Toriel's Patience (end)

[Merlyn]

I like beeboy. The push on him doesn't feel right. It might be town that's just happy to put there vote somewhere

[beeboy]

I like beeboy. The push on him doesn't feel right. It might be town that's just happy to put there vote somewhere

I like you too frog wizard

[Lazy Shirou]

Trying to go through this beeboy debate, a neuron somewhere in my brain very vaguely remembered reading people claim that beeboy was readable by meta a long time ago.

I tried to check if I was misremembering and although his most recent games aren't very recent, it seems in his last scum game Gamma correctly caught him by the same "method".

He isn't very active most of the time but from the two town games/two scum games I've read, I think I would firmly place him as town here. In fact potentially my strongest town read after Taly.

[Lazy Shirou]

If I'm not missing a lot more context to his town/scum meta, I would like to know why players that have experience with Beeboy were suspecting him here when at minimum I feel like his ISO here should make you question a scum lean there more thoroughly.

I also would like Ali's opinion on this given I saw someone comment they were good at reading each other. Maybe even Beeboy's own opinion on whether he should be town read here or not in his view.

[Lazy Shirou]

If I had to summarize my "findings", I would say that as scum Beeboy seemed to focus mostly on stating an opinion on things while as town he seemed to give more focus on explaining how exactly he got his opinion on something.

town!Beeboy reads/analysis just seems to have *way* more meat to it but I'll confess that the games I've read he posted very little and I'm giving it credibility mostly because other people seem to also think he's very distinctly readable by meta (for likely similar reasons?).

[Lazy Shirou]

A part of me doesn't want to address the elephant in the room because it sounds like a lot of trouble for D1 but I'll do it anyway and say that this made my feelings towards Mandante drop significantly because I very much expect Mandante to be familiar with Beeboy to some degree.

His attack on beeboy for "trying to dismantle the townblock" just feels reactive to me right now because if he's scum I would expect him trying to insert himself in the townblock and so far thinking back on what he's posted it lines up. He seems to be very intentionally be trying to construct a townblock, with himself included on it, and explaining that people attacking it are +scum.

To not be accused of the same thing, I must say that I feel a bit better about Sakura now and other than Key/Implosion, I've a decently similar "townblock" in mind.

But it doesn't include you @Mandate and until we sort this Beeboy thing out, I'm very uncomfortable with you being in the "townblock" or trying to push people just for criticizing it.

[Lazy Shirou]

I also checked Ali a bit because she simply isn't here at all, but it seems like she's busy and dunno if it's alignment indicative

[Lazy Shirou]

Gamma correctly identifying Beeboy in his last scum game in the site (as far as I know?):

how is beeboy a legit scumread anyone has what have they even done

i dont remember seeinf a single post fron them..

I kinda think his town/scum meta are divergent that he can be read on 7 posts
He sounds wooden here, rather than natural. Wanna guess which alignment thosw trend towards for him?

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84949
viewtopic.php?f=54&t=84286
The first link is a beeboy scumgame, the second is a beeboy towngame. I feel like it’s rather apparent beeboy has been posting more like the former than the latter.

re: Meerkat: read his sig lol
Him being meme-y is NAI

[Lazy Shirou]

The unique issue is that yeah, Beeboy doesn't seem to have posted a lot in recent games

He's kinda breaking a pattern here

[Lazy Shirou]

blegh I'm kinda efforting too much here already

[Mandate]

hahahahahhaha ok I decide to cancel my little break and then my post gets lost by the site going down, thanks Obama

[Mandate]

I'm gonna be honest Shirou I have no nostalgia for this and my wanting a bit to recuperate and come at you with full energy was the reason for my break but I think it is, indeed, time for us to dance.

[Lazy Shirou]

Oh so you were secretly thinking of me too?

Gosh, you are gonna make me blush!

I just hope the song to accompany us is lighthearted enough~

No one wants to watch a gloomy dance!

[Lazy Shirou]

but I think it is, indeed, time for us to dance.

This sounds like it'll be a tiring effort but I'm a polite lady and shall not refuse to show my MAD FOOTSTEP skills

[Lazy Shirou]

I've pretty much explained my main point on suspecting you at the moment I think

I also thought this post was kinda weird:

Ari am I gonna run into problems with you if I elect to do nothing about Dannflor and Sakura conflict or am I required to jump in like NO ALL THE VOTES IN THIS GAME BELONG TO ME AND ME ALONE AND WE ARE VOTING MY SCUMREAD. MINE MY OWN.

My precious...

I'm not confident enough on it to vote you though and optimally I would want to avoid voting you D1 unless I'm decently confident about it

[Lazy Shirou]

so I'm fine waiting for your break if you want to "recover" first

I also don't think I want to spend too much of my weekend here

[Mandate]

Why was my push on Beeboy just my eyes glazed over beeboy posts when I was still pushing it but when I got cold feet (ie decided that he felt kinda towny despite the absurdity of some of the things he said) you've decided that the fact I pushed it in the first place is scummy? Intriguing that the wagon is okay while I'm pushing the mislim but when I suddenly lose interest in the wagon it's suddenly scummy that I wanted it in the first place, even though you're basically screaming to the rooftops that I'm a player who is known for, as town, yolo wagoning people and changing wagons if I don't like how I feel about the wagon. Who in fact never really was able to replicate that kind of play as scum, self admittedly! Your logic is self defeating when I didn't end up pushing the wagon through in the first place.

