Toriel's Patience (end)

[Lazy Shirou]

okay but let me try to make something clear Mandate

was there any way she could scum read you and not be scummy in your PoV? If so how?

You say she wouldn't be so anti-you here if she was town by suspecting you and your unpopular townreads, but does that mean if she only suspected you with some other people it wouldn't be enough for you to think she was for sure scum?

[Lazy Shirou]

like, is the real issue the fact she's scum reading you along with implosion and dann, which doesn't feel like a real scumteam solve for you

or

the fact she's still scum reading/suspecting you when she should be in fact town reading you (from your PoV)

[Mandate]

It's the specific set of 3 she's pushing that is the dead giveaway

Don't buy it for a minute

But I've been thinking about her quite a bit over the last few days because I actually thought you were significantly more town and I thought Merlyn probably ain't scum and Beeboy probably ain't scum and Sakura and Taly and Keyleth and Brown Eyes probably doesn't even make it this far and Dann and Implo and it was already pretty clear to me that my townread on ari was more "I would like to believe that scum doesn't do this in the position they are in" as opposed to "I have a good reason to believe this person isn't scum"

Like I was in a position where I'm forced to scumread Dunnstral which... like it's possible but man he is playing like dogshit as a scum on the teams I'm leaving him but he's playing pretty well (and ig normally?) as town and something is clearly missing

I do think she should townread me but I really really don't buy someone pushing anti rc implo Dann as anything besides scum posturing

[Mandate]

I think a town player with a coherent worldview who scumreads me would think Dunnstral is scum with me

Why I believe that I'll keep to myself because it's hard to articulate

[Mandate]

And NGL I think the buddy is just alisae

I don't think it's Dunn or BE or anything complicated

[Dannflor]

ok

what is aristeia doing to win the game if that is the team ?

[Mandate]

Ari Ali svs makes so much sense BC

Ari is essentially treading water doing posture stuff to try to get townread later while pushing silly stuff now right

So if Meuh is kinda doing her own thing which isn't trying to directly advance scum wincon Ali doesn't really have a job on the scumteam, e doesn't really have any reason to do anything

So since e is busy with rl stuff anyway why not just afk, e isn't letting es team down because no one on es team is actually directly making any sort of plays

[Lazy Shirou]

okay, i'm not sure i agree with you that town!Ari never have those reads here but i can see the point you're making

also unrelated but assuming she's town, i'll be sad if Brown Eyes end up replacing out for the game being too fast (on Sunday i felt like it was too fast even for me as i took a day off the thread)

i'll prepare coffee gifs to offer her when she gets around to catch-up again

[Aristeia]

I gave Aristeia a lot of chances because I simply didn't want to believe that the player would, in the position she was in of being told by the mod that I was in the game, exploit the situation so ruthlessly to try to get towncred.

this is not what I did at all

[Aristeia]

since you've accused me of unethical behavior this is the end of our conversation

[Dannflor]

like it doesn't seem like ari is playing to get spared

i think it's pretty clear we're probably gonna go the spare route unless someone has a slam dunk case on Dunn

i guess you could argue meuh is playing to get spared just unsuccessfully

[Mandate]

ok

what is aristeia doing to win the game if that is the team ?

Just trying to seem like town who is hard paranoid of me and also setting up to try to ban my being spared if it comes to a 3rd or 4th spare where they (the scum collectively) had to kill other people

I have nothing else to say so the conversation is indeed over

[Dannflor]

I think dunn having an inexplicable number of town reads points towards town!Dunn on a game-state level

[Lazy Shirou]

i guess you could argue meuh is playing to get spared just unsuccessfully

meuh didn't attempt to pocket me more so now perhaps she's suffering the consequences?!

[Meuh]

I’m town though

[Lazy Shirou]

doesn't mean you shouldn't pocket me anyway!

[Mandate]

Your town but the only people you want to vote are people who your top townread has called town and you have no interest in going after people shading someone you consider obvtown? Strange

[Dannflor]

Just trying to seem like town who is hard paranoid of me and also setting up to try to ban my being spared if it comes to a 3rd or 4th spare where they (the scum collectively) had to kill other people

ok but like

idk i feel like Ari has to play a lot harder here to have a chance of winning as scum. There are so many towny slots and in a hypothetical meuh/ali world neither of them are getting spared at this rate

like if Ari is scum I shouldn't have to prod her for her paranoia reads on me/you/implo

that doesn't give her the town cred nor control she would need

i mean this is assuming ari would be playing to win but i don't think there's any reason not to assume that

[Meuh]

Your town but the only people you want to vote are people who your top townread has called town and you have no interest in going after people shading someone you consider obvtown? Strange

Wow so true!!!!!!

[Meuh]

Also you’re*

[implosion]

I think it is eminently possible to have a correct townread on me right now.

what should I be town-reading from you?

This has similar vibes to the question you asked Mandate about their townread on me of saying if they said they're so sure of it are they willing to stake whatever on it. The real answer is idk, I don't know how you in particular get reads on people, I don't know why you historically scumread me early, I just know that I'm not so masterful a scum player that I could have emulated everything I've done in this game so far. I gave some examples when talking with Meuh. There are various things I've done that I think I probably wouldn't have done often or ever as scum, the way I've approached catching up and keeping up with this game, the particular way I've been engaged with it (which I have been, you're wrong that I haven't shown interest in this game, I think I pretty clearly have at this point), details of how my reads on people like Meuh and Brown Eyes and you have worked. But I don't magically know my own game well enough to truthfully say I can pin down exactly what I would have done differently as scum. That's your job, you signed up for this game, and if you're town your read on me is currently wrong, and it's not my job to explain to you exactly what details you should be picking up on, it's your job to pick up on them just like it's not your job to explain in detail to me why I should be townreading you when I'm not right now. That's just how the game works, idk why I'm getting annoyed at this question because it's a very normal question it's just annoying to me in the context of this game for whatever reason.

[Mandate]

I don't think she wants to openly block the Meuh wagon, she just wants to position where she can not support it and subtly encourage people to vote counterwagons on Dann and Implo which is where the viable counterwagons were

Frankly I don't think the endgame of her play was necessarily to scumread me in the late game, I'm not sure what it was, I think it was all just trying to get townread and then try to make some sort of break from her position depending on where the game was

[implosion]

Ditto to Merlyn's question to me to some degree but honestly I don't really expect her to ever "find me as town" here, at least not for a few days when probably if we're both alive if she's town she'll figure out that there's Something Different about my game here compared to the one where we just played together. After all she was able to find me as scum there eventually (although maybe it was PoE in elo, i'm not sure what was going on in her head precisely)

[Mandate]

Like I think you guys are assuming she wants to fight me all game. I do not necessarily think that. I think she wants to keep that open but position as someone who is not really trying to get spared who can then get spared

[Lazy Shirou]

i feel no reason to town read Ari but also feel little reason to scum read her this hard

i understand how her stance on you makes you suspect her but i legit think town!Ari could have a very similar stance even if she's scum in this game specifically

dunno if i'm being dumb