Mini Normal 2319: Flavorless Hell | Day 5

[Aliana]

idk if we can trust Aliana. I don't think she has any mod experience. She ain't no Alianna or anything.

*quacks angrily*

[Altaria]

If we kill the JK target and they are town then we'll need to determine if a) Dragon is lying or b) scum no-killed to frame someone. This may be obvious but I felt like saying it

I already have my theories for who it could be in scenario B

If scum no-killed, that means they felt that framing someone was worth leaving a claimed JK alive another night and giving town an extra execution. Not saying it's impossible but might say something about the kind of position they were in.

Yeah it doesn't feel super likely, but my paranoid brain is telling me they could do this and then act like it's not super likely

[Altaria]

If scum no-killed I think it would probably just be Umlaut but a have a nagging gut feeling that it could be Aliana

[Doctor Drew]

If we kill the JK target and they are town then we'll need to determine if a) Dragon is lying or b) scum no-killed to frame someone. This may be obvious but I felt like saying it

I already have my theories for who it could be in scenario B

If scum no-killed, that means they felt that framing someone was worth leaving a claimed JK alive another night and giving town an extra execution. Not saying it's impossible but might say something about the kind of position they were in.

'Sometime Enchant is just scum' applies here.

Realistically the most obvious thing that happened was that scum tried to NK someone and it was blocked in some way, even if Dragon is scum who lied about being the JK.

I don't think scum is really in any position to get cute here.

[Altaria]

Realistically the most obvious thing that happened was that scum tried to NK someone and it was blocked in some way, even if Dragon is scum who lied about being the JK.

I didn't think about scum!Dragon getting blocked. I figured he would no-kill to frame someone if he's lying

[Aliana]

If scum no-killed I think it would probably just be Umlaut but a have a nagging gut feeling that it could be Aliana

I think scum!me would just play optimally here instead of putting myself at a mechanical disadvantage with weird WIFOM plays.
(or maybe that's just what I want you to think...)

[Aliana]

If we kill the JK target and they are town then we'll need to determine if a) Dragon is lying or b) scum no-killed to frame someone. This may be obvious but I felt like saying it

I already have my theories for who it could be in scenario B

If scum no-killed, that means they felt that framing someone was worth leaving a claimed JK alive another night and giving town an extra execution. Not saying it's impossible but might say something about the kind of position they were in.

'Sometime Enchant is just scum' applies here.

Realistically the most obvious thing that happened was that scum tried to NK someone and it was blocked in some way, even if Dragon is scum who lied about being the JK.

I don't think scum is really in any position to get cute here.

Yeah. Not impossible but definitely not likely.

[Aliana]

Realistically the most obvious thing that happened was that scum tried to NK someone and it was blocked in some way, even if Dragon is scum who lied about being the JK.

I didn't think about scum!Dragon getting blocked. I figured he would no-kill to frame someone if he's lying

If Dragon was roleblocked, that should be claimed, right?

[Altaria]

If scum no-killed I think it would probably just be Umlaut but a have a nagging gut feeling that it could be Aliana

I think scum!me would just play optimally here instead of putting myself at a mechanical disadvantage with weird WIFOM plays.
(or maybe that's just what I want you to think...)

Yeah, maybe. I want to believe you. I'm trying to gauge just how big of a disadvantage it would be for you. Dragon claims his target which probably wasn't you since I'm pretty sure he townread you. We kill said target, they flip town. Not sure what you would do as scum N2...no-kill again? I don't think you could kill Dragon because you would probably want to frame him as a liar D3. Maybe just kill some townread player or a suspected PR. We fade Dragon D3, he flips JK, and then it's anyone's guess as to who the sneaky lil liar is. You kill someone N3. That's 4 townies dead from this play, leaving 6 alive on D4, you plus 5 town

Doesn't really seem great I guess but it would get you pretty deep into the game with lots of dead townies along the way

[Altaria]

Realistically the most obvious thing that happened was that scum tried to NK someone and it was blocked in some way, even if Dragon is scum who lied about being the JK.

I didn't think about scum!Dragon getting blocked. I figured he would no-kill to frame someone if he's lying

If Dragon was roleblocked, that should be claimed, right?

I want to say yeah but I don't think that's likely here. The RBer would be trolling

[Altaria]

If scum no-killed I think it would probably just be Umlaut but a have a nagging gut feeling that it could be Aliana

I think scum!me would just play optimally here instead of putting myself at a mechanical disadvantage with weird WIFOM plays.
(or maybe that's just what I want you to think...)

