open 894: near vanilla (game over)

[JupiterXV]

I can't work out if Jupiter admitting to lying twice in like five pages is as scummy as it seems....

But Dan is right: you did unvote because she....posted..you didn't revote her because you didn't find what she posted scummy?

okay, let's go through the stages.
1. i notice titus nto doing much
2. i vote titus
3. i admit that my vote is primarily a pressure vote. it doesn't go anywhere.
4. titus responds
5. without having read it, i give a sigh of relief and remove my vote.
6. i read it and respond. i acknowledge that maybe there was stuff i missed and that i should probably reevaluate, thinking back to what dann said about his townread on titus.
7. and i think to myself that continuing to pressure someone who doesn't seem to be enjoying the game very much is pretty scummy. not in the mafia kind of scummy way, but i don't want to ruin someone else's game experience.
8. i move titus up to around the null section, and i tell myself i will revisit and reevaluate later.
9. all of this is happening now

i don't think omitting part of my motive is the same as lying.

[OutWorldER]

Hi, I return. Apologies for the absence. Here's a wall of quotes I wanted to respond to while catching up

Spoiler: Quotes Wall

Not sure I agree with OutWorldER at 211 . In fact I don’t agree. Getting to the content I don’t agree that saying you would need a lot to switch reads is not town.

That wasn't the way he phrased it to me though. He said it would be a "pretty big swing to switch those reads right now" which reads to me like he's judging how jarring other townies would find his switch, not that he was dissatisfied with the evidence presented.

Right, in regards to catching up. I want to note in particular that OutWorldER's responses overall are giving me a strong tr on him, and as far as D1 reads go it's the most solid I currently have.
-SNIP-

Could you elaborate on why you're townreading me? If it's the strongest read you have, then I think you should be able to articulate it. Frankly, I myself aren't so sure what exactly I've done so far that exudes towniness.

I understand the scum reads on Jupiter

I think they have a posting style that is very stream of consciousness and somewhat performative and I tend to scum read that type of posting style a lot. But idk currently I feel that is more a sign of personality than a sign of alignment in this game

But like I *get* it

What, specifically, in Jupiter's posting allows you to make the distinction between alignment and personality?

Kurtapika > T3 > Black

these are dannflor approved wagons in about the order i feel comfortable wagoning them

What is your Black case, again? I'm not sure if I missed it while trying to read back up but I couldn't find where you give an exact reason for suspecting Black.

I'm kind of torn because I think Dann is a comfortable townread for me right now, but I also feel like Kurta's move onto Skygazer could be genuine, and the over-justification is simply a symptom of being in an unfamiliar meta. But even that said, they're a nullish read for me at best right now, voting low-content/low-activity slots is a very classic scum move to appear townie, and I'm general agreement with Dann here that the very diluted votes here and sheer amount of vanity votes is hurting Town's ability to read the game.

I'm going to VOTE: Kurtapika here to consolidate. I'm comfortable here or on shaddowez.

[ProjEctRy]

I don’t like this idea. To me that is not the best move for town, just a random lim on a low contributor. I appreciate there is likely scum essentially hiding in the shadows but it’s a complete shot in the dark.

Surely it’s better to lim someone specific we have some suspicion over rather than just a complete random lim?

This might be my differing experience with the styles of mafia games but it's my feeling that with this one at least, the majority of suspicions at D1 are going to essentially amount to a random lim. I would agree if it was a strong suspicion as to have most people on them, but we haven't reached that point at the moment, and this way even if temporarily votes can be effective in spite of lack of consensus. It seems beneficial to town to have a higher bar of content for scum to clear, at least if my thinking on this strategy does follow with site meta.

Is POE replying to the eliminating least content or ProjEct talking about eliminating a suspicion?

To some degree I can understand your point that most day 1 votes are random, to the extent that reads are weak so it can feel like we are clutching at straws. However, those votes still offer us more than a random elimination on a low contributor.

As Bella 346 and Black 350 point out, there is no analysis to be gained if we eliminate a low contributor and its wrong.

[ProjEctRy]

Also, you don't buy it because you don't agree, or you think we're scum buddies, or I'm making stuff up? It's important to know which one

More of a disagreement.

I do certainly disagree - As mentioned I don’t support a pass just because you may be able to read them better later in the game.

But, whilst I certainly find the premise anti-town, I’m not sure this specific issue makes me think you’re scum. What holds me back is that the motivation if scum would be that you were partners, however your position would be far too obvious / revealing which makes me think that’s not the case and it’s just a disagreement.

[JupiterXV]

shaddow's push on me is still incredibly weird. maybe i'm biased but i think my vote on t3 was pretty obviously a RVS vote and no one at all at the time was voting t3 seriously? it's not like opportunism or whatever, ive never actually scumread t3 (because as I said, t3's been hovering around null range for a while and going up and down) and i've made this pretty abundantly clear. not quite sure how to read them doubling down on this (because i'm pretty sure scum would pursue an easier vote? me personally i would go for path of least resistance as scum and iirc i'm commonly townread)

can we please talk about this more? am i the only one noticing this???

[Kurtapika]

I don't think it would be completely random because I think certain players are prone to lurking as scum but I see what you're saying here

To add to this I think fading low information slots is probably a lot worse than someone who's flip could give us some insight into the rest of the playerlist

I hadn't considered this but this is true. In the case of looking at flips I'd be interested in the result from someone like Afrayed Knott or shaddowez, I feel those could be more indicative of team with their having more select interactions than anyone.

