Open 887: Coalition of Frogs (Game Over)

[Hero at Heart]

uh what

do u have like actual reasoning for that

[Hero at Heart]

if implo hammers with this reasoning please lim him tomorrow thanks

[Hero at Heart]

"putting gaith in ari" is bs

[Hero at Heart]

faith*

[Merlyn]

merlyn i said i won't vote you even if you live

i get why you don't believe that, but think of the following:

i promised ari not to lim her if coalition failed, and i didn't do that. so am a man of my word


anyway you can lim me, it might even be optimal so i don't get mislimmed last day, but i will be very sad and it will be a miselim

LOL but we're playing a game where some of us are randomly sorted into a role where we cannot be a person of their word. Like that's the whole game

[Hero at Heart]

no no u don't get it

if i'm scum i will not push you but the other townie in 3p elo

and if i'm town i still won't push you in 3p elo

[Hero at Heart]

(i will have u kno that this is mostly lighthearted, i don't actually expect you to be convinced. though i do expect you to realize i'm town considering i haven't acted in a very survivalistic manner and am not even pushing any of you/implo/ari)

[Hero at Heart]

(these 3 are the grouping of the people wanting to lim me to be clear)

[Merlyn]

(i will have u kno that this is mostly lighthearted, i don't actually expect you to be convinced. though i do expect you to realize i'm town considering i haven't acted in a very survivalistic manner and am not even pushing any of you/implo/ari)

But how does that help us win if you're town? That's why Im saying I'm accepting the chance that you're a mislim here. If you end up in the endgame I'm not confident you find the scum

[implosion]

Hero I've already explained why I think you make sense as scum. Or at least why the reasons I've felt you're town can easily be wrong.

I think survivalism as a scumtell is sort of a relic of personality. Like, I think I'm likely to be more survivalistic as town because I hate being mislimmed in most contexts more than I hate being limmed as scum. Which is not to say that I wouldn't be playing to win as scum - acting non-survivalistic is a tried and true strategy for scum. It feels like a significantly above average amount of my ability to read you in this game hinges on your personality because of the way you've been playing, which is why a significant part of this is that I'm deciding to go with Ari who knows who you are. If you are scum, then in the absence of Ari this game I'd probably still be misreading you completely because she's forced me to stop and think. If you're town then well, it's unfortunate I guess but that's life. Which is not to say I'm trying to blame her if you're both town, I'm the one choosing to listen to her now (and independently re-evaluating my reasons) when yesterday I was choosing to ignore her. If she's scum then well, I guess this is all your fault for saying you'd never lim her >_>

[Hero at Heart]

honestly not buying this

if u town you needn't trust someone who has clearly played the game to set up my lim from before the coalition was locked in on whether or not i'm scum

also idc about personality. my associatives with datisi make no sense

ari's theory was that i wanted to form a town block with datisi because i was excited to play scum with him. this would make sense in any other setup. in this setup it would be outright suicidal for both scum to be hard tring each other with zero reasoning given and both be in the coalition, because as soon as one flips, or even as soon as one member of the coalition that's not them flips town, it becomes super obvious what's going on.

[Hero at Heart]

like do you actually think me and datisi are so stupid we would hard tr each other as scum and then try to mislim everyone else in the coalition except us? in what universe do scum players as good as datisi and as good as what ari is painting me to be*, actually do something as obvious as that???

*tbh i kinda feel that just from reading ari's analysis of scum!hero's play i've gained inspiration to use in my next scum game.

[Merlyn]

So who are you voting for???? Who do you think is the scum????

[Hero at Heart]

well i'm trying to figure it out by talking with you guys. do you want me to rush through this day phase saying confidently that i think it's ari, let's say, and then if she flips town (cause i'm being real here and i don't think any of us has reads that are better than slightly >rand) get autolimmed tomorrow? no thanks

i want to actually poke people and search for a scummy reaction.

anyway i was heavily leaning implo but the fact he didn't hammer me gives me pause. i still want him to provide his own reasoning for calling me scum, i don't think sheeping ari is enough.

[Merlyn]

rush through the day phase...? Hero, there's one day left

[Hero at Heart]

i will say that my scum case on implo is based on the fact that if you read his iso starting from post 935 onwards, you see the smoothest transition between a hyper townread on hero, can't believe hero is ever scum here, to "i wanna hammer hero but not yet".

and what bothers me is the smoothness of it, there are no bumps, no wild turns left or right, no flip flopping. it feels a bit artificial. compare it with ari's 4 times of readflipping or whatever, where she was like super scumreading me in one post then saying "fine i'll tr you" in the next post. the fact it isn't smooth makes it feel organic, at least to me.

[Hero at Heart]

rush through the day phase...? Hero, there's one day left

ugh i was not paying attention to the deadline

oh well

VOTE: implosion

watch as he freaks out and hammers me.

[Merlyn]

all right, UNVOTE: Hero for now

Maybe the fact the neither Bella nor Implo hammered means its just Ari after all

[Hero at Heart]

could you expand on that thought process?

[Hero at Heart]

ehhhh, you know what

i'm capable of believing datisi was faking a weak, hesitant tr on ari because he didn't want to scumread his scum partner

also i kinda think ari's reaction to me having a 99% confidence on datisi town might be tmi from her lollll.

VOTE: ari

[Merlyn]

Yeah, I'm thinking there's no rush to put the hammer down on you, I don't know why if you're town and Bella or Implo is scum that they don't come in and end it. Cautiousness tends to be more towny. The other option is that you really are scum

[Hero at Heart]

like i've read datisi / ari's interactions so many times this game i don't even have to go back to check them, they are etched into my brain

and this is like theeee post that gave me serious pause on datisi which i probably should have paid more heed to:

how is that different than asking "why does scum ever pretend to scumread anyone ever" because the answer to that is pretty obvious and i don't get why it wouldn't be applicable to mala?

pedit: okay that makes more sense

i still think the thought process is flawed but i like the thought process itself form you (i sweat and question my life choices as i type that out)

pedit: yes that's why i was given pause on implo, i fully expected scum!him to hammer and was preparing to write a full blown scum case on his shady hammer but it didn't happen.

[Aristeia]

this page just reinforces my view that hero is just making up whatever he thinks will get him to the next day and doesn't actually have any concrete view about who the last mafia is

[Hero at Heart]

this page just reinforces my view that hero is just making up whatever he thinks will get him to the next day and doesn't actually have any concrete view about who the last mafia is

i'm sorry that i'm not a scumhunting god

it's not like i openly stated i think i have weak reads and they're only slightly better than random, right?

[Aristeia]

your decision to move from implosion to me is based on Merlyn unvoting you and saying its not implosion or bella which means her vote could land on me and not based on you believing I am mafia.

I haven't said anything about your competence as a player, I am saying you are being opportunistic in the way you vote rather than trying to actually vote who you believe is the last mafia.