unless I'm wrong on Merlyn/you/Ari.

elaborate?

In that, I had Merlyn/Ari as nulltown and you as town.
implo was nullish after STD's flip and the NK, so he's in the PoE for me with Bella.
And I'm probably going to reevaluate my reads today since implo has actually been pretty consistent in his reads and there have been some times I've agreed with him. (Mainly on you.)
P-edit: Yes. Soon.

[RH9]

@mod V/LA every weekend

In case I haven't said this earlier.

[RH9]

@mod V/LA every weekend

In case I haven't said this earlier.

[RH9]

Oops.
Doubleposted.

[implosion]

Don't you all think that scum would've seen that supporting STD was a bad move?
Have you all not considered that most of you are getting confbiased and are trying to filter things to fit your worldview?
All simply because you were right D1?

I think it's perfectly cromulent that you as scum in particular could have replaced in, seen that it's unlikely you're winning the game if STD goes down d1 in the context of you two being pushed as a team, and decided to hard defend. It's not like scum never hard defend each other and you might have seen me as a viable alternative.

I don't really understand RH9's defense of himself if he's town. He keeps saying he wouldn't have played the way he did as a brute fact, because scum don't play that way or he played differently in a past scum game. And like, that weird argumentation isn't scum-indicative per se from him. Mala's coalition vote is just so bad though, I think the bulk of my read on the slot is from her play. I disagree with Ari about Mala's posting toward Datisi, I think her early posting makes plenty of sense as distancing in the context of this setup where scum can pretty inconsequentially distance pre-coalition and 114 doesn't really feel hard to fake to me. I do agree RH9 feels sort of vaguely limbaity though.

[implosion]

Ari, how do you feel about 835?


I agree 232 is probably a very hard post for Drew to make as scum.

[implosion]

Uh.
To point out that implo knew my meta well enough that the possible scenario would be ludicrous to himself and thus, town!implo might be more willing to rethink things?

I also just, want to belabor this point, because, well, I just have to.

I do not "know your meta" well. I remember having played one game with you as scum (i think? I assume you're referencing that one guardians of the fortress game from whenever it was) but probably wouldn't have remembered you were scum if you didn't say it, at least off the top of my head. I did not remember that you had hard bussed on replacing in. You hard bussing on replacing in does not mean that you will always hard bus on replacing in or that you can't hard defend your scumbuddy on replacing in and I have no idea why you are implying that your "meta" is to always act the same way in every game you play as scum and that i should know this based on one game you played in a wildly different setup where bussing is heavily incentivized because you have no control over scumbuddies' fates.

[Aristeia]

Ari, how do you feel about 835?

i have played with hero when he was mafia and I think your reasoning does not apply to him at all

[RH9]

Uh.
To point out that implo knew my meta well enough that the possible scenario would be ludicrous to himself and thus, town!implo might be more willing to rethink things?

I also just, want to belabor this point, because, well, I just have to.

I do not "know your meta" well. I remember having played one game with you as scum (i think? I assume you're referencing that one guardians of the fortress game from whenever it was) but probably wouldn't have remembered you were scum if you didn't say it, at least off the top of my head. I did not remember that you had hard bussed on replacing in. You hard bussing on replacing in does not mean that you will always hard bus on replacing in or that you can't hard defend your scumbuddy on replacing in and I have no idea why you are implying that your "meta" is to always act the same way in every game you play as scum and that i should know this based on one game you played in a wildly different setup where bussing is heavily incentivized because you have no control over scumbuddies' fates.

Fair point.
(It was the GotF game, which you and Ari were both in.)

[RH9]

I think I'd go for Bella today, then.
VOTE: Bella

[RH9]

Also,

@mod V/LA every Thursday

[Hero at Heart]

i have played with hero when he was mafia and I think your reasoning does not apply to him at all

it's funny because i think that when i was mafia with you, i read the gamestate perfectly and bussed my partner hard on the day where it was obvious they would flip. and i'm pretty sure that won me the game since both townies in 3p elo were planning to vote each other.

i think as scum i would've hammered std rather than saying "i'll hammer in 10 hours"

[Hero at Heart]

and i also think that as scum i would've made a proper push on you day 1, i think i had plenty of opportunity to position that push but i did not take it because, as town, i was not thinking in terms of positioning myself but in terms of finding scum.

