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[DragonEater70]

I am intrigued about your 2 scum reads

[DragonEater70]

Hi so this game where black was scum just ended: viewtopic.php?t=91649

I skimmed that game back when it was in Day 1 and Black stood out to me as scum. So that makes me feel slightly better about my scumread of her this game.

Also, please don't murder me if I'm wrong because this was some weeks ago, but I do think Black's treatment of Comet here is reminiscent of her treatment of Aureal in that game. If you really want me to I might check it again later today to really compare.

[Afrayed Knott]

HI all, Down with Covid and have decided to stay in this game for now as I at least have a read on the game. I’m sticking with my thoughts from D1 as they are all I have to go on. I really feel that Black and Tim are where we should look. That whole interaction as Tim’s wagon grew and the vote by Black then Tim enters the chat almost immediately, with that AtE set of posts and Black then removes their vote. Followed by similar interchanges. Tim’s change from being “oh I don’t know what to think, I am lost blah blah blah… then towards the end of D1 Tim becoming more pushy? Smacks of collusion and some back room coaching in my inexperienced opinion.

On Python we should focus on their reads because I strongly feel they hit a nerve.

VOTE: Tim

[DragonEater70]

Python is dead

[DragonEater70]

Or did I misunderstand what you meant

[Afrayed Knott]

You misunderstood, Towards end of D1 Python made it very clear where we should look. So we should start there

[Afrayed Knott]

809 and 819

[DragonEater70]

Oh I see

I thought they were killed for being obvtown, so your saying they were killed for reads is interesting.

[Afrayed Knott]

Yes the reads, but Possibly both, but I had them as null tbh. although in retrospect and now knowing what we all know, someone could hide behind putting them down as an obv TR..

[Afrayed Knott]

I think the line in 809 is quite telling.

[Afrayed Knott]

Anyway back later, I have a brass band to extract from my head

[Aneninen]

Dragon, let me brief my "case" on you first.

(1) A lot of "about Mafia in general", which is giving town-vibes by nature, but, actually is not an alignment tell.

(2) Things like this:

ask yourself "if DE is scum that just got attacked for not having original reads, is he really going to do what he is doing now?"
The answer is no because DE is a fucking bad scum player. I have 25% winrate as scum on this site, unlike Black who has roughly 100% winrate as scum. Just as a rough estimate.

In other words, you've kept telling us that you can't be scum because you're terrible at being scum.

(3) Also, you DID have a lot of original reads. Technically, you DID have a scumcase on almost all of us. Which I saw from scum before a lot of times. It was (is?) called "throwing mud at the wall and see what sticks".

(4) Kittie, I hope you're reading now. It's NOT the fact how many times Dragon voted. It's the fact that he ended up hammering Gimli - literally the only player he hadn't voted for before!

Spoiler:

Dragon's votes: Python, Knott, Comet, (Unvote), Kittie, Aneninen, Kittie, Black, (Self-vote), Aneninen, Knott, (Unvote), Timmer, Black, (Unvote), Gimli

(5) Your whole attitude around and since the hammer. E.g., 826, 840 (backpedalling on the Black case, which was actually not half as bad as you stated, what if making room for the Gimli hammer in your progression.), 861 (!!! - terrible vibes), 863 (!!! "I can't believe I threw like that." - about the hammer), 866, and 872 with "Or alternatively, if someone has a guilty or a hot scumread, let me know.", which suggest that he knows more about the Setup than we do.

BUT.

There's a big BUT which consists of two parts. One older and one newer. I'm not talking about that yet, but it's still there and it makes me more than hesitant to vote for Dragon today. And this BUT makes me saying, Dragon's "too scummy to be scum".


Post-edit.
I haven't read the new posts yet, but Timmer's forking town. I'll search for one of his posts soon which tells me why.

Plus, my actual scumreads are coming soon, too.

[Aneninen]

So.

Who I think the scum are.

(1) Knott.
Let me not repeat half of my late Day-1 posts about this. But there are some new things.

I feel Black and Timmer for definite. And then one of you or Gimli

For the question who the scum are.
Not only the fact that there are only 2 scum in the game. I'm sure it was mentioned before a couple of times. I'm lazy to dig it up, but I remember giving answers like "partner speculation on Day1 is bad", and there were other mentions too. So, either it's blatantly fake or Knott wasn't reading at all. (Interestingly, he was reading it enough to give reasons for voting for Timmer or me.)

My vote on Back was a genuine failed attempt to lure a hammer onto Gimli and prove my point that Black and Tim are the scum team. which I still maintain.

What the actual fork this meant?

Question: why is python going after the more experienced players and not the newbies? is it to make the game easier later?

Whut?
Python are dead. What if they were just... reading the game?

Down with Covid and have decided to stay in this game for now as I at least have a read on the game.

Get well soon!

Meanwhile, I'm moving to my next scumread.


(2) Black.
I told you on Day1, too, that I hadn't gotten why she'd been townread by most. I also pointed it out that her posts had had much less content in them than it had looked like.
As I said in the previous post, Dragon's case in 701 wasn't that bad, even if he took it back later, but:

Black's posting has been designed to stop as many wagons as possible from occurring, so as to get town to give up and just drift into not solving the game and doing a random compromise vote.

is more like
"Black's trying to be away from all the Mis-Elim while hoping that the town does all the dirty work for her."
When I was trollhammered, she jumped off my wagon and avoided me like plague. Then she usually tiptoed around wagons clearly not reaching Elimination. (Correct me if I'm wrong, but when she jumped on the Dragon wagon my vote had been already elsewhere.)

