Toriel's Patience (end)

[Bingle]

TOWN LOST THAT GAME

BINGLE

Town lost that game because I was 100% wrong on my HPE read and townbearding. Limming me or not limming me didn't change that. Arguably, removing me as the person hard defending the last scum improved town's chances.

[Bingle]

I'm not going to go looking for old games, but this isn't new behavior from me. iirc, there was a game where nsg and skitter were both hard tunneled on me and I rolled over and took the lim to let them reevaluate because they were obvtown at that point.

I'm also not going to fight my elimination, because I genuinely do believe it will help town win this game.

[Taly]

...

[Taly]

im getting mindfucked right now

i cant believe that you believe what you're saying right now

[Taly]

i am confused

[Taly]

im not limming you if i think you are town

[Taly]

VOTE: Freedom

ive been playing too much mafia lately...

still not wanting to end the day yet, but this is still my choice atm

[Taly]

this should the

E3

to keep track of votes here

im heading off for the night

[implosion]

I strongly disagree

If you're campaigning for your own elimination, which I'm heavily considering just a turbolim on you right now, you are NOT helping town by removing a green slot in the game

You increase town odds of winning spare by eliminating SCUM

I will say, I think this kind of logic is garbage in the general case but there

is

a mechanical argument to make in this setup if we're always sparing; I have always hated the idea of limming someone because their flip will be high-info but you can make a compelling argument in this setup that, if the person in question was never-ever-under-no-circumstances going to be spared, and that they are a high-info flip, you should flip them because it's no harm to the town even if they're town. The counterargument (which I tend to agree with even in this setup) is that there

is

always a chance of perceptions changing on someone, especially given that we're likely going to have to go all the way to 4:3 and/or 3:2, where likely everyone alive will be "in the PoE" to some degree, and so "i'm never gonna be spared anyway" is a bad argument. The other counterargument is a strict EV reading of things where we assume spares are random every day in which case obviously we want to lim scum today above all else.

[implosion]

The other counterargument to what Bingle is saying is i don't think a bingle townflip helps us in the slightest lmao

[implosion]

I am tending to go back to thinking (/agreeing with dann) that Ydrasse is just likely to be town here.

[RCEnigma]

Does this make one of Bingle/RCEnigma a wolf? It sort of makes me want to move my vote but that's really greedy so I shall just sit here and just, ya know sit with this thought in my head. I share the opinion with Dann that I don't really understand the Implo townreads but my read on them has gotten a tad lower because of the public opinion. Maybe I shouldn't follow that though? It's hard because I like to trust overall say vs my own, especially in a game where people seem very familiar. Feeling like a double voter.


The downside of Taly being the first spare is I don't get to log on and smile at Taly posting noise. It's charming.

Why this dichotomy?

[Alisae]

yep I pretty much stayed in bed all day

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Read like 5 or 10 pages and realized as we're on D2 I should check the flip, then I skimmed meuh's ISO...

So, sorry if it's been addressed already, but if we go mercy/spare, are the spared players flipped and removed from game as though they are eliminated, or is it flipless, or are they flipped and allowed to continue posting/voting until they are NKed?

[Freedom]

maybe the game

is

as easy as

Freedom/Bingle/X

Tragically my flip will probably make your life harder.

[Freedom]

I swear that Bingle wanting to be limmed is ???

[Freedom]

As in I'm pretty sure that it's to bank on something similar to Meuh's flip.

[Alisae]

can we just kill implo

[Isis]

Votecount 2.2

() -

he/him

Dannflor

(1) - Freedom

he/him

RCEnigma

(1) - Bingle,

Lazy Shirou

(0) -

He/him

Bingle

(2) - Dannflor, Sakura Hana,

Sakura Hana

(0) -

She/her

Freedom

(4) - RCEnigma, Keyleth, Lazy Shirou, Taly,

he/him, they/them

Keyleth

(0) -

She/her

Ydrasse

(0) -
She

Alisae

(0) -

Taly

(0) -

He/She

implosion

(1) - Alisae,

he/him

ssbm_Kyouko

(0) -
She/Her

Not Voting

- (4) Ydrasse, implosion, ssbm_Kyouko, Dunnstral,

(expired on 2023-12-02 03:17:50)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I actually sort of feel the opposite, I think it it gets into a big game of people fighting to be the most town it becomes a lot harder to solve, but I don't think it's as important whether we spare or kill as not sparing scum!Dunnstral and not killing town!Dunnstral.

Really? In my experience of video mafia and other stuff it at least felt a lot harder for wolves to fake a townread on their teammate vs making a wolfcase on inconsistencies of weaknesses villagers do. Maybe I'm incorrect in my theory and have a bit of choo choo brain because of my urge to send over all of Dann/You/Taly

I'm here right now. I read the first 5 pages and the Meuh ISO on mobile so there's less comprehension there.

Town: Dann/Mandate/Keyleth
leantown: Taly
Questionable and to be followed up: Dunnstral's 335/336 - I'm not liking the Sakura posting atp and I don't recall Brown Eyes/Merlyn's posts which is why I need to follow up on the Brown Eyes/Merlyn reads
scum: aristea/sakura

TR on Dannflor is probably too easy but I have a feeling this is not deepwolfing

Anyways, chose to quote this post because I really disagree with a lot of Keyleth's reads in this post but they feel so far off of my own reads and they align so well with what I perceive Keyleth's experience in this game to be that they must be coming from town. Which is why I'm now going to take Keyleth out of leantown where she was as I was writing this sentence and put her up with Dann/Mandate.

I've had problems with all of Sakura's posting so far except for one post that was a pagetop a couple of pages ago, and from aristea I'd been getting light pings up to the point that I saw an interaction between her and Shirou where she sort of drives a wedge between Shirou and Meuh. Shirou had voiced Meuh makes a towny post, then Aristea comments on Shirou's post and Shirou turns around and is like "well actually I don't TR Meuh" and not long after that I think Shirou actually votes Meuh. Even without the Meuh flip this pings me as some possible buddying up to town!Shirou. There's also Aristea saying she will cooperate with whatever townbloc Mandate forms later which again feels like possible buddying up with Mandate who I feel strongly is town.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Was looking at the most recent VC and seeing Aristeia's replacement's replacement leading the VC on the leading wagon I just want to counter right now

VOTE: RCEnigma

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Am curious about your vote brown eyes.

Care to elaborate?

Fairly bad entrance, I think. She indicated in 208 that she had read the thread, yet her first posts were fairly unsubstantial in a way that feels like she was trying to look productive. I also think that given the opinion she gives in 211 that she expects townies who are pushed in an overbearing way to find it annoying and push back, her questions to Taly seem somewhat strange and informed:

its strange that you are saying mandate is "griefing" you because doesnt that assume mandate is town?

like if mandate is mafia and you're town then this wouldn't be a grief it would just be hyper aggression lining up lims and seizing thread control - your lack of any suspicion of this push is kind of ?? to me.

If I were in this situation, I would just

ask

Taly what her read on you is. It's hard to phrase this, but it feels more like she's just pointing something out rather than actually trying to interrogate anything.

based, fuego, rare, and scathing take

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I currently lean towards mafia on Taly's alignment currently.

I think it's pretty obvious I thought Taly was scummy when I made post 191 & 194.

said currently twice, caught scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

not sarcasm

[Taly]

huh