Mini Normal 2317 - Postgame

[biancospino]

1.09

Votecount 1.09

Elements (3): Naerys, KeyLaga, KittyTacky
Gamma Emerald (2): Bingle, Elements
Bingle (2): Random Nurse, Organized Khaos
KeyLaga (1): Flavor Leaf
Organized Khaos (1): OutWorldER

Not Voting (4): mayhemthrone, Eiralox,

Celebloki

, Gamma Emerald

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an execution.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2023-11-16 10:02:20).

[Gamma Emerald]

WRT Flavor Leaf, I literally joined this game on the back of his presence. We work very well together, when both town. He was in my first modded game and I have reviewed or comodded quite a few games with him. In fact, he reached out to me to comod/review a game not long before this one started.

I was intentionally ignoring his presence in this game to see what he would do about it. I was, to put it simply, unimpressed. He 'derailed' a shit wagon on me, sure, but that wagon was going nowhere fast. KL also doesn't really get any cred for the unvote/vote/unvote bit wrt my wagon dissipating, for largely the same reason. If anything, the dance there was fucking awful. But that's kind of the point: KL was pushing me, got worried they might be wrong, freaked out, and then came back and doubled down. It's a bad progression for catching scum and for appearances, but it's a natural progression for someone who is legitimately trying to figure out what I'm doing.

Okay

[KeyLaga]

Sorry, I have to reply to this because clearly we are seeing things differently:

KL also doesn't really get any cred for the unvote/vote/unvote bit wrt my wagon dissipating, for largely the same reason.

Your wagon dissipated AFTER I unvoted and so I do get credit there, at least for protecting you; we both have seen accidental hammers and how easily they can occur.

KL was pushing me, got worried they might be wrong, freaked out

At no point did that happen. I received resistance from Flavor after I unvoted, he would not discuss anything with me and so I simply took a smoke break and rethought some things about Elements' "claim".

Well I would like to learn scum hunting tips from you (and anyone for that matter), I seem to perceive that you have quite the reputation, especially when under pressure.

I think where we can work together, is to realize that Elements' actions have had a negative effect upon this town and that we can re-group and start nailing scum like skeet shots.

[Elements]

I think where we can work together, is to realize that Elements' actions have had a negative effect upon this town and that we can re-group and start nailing scum like skeet shots.

What negative effects?

[KeyLaga]

Anyone familiar with LAL?

Policy lims are a measure of last resort. We are no where near resorting to a policy lim this phase.

I understand your perspective. Feel free to read all of my posts surrounding this wagon to learn more of my mindset. Its not necessarily alignment indicative to disagree with this wagon.

[KeyLaga]

I think where we can work together, is to realize that Elements' actions have had a negative effect upon this town and that we can re-group and start nailing scum like skeet shots.

What negative effects?

For one, I have wasted a lot of time on a Bingle case that had no basis in reality and was singly cause by your fakeclaiming. Assuming that Bingle is town, this has interfered with our interactions in a negative way.

Secondly, your fakeclaim has outed an Informed townsperson, which is all I am going to say about that.

[Elements]

I think where we can work together, is to realize that Elements' actions have had a negative effect upon this town and that we can re-group and start nailing scum like skeet shots.

What negative effects?

For one, I have wasted a lot of time on a Bingle case that had no basis in reality and was singly cause by your fakeclaiming. Assuming that Bingle is town, this has interfered with our interactions in a negative way.

Secondly, your fakeclaim has outed an Informed townsperson, which is all I am going to say about that.

I've gotten 3 townreads out of it
The informed claimed info the mafia already knew, and could also just be scum claiming the info they know.

[Elements]

Oh and Mafia knows that there is a protective so I didn't ruin any possible play, I only helped inform (no pun intended) the IC's play.

And I'm assuming kitty was going to claim his information at some point anyway

[Bingle]

Snip

Oh, I understood your case. I just didn't give it the time of day.

It relies on a few presumptions:

Ele is town.
KT's claim about being informed that scum know there is a protective is a lie, and therefore KT is scum.

So in order for me to be shopping the viability of non strongman kills on the IC I have to be scum with KT who also decided to risk a potential mechanical 1v1 with a town elements for the same info I was fishing for.

[Bingle]

Your wagon dissipated AFTER I unvoted

True, but it doesn't make you town. Scum you would just as easily have realized the wagon wasn't going to hit elimination and bailed. As far as a qh being a threat there... I was precisely 0% worried about that.

[KeyLaga]

I've gotten 3 townreads out of it

Town reads are less than a dime a dozen when the informed minority know them all.

The informed claimed info the mafia already knew, and could also just be scum claiming the info they know.

In that case you'd better get a counter wagon started pronto! Get everyone lined up for the VCA.

[KeyLaga]

Oh and Mafia knows that there is a protective so I didn't ruin any possible play, I only helped inform (no pun intended) the IC's play.

And I'm assuming kitty was going to claim his information at some point anyway

I doubt it but you'd have to ask him. I think he's smarter than that -- a lot smarter would be my guess.

[Elements]

Why is not outing that info smart?

[KeyLaga]

Your wagon dissipated AFTER I unvoted

True, but it doesn't make you town. Scum you would just as easily have realized the wagon wasn't going to hit elimination and bailed. As far as a qh being a threat there... I was precisely 0% worried about that.

I am not saying I am town for unvoting. I am simply saying unvoting was the best thing for the town because you were mobile and had not responded AND the day was very early and its rarely good to end days like that, especially D1, right?

L-1 is always a threat period, its undeniable.

[KeyLaga]

Why is not outing that info smart?

I think you know already. I am willing to say I know you know, in fact.

[Elements]

Why is not outing that info smart?

I think you know already. I am willing to say I know you know, in fact.

It's something scum know, why would you not tell town? Then town aren't on the back foot and it tells the tp that crumbing in dangerous as scum could be looking out for it

[Elements]

I see no downside

[KeyLaga]

Why is not outing that info smart?

I think you know already. I am willing to say I know you know, in fact.

It's something scum know, why would you not tell town?

WOW! The scum know this?? I THINK MOST CERTAINLY NOT! Why do I think this? Because here you are trying to justify your actions.

Then town aren't on the back foot and it tells the tp that crumbing in dangerous as scum could be looking out for it

I am certainly willing to have an actual conversation with you but I can't quite figure out what you mean by this last quote if you could please re-phrase it somehow?

[KeyLaga]

I see no downside

Well, I have to say that I don't believe you, otherwise I have no reasonable and practical explanation for your actions.

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m not gonna sugarcoat it: all this informed role talk is kinda losing me
My bandwidth for mechanically complex games is limited rn. Can we please just scumhunt today?

[KeyLaga]

Sure. I am sorry, I am not trying to derail this thread. To begin with, I see the scum solidly in Elements. I ask you Gamma, what are the chances that Town-Elements just happened to fakeclaim Informed in an Informed themed game?

I ask because this is what Elements is asking all of us (who are town) to believe that she just accidentally claimed Informed.

Anyway, that's the beginning foundation of my scum case on Elements. Who do you think are scum?

[Elements]

Kitty's info

I am informed that a maf knows that there is a TP.

Scum knows there is a pr
Scum will now be on the lookout for any town that are crumbing a protective role
By telling town that Scum knows there's a pt, it protects the TP from getting found by Scum as easily

[Elements]

Ate traitors normal?

[Elements]

There is zero downside to telling town anything that scum knows

[Eiralox]

Traitors are normal