Open 889 | Secrets of the Anuket Topaz | fin.

[Firebringer]

to provide some game content (gross)
Titus, you have done nothing to convince anyone of anything. You are as stubborn if not more so than anyone else in this game.

I am still waiting for people to explain why ur town and have asked it a million times. At this point I might as well ask you, why should I be townread you?

[Prism]

controversial take:
The original full metal alchemist is better than brotherhood.
I enjoy both but i think original got me much more emotionally invested

especially scene where ed kills his mom

Trigun is also technically in my top 10 but I rated that when I was roughly half of my current age and I don't trust that.

[Firebringer]

i have only seen the reboot of trigun and apparently its extremely serious compared to source, but i enjoyed it

[Firebringer]

extremely silly***

[Prism]

That's about all the mafia I have the energy for today unfortunately. I'll still be around on my phone but yeah.

[Titus]

Prism, I have solved the game and have been done for awhile. Yes my reads are static. Either we win or lose. Mafia as town is about solving a mystery. Like Clue, I need to see if I'm right or get new information. I've let y'all blather but seen nothing persuasive.

To me, y'all are stubborn and refuse to listen. Which demotivates everyone.

I get you want me to be wrong because I don't play like you. The fact is though I have my ways. The game needs moving.

It seems like people want to lose. At least this mechanic has scum leave so you'll get two shots to actually listen.

If you can't walk me through why Dragons and camel are town I see zero reason to believe you have solved the game or vote with you. I suspect I will still see zero reason to believe you solved the game even if they are in fact town, because that is very likely to happen by random chance alone.

You laid it out quite nicely and discarded it.

[Prism]

The way I just laid it out was very intentionally missing multiple steps because I have no idea what on earth the connectives were.

[Titus]

to provide some game content (gross)
Titus, you have done nothing to convince anyone of anything. You are as stubborn if not more so than anyone else in this game.

I am still waiting for people to explain why ur town and have asked it a million times. At this point I might as well ask you, why should I be townread you?

Because you're voting with scum who omgused me for solving the game. I don't do townmeta. Look at the gamestate. If I was just scumreading whoever attacked me, then that would be random af scumreads.

I sorted Shiro's behavior early today. I sorted jjh. I sorted Alisae. I sorted you. I sorted Prism. I sorted StD, camel and gob with hard data.

There is nowhere else.

I can't do more.

[Titus]

The way I just laid it out was very intentionally missing multiple steps because I have no idea what on earth the connectives were.

StD and Alisae wagons match. That's same alignment.
Ydrasse slipped and you discarded.
Jjh was sketchy from the git with me, which you saw. Then the Alisae wagon interactions EoD1.
Like you've seen all this and decided I'm looney tunes.

[Titus]

Scum aren't going to have all 3 on StD or Alisae. Common fucking sense. Probably not two.

[camelCasedSnivy]

What is the relevance here?

camel said his reasoning in defending gob this game was similar to his defense, as town, of another player in a prior game.

I went back, pulled the relevant quotes to save other players the time, then compared and contrasted the reasoning presented in that game to camel's defense here.

My conclusion is that they are very different and I would like clarification from camel.

the main component of that was that no one defended someone i townread (iamveryhappy) so i did to more of an extent that i would have than if other people defended him

[Prism]

Scum aren't going to have all 3 on StD or Alisae. Common fucking sense. Probably not two.

I'm going to take this to be your chief principle. I'm not checking to see they will match and will take your word for it. I will also take as your assumption that there is in fact only one scum on Dragon's wagon because this is more favorable to you.

One scum player out of 5 voted Alisae. It is very likely the same scum player (presumably Ydrasse) would be willing to vote scum-Dragons, particularly if that vote is early, and would actually explain the shift more than a T/T wagon would.

I will discard this point despite being confident in its veracity. We will go back to a two-scum world, because it makes it easier when you assume Ydrasse is scum.

You have singled out camel as being the town player on the wagon. It is not obvious why camel has a stronger claim to this than myself. You now think I am town, and thus might consider it moot, but you did not think it applied to me at the time. I don't see a reason to believe scum-Camel and scum-Ydrasse voting Dragons is unlikely other than "well any two scum won't vote town together", in which case we can all pack up and go home because essentially, nobody is scum with anybody.

[camelCasedSnivy]

like fr why cant we all just grab rowboats and sail away back to our homes over dying

[Ydrasse]

so true

i’m, unfortunately, bored of the game as it is right now. i’d be hard pressed to change my vote atp. i think even if titus is town (and i doubt it!) i fundamentally cannot work with her and it’ll all just continue to be an obnoxious distraction. my other choices don’t feel great in comparison to this one (being like… imaginality? camel but meh…? prism????)

i don’t feel as strong about my townreads either atp shirou is leaning a lot more into the flair for theatre than i remember which is a curiosity. i think firebringer is towny, jjh is towny, gob is towny. idk. i don’t feel like i have a lot to add because i’m just waiting to see what happens

[Prism]

Titus, just wondering, so far I have cited specific reasons for why I disagree on jjh being town, and explained why I do not believe Ydrasse slipped, and why I am struggling to pick between a few candidates for a vote.