[Aristeia]

pushing me doesn't help you win the game if you're teamed with STD because it only shrinks the limpool

[Aristeia]

I can't help but feel like it would have been much easier for Datisi to simply support me in pushing you d1 if he wasn't partnered with you

[Aristeia]

like everything he did d1 just makes sense if he is teamed with you

[Aristeia]

if they wanted not to bus they could have easily justified voting me over STD at any point

I think when you play two scum in a pool of five you pretty much have to bus at some point because it is incredibly difficult to mislim every one of the other three townies. The question is like

when

do you bus and

why

do you bus.

let's look at H/H's progression post coalition failure;


this is vote#1 on Datisi/STD 556


Merlyn follows at 560

what is hero doing?


554 apologizes to me for being wrong - like um isn't this just hoping I don't come after him for being wrong? also if i'm a suspect to him why is he apologizing to me?


566 "ok being wrong on the coalition and having the possibility of either ari or std being scum really sucked my wim, so i am probably going to check out from the game until friday (when i estimate i will get a wim boost)"

feels like he's trying to feel out if there's any support for pushing me - notice here STD is already at 2 votes.


so at 581 I vote for STD which is vote#3


and at 587 he votes for STD saying that if i'm scum he'll cry

I feel this is just performative? like if he really thinks its between me and STD what has he actually done to sort our slots atp? If I'm mafia and std is town why

wouldn't

I be voting for STD and pushing that easy lim through?


then 590 is just ??? like why is that even the bar for Implosion? Implosion thinks STD is mafia, he doesn't need to accurately townread every other slot in the game to do it?


then he revotes STD at 618 which again is nonsensical to his original progression on me/STD having 1 mafia out of us and he has to make a decision between the two of us because now he says its because implosion is town and lining up kittens as the next flip. 619 he claims its because his hammer retraction is really weird?

[Aristeia]

and i also think that as scum i would've made a proper push on you day 1, i think i had plenty of opportunity to position that push but i did not take it because, as town, i was not thinking in terms of positioning myself but in terms of finding scum.

also like i kind of feel like you did fish for a wagon on me by saying you couldn't make up your mind between me/std but once it was up to three votes on STD you just started running him over with a bus over and over

[Hero at Heart]

wow your reading of me is wild

idk what to say honestly

i just think seeing my actions in the light you are presenting it is very... improbable?

i really have nothing else to say

[Hero at Heart]

can't you just believe i just wanted to be town with you and datisi really bad after last game, and that all my towntunneling on dats / saying i would cry / having my wim sucked from one of you being scum is a result of that?

[Hero at Heart]

because it's the truth

[Hero at Heart]

554 apologizes to me for being wrong - like um isn't this just hoping I don't come after him for being wrong?

not really? in the early game you mentioned not liking my super-confidence that datisi is town and i construed it as you being somewhat annoyed with my behavior, so when i turned out wrong i wanted to apologize. this is like, social interaction for dummies.

idk if you noticed but i play this (specific) game based on my heart not my brain. i actually planned to call this alt just "heart" but the name was taken so i had to settle for "hero at heart"

[Hero at Heart]

can't you just believe i just wanted to be town with you and datisi really bad after last game, and that all my towntunneling on dats / saying i would cry / having my wim sucked from one of you being scum is a result of that?

wow i feel embarrassed to have said that

kill me pls

[Aristeia]

not really? in the early game you mentioned not liking my super-confidence that datisi is town and i construed it as you being somewhat annoyed with my behavior, so when i turned out wrong i wanted to apologize. this is like, social interaction for dummies.

ok but how did you even know at this point that datisi was mafia

[Hero at Heart]

no, i apologized for being wrong on the coalition in general

and i also did have a gut feeling it was stdatisi after the coalition failed