Mini Normal 2314 - The Mafia Have a Cop [END]

[UnaBombaH]

And before you keep bashing your head to the wall with the avoidance of my question, to which I'd rather get a firm answer, consider the marci-scenario first.
They keep saying THEY KNOW they are Loyal because it says so in their role-PM.
You claim here that YOU KNOW that the Mailman had to be Loyal because YOU KNOW that you are Town and they say they are Town.

[Doctor Drew]

Again - if you are scum here with the new info we have, you'd definitely be scum with marci. That I am not arguing at all.
But you are, again, very firmly stepping away from and dissing the realm of possibilities for the scenario where the Mailman is disloyal.
You make it sound like the odds are astronomical - which they aren't.
Why would the odds for a Loyal Mailman be higher than a Disloyal one?

And still, AGAIN, I am not trying to make this into a 1v1.
I'm trying to discuss the scenario here with you, because it really interests me and might help me to 1) trust you 2) trust the Mailmans judgement.

And before you keep bashing your head to the wall with the avoidance of my question, to which I'd rather get a firm answer, consider the marci-scenario first.
They keep saying THEY KNOW they are Loyal because it says so in their role-PM.
You claim here that YOU KNOW that the Mailman had to be Loyal because YOU KNOW that you are Town and they say they are Town.

I never said I know the mailman is loyal, just that the only mention in the message of being loyal was from the mailman, and it was in first person.

I was postulating that Marci might not be the one who was loyal and it could be the mail main who is loyal.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm 100% in for a marci limm today.
But I can also say with a 100% certainty that the Mailman is not Loyal, so if that is your only reasoning for voting marci, don't.
The wording and angle in that message is absolutely not from a straight forward town!Loyal!Mailman. It just isn't.

[UnaBombaH]

Town!Loyal!Mailman wouldn't have to format their words in any way.
Scum wouldn't get it, and a townie getting it doesn't clear the Mailman themselves anyway.
So a Loyal town!Mailman would just say something/anything to help THEM get the conf. from their target during the day = THEY can either out the one conf.town or continue building reads.
No need for mysteries or weirdness.
100% not a Loyal Mailman, and the logic is there.

[UnaBombaH]

OK Drew, you are not going to come up with anything else regarding this for now?
You seemed a bit annoyed by my questions, which obv. wasn't my intention, but I hoped you would've come up with something else/more anyway.

FL you around anymore?

[UnaBombaH]

There's a logic here.
If you just stop to think about the idea of a Town Loyal/Disloyal Mailman sending a message to scum!Drew you could come up with a glaring issue.

[Doctor Drew]

Don't beat around the bush, how do you know the mailman isn't loyal?

[UnaBombaH]

Do you read what I write?

[Doctor Drew]

Town!Loyal!Mailman wouldn't have to format their words in any way.
Scum wouldn't get it, and a townie getting it doesn't clear the Mailman themselves anyway.
So a Loyal town!Mailman would just say something/anything to help THEM get the conf. from their target during the day = THEY can either out the one conf.town or continue building reads.
No need for mysteries or weirdness.

100% not a Loyal Mailman

, and the logic is there.

[Roden]

I'm losing my mind

[Roden]

Una and Drew are both town

[UnaBombaH]

I want to agree with you Roden.
I was just thinking whether Drew could be reasoned with here, but it seems like it can't be done.
I was hoping for a more neutral approach to the discussion, but they keep getting agitated.

[Roden]

Quick recap so we're all on the same page

Una is arguing that the Mailman can't be Loyal, because if they were it makes no strategic sense to send the message Drew claims to have received. Because there seems to some kind of intention behind the meaning of the message, it can't just be a bad strategic play. So it's more likely that the Mailman is Disloyal since that would make more sense given the context of the message.

Drew is arguing that Una can't be 100% certain that the Mailman isn't Loyal. To be 100% certain would require either a flip or for Una to be informed.

Is this correct?

[Firebringer]

i mean it sounds like bad strategic play either way with how the message was written
but i have doubt that both marci and mailman are scum so one being disloyal and other loyal could make sense with this

[Flavor Leaf]

Comparing Drew to Marci's situation is something I expected, but the difference is Drew wouldnt ever assume it's a Town Disloyal Mailman because they know, as town, it's 100% not.

Whereas Marci was pushing because they targeted Drew it means everyone should assume that marci is telling the truth, it's flipped

[Flavor Leaf]

i dont really know if Una scum here tries this, super bold if so, so not really interested in Una at all right now. Can get that thread back when Marci flips scum

[Flavor Leaf]

Drew doesnt have to be considered conftown with a Marci flip, and shouldn't, but it doesnt immediately make them scum either. They could be, im reading them as town, but thats the scum WIFOM for ya

[Flavor Leaf]

And if there's a Town Disloyal Mailman that did that, Drew is caught scum anyways, also catching out Marcistar, so this argument is kinda redundant.

[UnaBombaH]

You know what I was after though Boon?
I feel like we could've gotten more out of that if Drew were to engage with the thought-exercise, which they simply refused to do it seems.
It took hundreds of posts for FL to point out my Traitor-posts and to come up with my potential claim-crumbs from my posts.

And none of you take the time to think from scum!Drew-perspective which really worries me, since it comes across as either TMI or too eager to townbin Drew based on floppy actions claimed by the target himself.

Scum!Drew would have had a very simple task of "disarming" that gambit you see?

[UnaBombaH]

Drew is arguing that Una can't be 100% certain that the Mailman isn't Loyal. To be 100% certain would require either a flip or for Una to be informed.

"You know additional information about the setup: The Mailman isn't Loyal." would certainly be a badass PM to get

[UnaBombaH]

Regardless of the Loyal-talk: Drew is NOT conf. town (unfortunately), and marcii is simply not playing the game.
Correctly, or at least not at all "for town", it seems.
Arguing about what their PM says is just super silly and dumb.

Limming marcii today at least either gives us scum in marcii or a conf.town in Drew.
So if we have a protective hidden we might even get to enjoy a day of that D3.
Worst case scenario would be limming town!marcii (still wouldn't feel a lot of guilt over it based on their posts -_-' ) and then losing Drew N2, because we'd get very little information from those.

[UnaBombaH]

I went ahead and read an entire old game while bored.
Yet I didn't have the energy to read this whole game again from start..

[geraintm]

Quickly catching up.

If the overnight posts are because no daytalk and scum messed up their claim and cannot work together to fix it then I like

[geraintm]

Geraint’s alignment is bonkers easy to read in late game.

Want to share with the rest of the class on this

Geraint can’t deep wolf.

And their thought process is insanely easy to read on an objective level if they are scum/town.

Like when they are scum, you can see their objective of survival, and when they are town, you can see their “just kill me so i don’t have to do anything” mentality

This is why I like playing with people who've played with me before, because they can back up my "don't ever eliminate me day 1 because I am easily solvable later"

[geraintm]

Damn, I want to smash the "How can you be so obtuse " gif all.over marci.

Like, if I get the problem how on earth do they not?