How would you feel if instead of doing that, I asserted the following: I know Ydrasse was town because actually her not seeing the replace-out means that she doesn't have a scum PT at all [as her partners would have told her, ie. she has no partners]. Further, I am very confident that camel is scum because the rest of the Dragons wagon is town. Dragons is also more likely to be scum because camel swapped votes. The last scum is therefore you by default, who has protected both and defended them for the exact opposite reasoning in a setup that heavily incentivizes the same. imaginality has to be town as a result. The game is solved and everyone that is not voting one of those three is being stubborn and just can't stand the idea that I might be right.

To be clear, I am asserting zero of that, but I wonder how you would react if I did.

[Titus]

Titus, just wondering, so far I have cited specific reasons for why I disagree on jjh being town, and explained why I do not believe Ydrasse slipped, and why I am struggling to pick between a few candidates for a vote.

How would you feel if instead of doing that, I asserted the following: I know Ydrasse was town because actually her not seeing the replace-out means that she doesn't have a scum PT at all [as her partners would have told her, ie. she has no partners]. Further, I am very confident that camel is scum because the rest of the Dragons wagon is town. Dragons is also more likely to be scum because camel swapped votes. The last scum is therefore you by default, who has protected both and defended them for the exact opposite reasoning in a setup that heavily incentivizes the same. imaginality has to be town as a result. The game is solved and everyone that is not voting one of those three is being stubborn and just can't stand the idea that I might be right.

To be clear, I am asserting zero of that, but I wonder how you would react if I did.

If you actually believed that, I would engage you on your premises.

For sake of argument, you're postulating that Ydrasse cased a slot without reading the thread as my slot happened to be wagoned which is opportunistic af and still scum behavior. Yet you townread it. Baffling.

You also misunderstand my point. Even if Ydrasse is town (she isn't). There aren't two scum on the wagon.

camelCasedSnivy, Shirou, Ydrasse, Alisae, Prism - is the StD wagon.

T3, camelCasedSnivy, Shirou, Prism, imaginality - Alisae wagon

Prism, T3, Shirou, Alisae, Firebringer - Gob wagon

Same names same result. Repeating insanity. Town pushing town. None of these had counters except for Alisae. That counter was me.

The names voting me have been omgus because I don't want the status quo.

[Titus]

You are literally repeating yourselves over and over random firing town and scum have zero problem letting you do it.

[Prism]

I really don't know what to tell you if you honestly believe same voters=same flip. There is no bridging that gap. I don't have to get to questioning how it leads specifically to town Camel. I'm fine to end it there and flip you.

[Titus]

I really don't know what to tell you if you honestly believe same voters=same flip. There is no bridging that gap. I don't have to get to questioning how it leads specifically to town Camel. I'm fine to end it there and flip you.

Camel's the first voter on a major wagon + no valid suspect reasons.

You know damn well you're flipping me rather than accept my premises. Not much else I can do. It's been a playstyle discrepancy since the start. You're eliminating me not because you think I'm scum but you think I am a vote for them.

Not much I can do there.

Town basically win or lose by mech now a days.

[Titus]

Like I was straight up right yesterday and got promised I'd be worked with today.

I tried wagoning scum yesterday. The same people won't budge.

Repeating the same thing over and expecting a different result is insanity.

3 wagons. Same players no counters. Same result. Town pushing town.

This game is literally insane.

[Prism]

You're eliminating me not because you think I'm scum but you think I am a vote for them.

This is not true. I am voting you because I think you are as likely to flip scum as my other leading candidates.

However, I also reject your premises. You could luck into a 3/3 and I still would do so.

[Prism]

I don't say that to be mean. I say that to make clear what my thoughts and opinions are. If you think of hope that deep down somewhere I townread you, you are dead wrong.

[Titus]

You're eliminating me not because you think I'm scum but you think I am a vote for them.

This is not true. I am voting you because I think you are as likely to flip scum as my other leading candidates.

However, I also reject your premises. You could luck into a 3/3 and I still would do so.

This is circular. You convinced yourself that I could be scum because my premises are supposedly wrong rather than the intent behind them.

People should be read based upon intent. Scum's intent is to survive and never bus. Collective omgus by my three scumreads is scum.

You know that I sorted each and every active player by interactions.

Could I be wrong? It's possible. I'm just need to see. I've been right so far given enough interactions.

I just hate dealing with stubborn town that ignore my viewpoint because I can't put it in theirs because it's not my evidence. My evidence is different than your thoughts.

[Titus]

I don't say that to be mean. I say that to make clear what my thoughts and opinions are. If you think of hope that deep down somewhere I townread you, you are dead wrong.

I don't hope it. I have seen this denial pattern hundreds of times, IRL and in game. Then people kick themselves. They act "confused" and in denial because it's not the result they want.

[Titus]

At some point, the judge has ruled. In mafia, we then see if it's right. That's why deadlines exist.