Why is it scummy that I think that a bunch of people are town and scum will need to do something to prevent themselves getting bowled by too many townies finding each other? Why as town who is confident in other town would I not feel exactly this way? Funny that you talk like I've been systematically suppressing any criticism of the townblock and yet Aristeia who was voted by a bunch of strong townies got me cancelling her wagon. Didn't push Merlyn. Cancelled my push on Beeboy. Interesting that we talk about people trying to sneak in to be spared yet I'm making my own job getting spared harder by fully locking in a bunch of players (who largely agree that the others are town) as town. Why is Sakura going to vote me for sparing when she knows if I'm town I should be consenting to spare her? Why would a single player vote to spare me when I have essentially said that half the playerlist consists of people that I'm 100% sure no qualifiers are town? Why am I helping players like Aristeia gain influence in the game even though they've made it abundantly clear that there is essentially no universe where they spare me? Meanwhile you supported the Dann/Sakura conflict which frankly is pretty far outside of your town paygrade, talked about how people were getting townread too easily without really accusing anyone, etcetra. There's a very clear difference in whose set of actions scum are motivated to do and you're checking all the boxes while I just sit here making the game miserable for scum, whether or not I am myself scum.

You say talking about the elephant in the room even though you yourself commented no one seemed to like you despite you being pretty active, although I think you knew even then I knew you were the mysterious scum of the day. I felt like going for Beeboy first because I was lazy but let's get this going, for this is the main event, you are scum, and your death has been ordered

by divine mandate.

Do you like how I named the account this so I could do that btw

VOTE: Lazy Shirou

[Mandate]

I didn't see the offer of a temporary cessation of dancing, but I suppose I am still open to it because I don't really want to be spending forever here either. Or maybe I do.
I honestly have no idea how I'll react to being in a full on mafia tunnel war again. But I suspect I will feel relatively ambivalent about it. The idea felt exhausting but now that it's here I'm kinda energized.

[Mandate]

Also the original post was way cooler and way more dramatic but it got eaten up by the site downtime and I kinda failed to replicate the energy it had and I am sad.

[Keyleth]

The three people I sat down thinking and looking over for who has the least points and who I would vote aren’t wagons so I’m just gonna sit here and try to get a read on beeboy because that seems to be the hot thread topic wooo.

[Mandate]

Who are those three people?

[Lazy Shirou]

1) It's exactly because I was glazing over beeboy's posts/discussion that only later (now), as I was trying to sort him, I remembered the thing about meta. I've never played a game with beeboy before and it came to my mind as I was struggling to read him. You unvoted him but also said you hadn't really reconsidered him in 1029. I can't say much else about the "timing" I decided to post this? I posted as soon as the idea came to me and I verified it. I didn't take your unvote as you suddenly thinking beeboy was town (which I still think you don't see him as?).

2) I don't think that creating a townblock or your philosophy here is necessarily scummy per se, but I found now the beeboy thing scummy unless you've some solid explanations for that (and also the way you've engaged Ari, kinda). Therefore once I began to see your slot more negatively for other things, I also thought whether your attempt at forming a townblock with yourself on it was scum motivated. There's enough incentive for scum to try to direct the formation of a townblock with themselves on it, even if not directly to try to be spared at the first moment.

3) Yeah I'm on my "Lazy Alt" as you can see so I'm being more casual and I'm unhappily not an universal town read yet. That also happened in one other town game in this alt where I memed even harder and almost ended up being limmed. I would rather not die today though, thank you for the offer! I'm also just town and don't think I would have likely picked this fight with you in D1 if I was (although maybe I would try to risk it so that people would potentially town read me for it? dunno.)

[Lazy Shirou]

Do you like how I named the account this so I could do that btw

Ohhhh, so that's where the username came from!

also a shame the original was lost!

[Mandate]

Eh if scum are gonna openly try to use meta against me I'll just own up to it so that I can rebut the assertions being made.

I can very confidently say I played at most 3 games with Beeboy in the period from 2017 to 2020. Not only do I lack meta on the player the entire idea of holding a lack of meta knowledge against a player who hasn't played in four years is an incredibly stretch. There is only one player in this game on whom I """have meta""" in any real sense and she is not a player that anyone is going to struggle to read.

[Lazy Shirou]

However I still want to know two things:

1) How do you see Beeboy slot right now?

2) Where in that huge post have you explained why you didn't take Beeboy's meta into account on your read here? If it was anyone else I could understand shrugging it off, but Beeboy is apparently known for being meta readable in a similar way to another slot here, and I still want to understand why you haven't given similar treatment to both if you were even vaguely aware of Beeboy's meta circumstance.