Yeah, maybe. I want to believe you. I'm trying to gauge just how big of a disadvantage it would be for you. Dragon claims his target which probably wasn't you since I'm pretty sure he townread you. We kill said target, they flip town. Not sure what you would do as scum N2...no-kill again? I don't think you could kill Dragon because you would probably want to frame him as a liar D3. Maybe just kill some townread player or a suspected PR. We fade Dragon D3, he flips JK, and then it's anyone's guess as to who the sneaky lil liar is. You kill someone N3. That's 4 townies dead from this play, leaving 6 alive on D4, you plus 5 town

Doesn't really seem great I guess but it would get you pretty deep into the game with lots of dead townies along the way

Continuing this thought. If you managed to fade a townie on D4 then you could get to kill another on N4 and then it would be ELO with you an 2 townies

The other play for you would be to kill Dragon N1 and then you're stuck with 8 townies that you have to get through

Does this play really sound all that bad from a scum!you perspective?

[Aliana]

If scum no-killed I think it would probably just be Umlaut but a have a nagging gut feeling that it could be Aliana

I think scum!me would just play optimally here instead of putting myself at a mechanical disadvantage with weird WIFOM plays.
(or maybe that's just what I want you to think...)

Yeah, maybe. I want to believe you. I'm trying to gauge just how big of a disadvantage it would be for you. Dragon claims his target which probably wasn't you since I'm pretty sure he townread you. We kill said target, they flip town. Not sure what you would do as scum N2...no-kill again? I don't think you could kill Dragon because you would probably want to frame him as a liar D3. Maybe just kill some townread player or a suspected PR. We fade Dragon D3, he flips JK, and then it's anyone's guess as to who the sneaky lil liar is. You kill someone N3. That's 4 townies dead from this play, leaving 6 alive on D4, you plus 5 town

Doesn't really seem great I guess but it would get you pretty deep into the game with lots of dead townies along the way

Continuing this thought. If you managed to fade a townie on D4 then you could get to kill another on N4 and then it would be ELO with you an 2 townies

The other play for you would be to kill Dragon N1 and then you're stuck with 8 townies that you have to get through

Does this play really sound all that bad from a scum!you perspective?

Ehhh...maybe it's not terrible. I'd have to actually math out all the scenarios.

[Black]

I think scum is able to misfade Dragon regardless of which play they choose, and in the no-kill play they are able to take a few others down in the domino effect. It might actually be the better play

Regardless, I think the right play for town here is to fade the JK target and just work from there. Even if scum no-killed I think I would be more inclined to believe it was Umlaut over you. Neither of you had great interactions with gob imo but his seem far worse

[Altaria]

CRAP

[Altaria]

Can I just be replaced by my main account or something? XD

[Celebloki]

I was just in a game recently where Elements did this with an alt account. She ultimately replaced in with her main account lol.

[Altaria]

I was just in a game recently where Elements did this with an alt account. She ultimately replaced in with her main account lol.

I will message the mod. I guess the only downside would be the split isos

[Aliana]

Thing I am pondering: if Dragon is scum, does he really claim JK and then continue to sit on his partner? Because after that, he either has to kill and confirm someone as town every day (if there's only one scum, which there probably is, a kill going through clears his target), or no-kill and then get called a liar when his "target" flips town. Oh, and not to mention deal with all the questions about why he's not dead on Day 5. The claim would seem to screw him over quite badly if he's maf. At the very least, it would be better for him to keep his buddy alive if he's going to claim that, which does not align with the way he actually played yesterday.

[T3]

Black replaces Altaria.

[Black]

Thing I am pondering: if Dragon is scum, does he really claim JK and then continue to sit on his partner? Because after that, he either has to kill and confirm someone as town every day (if there's only one scum, which there probably is, a kill going through clears his target), or no-kill and then get called a liar when his "target" flips town. Oh, and not to mention deal with all the questions about why he's not dead on Day 5. The claim would seem to screw him over quite badly if he's maf. At the very least, it would be better for him to keep his buddy alive if he's going to claim that, which does not align with the way he actually played yesterday.

Yeah I think Dragon being scum is probably the least likely of the scenarios here

Most likely - Dragon blocked the kill, we fade the target and gg

Somewhat likely - Umlaut/Aliana or some other competent player no-killed to frame Dragon

Not very likely - Dragon lied and no-killed to frame someone

[Celebloki]

Extremely Likely - Dragon doesn't post and lets rampant conspiracy theories get woven.

Hopefully occam's razor is correct and Dragon has a smoking gun to point at. I feel like all the crazier scenario's are just so not likely.

[Black]

Hopefully occam's razor is correct and Dragon has a smoking gun to point at. I feel like all the crazier scenario's are just so not likely.

Do you consider scum no-killing to frame Dragon a crazy scenario?

[Celebloki]

I guess I just haven't seen it, I feel like the prevailing philosophy is maximize what you can do. Obviously holstering a N-Shot makes sense, but a factional NK should just be used every night. I think the longest shot here is that scum holstered. It's far more likely there was a role block or protection that happened. I think getting lost in the sauce on this day over the wilder scenario's might just muddy the waters. If we lim someone that Dragon points at and it's town, the crazier scenarios get looked at tomorrow.

[Black]

If we lim someone that Dragon points at and it's town, the crazier scenarios get looked at tomorrow.

Agreed

[Aliana]

If Dragon's target flips town, I'll probably still townread him tbh.