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand

if you have time,

just check the whole Knott-Black interaction!!!

They keep some "healthy" distance, Knott was putting some vote on Black when it was safe, but among other scumreads so that he could pick another name from the list in case of danger. And for some reason, they were after Timmer.

So,

Also, please don't murder me if I'm wrong because this was some weeks ago, but I do think Black's treatment of Comet here is reminiscent of her treatment of Aureal in that game. If you really want me to I might check it again later today to really compare.

If you have time, that would be of great help.
Personal meta is always more valuable as second-hand.


That said,

VOTE: Black

[Aneninen]

As for Timmer, THIS is the post:

Now THIS feels like fucking mafia.

We know that he's from another page.
And he posted this when suddenly the game-pace started to increase.
What I can see is a townie who was frustrated because of not being able to get some reads - and who got excited when the gamestyle changed into the direction he was much more familiar with.


I have no idea why Python were Nightkilled. I considered them obv-town, but the most of you didn't share this. Regarding their reads, besides Gimli, there were Black, Timmer and Me (and sometimes others) - so it would be quite a tinfoil if I told you I could see Black picking them because of their reads, I guess... Let me tell you if you see more there.

[DragonEater70]

What's even the point of this case, VIP, if you are just gonna say you aren't scum reading me at the end?

Anyway, saying I'm throwing mud and see what sticks in a scummy way is a weird take. I voted Python and Knott but then I reconsidered and called them town quite strongly. I think there's merit to suspecting everyone as town and seeing who handles the vote well and who reacts in a scummy manner. So far the only people who omgused me are Tim and Black, IIRC.
I agree my vote on Gimli was poop and I regret it whenever I look at this thread, but yeah.

[DragonEater70]

This was written in response to 886, to be clear.

VOTE: Black for scum motivated omgus.

[DragonEater70]

VIP, Knott isn't mafia.

[Aneninen]

What's even the point of this case, VIP, if you are just gonna say you aren't scum reading me at the end?

I'll answer that when everyone's been around.

So far the only people who omgused me are Tim and Black, IIRC.

Wasn't I doing the same actually?

VIP, Knott isn't mafia.

Show me something why not.
I stated the same about Timmer and I gave some explanation.


But you can take your time, I don't think it would be wise to go after Knott until he's getting better. (Yes, it's a possibility that he's faking that he has COVID, but that would be suboptimal in the long run. That's something a player can fake exactly once as an excuse. So I simply ignore this possibility.)

Why do you think Python died? Simply because they were obv-town?

Who do you think the scum on the Gimli wagon was or were?

[DragonEater70]

He's not faking covid.

It's also very rude to say that he might be faking it.

[DragonEater70]

I will answer everything later.

[Aneninen]

He's not faking covid.

It's also very rude to say that he might be faking it.

I might have phrased that badly, sorry, Knott if you put it in the way Dragon said, but my conclusion was that he was NOT faking it.

[DragonEater70]

>In post 889, DragonEater70 wrote:
>So far the only people who omgused me are Tim and Black, IIRC.
Wasn't I doing the same actually?

No, you were voting me for my posts looking scummy to you, not for a made up reason that boils down to "Dragon is pushing me and needs to be limmed now"

>In post 891, DragonEater70 wrote:
>VIP, Knott isn't mafia.
Show me something why not.
I stated the same about Timmer and I gave some explanation.

Knott sounds like a frustrated townie 50% of the time, and like he's trying to solve the game 50% of the time.

"Black's trying to be away from all the Mis-Elim while hoping that the town does all the dirty work for her."

Yes, exactly. That's a much better take on Black's play this game.

(3) Also, you DID have a lot of original reads. Technically, you DID have a scumcase on almost all of us.

I don't think I didn't have, I think I was defending myself from someone (Tim) claiming I didn't have. Which was OMGUS by Tim.

>In post 818, Afrayed Knott wrote:
>My vote on Back was a genuine failed attempt to lure a hammer onto Gimli and prove my point that Black and Tim are the scum team. which I still maintain.
What the actual fork this meant?

I have no idea, but I don't think this makes Knott scum.

"Or alternatively, if someone has a guilty or a hot scumread, let me know.", which suggest that he knows more about the Setup than we do.

I know that there's a 5/9 chance for an investigative role to exist in the setup, since it's a semi-open setup. I also don't think there are masons (based on associations), unless Black and Comet are masons which would be fucking hilarious. But anyway there's a pretty good chance someone has an investigation role and could have a guilty.

Also, what motivation does scum!me have to even say that? Wouldn't I be the likeliest investigation target after yesterday?

If you have time, that would be of great help.
Personal meta is always more valuable as second-hand.

Not sure what you mean, but I'll try to do it at some point this day phase.

[Afrayed Knott]

He's not faking covid.

It's also very rude to say that he might be faking it.

I might have phrased that badly, sorry, Knott if you put it in the way Dragon said, but my conclusion was that he was NOT faking it.

Out of Fucking order !!

[Afrayed Knott]

Ok I take that back….

[Afrayed Knott]

VIP you are so wrong really you are. But hey it’s obv you have an issue with me. And have had all game. I mostly read you as town, even with this tunnel vision you have. So shut up and start looking elsewhere. I’d also state that I’m reading DE as town now.


Right I’m going to swallow some more drugs and let the fuzz take over again

If we are settling on a Black wagon I’m game for
That.

VOTE: Black