Feeling weird about the seeming over reliance on meta during the hard push from Bella (and Afrayed Knott in 413) but it doesn't come across as overtly scummy per se. Finding the response with 376 interesting.

I honestly don't disagree with 393, I'm fairly used to doing this in terms of trying to cover bases in a single post for the sake of not seeming wishy washy and giving complete info with each one (my TZ can have a lack of this screwed over in forum format) so it comes across this way every so often. Though since I've been here it's looking like doubleposting is more encouraged, so I guess that becomes null.

I mainly believe that in a game state like we have now it becomes much more useful to find those that are considered securely town than it is to necessarily fish for scum vibes, but Dannflor does make a point via 453. That does add to prioritising being viewed as town by other townies though and I should think it'd be helpful for town to have been doing so regardless. I'm unsure about how exactly the terminology is used as far as POE vs policy lim goes so I can't actually respond to 447 on this but I will note the above has been what I understand it to be in reply to 459.

Jupiter's 476 is extremely confusing, what does this mean? Why lie? What thought process did you have behind that sequence of statements? 491 seems like an accurate reading but moreover I want to know why they've felt intimidated by Dannflor in the first place, AFAICT there seems no reason to be as town regardless of whether you tr or sr him?

[JupiterXV]

Jupiter's 476 is extremely confusing, what does this mean? Why lie? What thought process did you have behind that sequence of statements?

I skimmed your post and didn't finish it. Thus I declared it as generally towny without having fully read it. Acting like I had was going to dig me into a deeper hole, so I decided against it and told everyone that I hadn't read it in full.

[Titus]

Spoiler:

Zoey Tung by Kuo Huan Kao for Bella Taiwan November 2023

vote count 1.5 !

Bellaphant (2):

T3, Black

T3 (2):

Nono, Aisa

Kurtapika (2):

Titus, Dannflor

Dannflor (1):

Skygazer

JupiterXV (2):

shaddowez

shaddowez (1):

OutWorldER

Titus (1):

JupiterXV

Skygazer (1):

Kurtapika

Black (1):

Afrayed Knott

not voting (2):

ProjEctRy, Bellaphant

with 14 alive, it takes 8 to over-represent someone's malice. day 1 ends in (expired on 2023-12-06 13:48:14)

moderateur notes

• t3 is VLA for a short while
  
• burger

@ Mod

can you check the game countdown please. it seems to be stuck. and is it 12 days or 7?

thanks

it was 12 days from the start of the game day, which was november 24th. so slightly less than seven days now. i don't see it stuck, the number accurately reflects the amount of time left for me.

@Mod - Is Shadow a double voter?

[Titus]

kurtapika's 335 is good

no it's really not

Why?

[Titus]

Kurta is definitely going least resistance route.

[Titus]

To add to this I think fading low information slots is probably a lot worse than someone who's flip could give us some insight into the rest of the playerlist

Following up on the above, Kurtapika is recommending a policy lim on low info players in 335, so why the TR and no questioning of this play if you don't like it?

i didn't really read it like a policy lim, more like a PoE?

Are you reading the same post?

[Titus]

i mean they're voting skygazer for a similar reason to me voting titus right? i'm voting titus to get her reaction, and prompt her to be more active
voting lowposters -> get a reaction from the lowposter -> make them no longer a lowposter?

A low poster is a low poster. I've been prepping for a trial that started all week. No amount of pressure is going to change that. Pressure can generate posts. It's okay ish at the start if you're looking for a specific thing.

Voting a lurker for lurking generally gets nowhere in games with substantial content to get reads from. It's okay ish if hard townreading all actives but we aren't at that point yet.

[Titus]

Everyone, please try to use proper grammar. It's very hard to understand posts that don't have it.

is it okay if i type like this (without capital letters?)

I am not a grammar jerk but extensive errors like run ons without spaces between paragraphs are hard. I don't use perfect grammar but incoherent posts get ignored as if they were never made.

[schadd_]

no, i just had the number wrong

[Titus]

I have a pocket scumread if K is scum. Reading for the third.

[JupiterXV]

Are you reading the same post?

i did go on to say that i did not actually read it

[JupiterXV]

A low poster is a low poster. I've been prepping for a trial that started all week. No amount of pressure is going to change that. Pressure can generate posts. It's okay ish at the start if you're looking for a specific thing.

Voting a lurker for lurking generally gets nowhere in games with substantial content to get reads from. It's okay ish if hard townreading all actives but we aren't at that point yet.

hard-townreading everyone who's active is not a good idea i think

[JupiterXV]

I am not a grammar jerk but extensive errors like run ons without spaces between paragraphs are hard. I don't use perfect grammar but incoherent posts get ignored as if they were never made.

ok cool ty

[Titus]

I think it's k plus t3 plus my pocket read.

[Titus]

If you do a find on t3 in k's ISO you find zero substantial comments there. A bit of preflip but yeah.

[JupiterXV]

one quick question before i go to sleep: kurtapika, since you've never actually expressed scumreads (you've just been talking about who's best to eliminate), what are they and why? you can just drop a username and a sentence or two of reasoning. i just wanna know

[Titus]

JupiterXV I'm here now...

[Titus]

one quick question before i go to sleep: kurtapika, since you've never actually expressed scumreads (you've just been talking about who's best to eliminate), what are they and why? you can just drop a username and a sentence or two of reasoning. i just wanna know

Hi....

[JupiterXV]

JupiterXV I'm here now...

im sleepy

[Titus]

Ok gut t3 + k, no reasons just impulse