open 894: near vanilla (game over)

[Skygazer]

The benefit for scum-you would be that you do think you could get away with it. You literally say 'I have a hunch that I'll continue getting away with it'. Your position is that the experienced players know what this is so they wouldn't vote you for it. Well then you could get away with it if you were really playing it from a scum angle.

i mean, i get away with it because most people have already realized i'll be like this regardless of alignment. okay, maybe in theory i could benefit as scum? but the benefit would literally just be "i don't have to contribute for a bit." but the argument that i'm doing this for a nefarious benefit doesn't hold any weight considering i do this like almost every game regardless of my alignment. it's like saying that someone who misyeeted a townie could be scum because they would benefit from a townie dying. like yes, it's technically true that scum benefit from misyeets, but town misyeet players all the time too.

[JupiterXV]

i mean sure on the surface level it seems solvey but i feel like his posts have a lot of fluff to them in a way that reads to me as more worried about optics/

putting on the appearance of solving

. i feel like his vote on me indicates that he's not actually putting that much thought into solving the game.

and immediately assuming its a pressure vote is certainly scummy. it's a weird conclusion to jump to off of a naked vote, kind of like those moments where scum assumes a guilty against them is a fake guilty rather than calling the guiltying part scum. it reads like someone who is too self-aware of their own optics and has been actively evaluating how people are reading them. i don't see how the prior post ties into anything other than both posts involve naked votes.

but i think project is more than capable of defending himself and i'd rather see him do that than someone else, thanks.

it clicks with me, then

[Skygazer]

there are other parts of his iso i dont like too fwiw

Care to share?

it feels like you're playing to get townread instead of playing to solve. can't find the words beyond that at the moment.

are you willing to find quotes? ive always found project's posts to be generally towny if not a bit hollow
[/quote]

see my 663

[JupiterXV]

but i think project is more than capable of defending himself and i'd rather see him do that than someone else, thanks.

I mean Project is my top townread so I'm going to raise my eyebrows when someone pushes that for reasons I don't think are valid. But ok I'll take a step back for now

tbh while the burden of proof is on sky, i'd argue this feels like a genuine push? particularly the tidbit about commenting on dann's vote and labelling it a "pressure vote"

[Skygazer]

I don’t like this idea. To me that is not the best move for town, just a random lim on a low contributor. I appreciate there is likely scum essentially hiding in the shadows but it’s a complete shot in the dark.

Surely it’s better to lim someone specific we have some suspicion over rather than just a complete random lim?

this feels at odds with his vote on me

VOTE: proj

i think his vote on you is because you pulled up and declared you wouldn't be doing much at all- while you were just inactive before now you're here but just saying you won't be contributing much

mmm but i don't understand what difference that makes. shitposting aside, i've very clearly indicated i want to start contributing at some point. idk

[JupiterXV]

mmm but i don't understand what difference that makes. shitposting aside, i've very clearly indicated i want to start contributing at some point. idk

oh yeah i know, i'm just trying to express what i understood about his vote, i guess? the thought progression from "don't vote lowposters" -> "let's vote sky" makes sense to me.
though i guess this vote on you did get you to be a bit more active in terms of gamestate so W for the thread i guess

[JupiterXV]

i dont wanna play mafia anymore im gonna play papa's pizzeria bye gang

[Skygazer]

There is a difference between the two positions.

I'm opposed to a pure random elimination on a low contributor - in this situation there is no suspicion whatsoever. The player has contributed nothing to gauge any suspicious.

The difference with you is that whilst my suspicion arises from your lack of contribution, I'm not voting for you purely because you haven't contributed, but rather due to your reasoning or attitude behind not contributing.

i mean, the oblivion thing was shitposting to some extent, as i clarified later. even so, i don't see any sort of functional difference between "i'm busy" and "i've been distracted by other things." so i don't think there's an actual difference between the two positions, i think you just wanted to make an easy push.

Maybe I’m missing something, but I don’t understand your post here? I’m wasn’t talking about a difference between ‘I’m busy’ and ‘I’ve been distracted by other things’. I was talking about the difference in eliminating someone based purely off of no content vs. eliminating someone based off of their reasoning for low contribution.

Also, I forgot when quoting your other part to respond to the question re: why I thought you were busy. I must have misinterpreted you.

what i'm getting at: in what way do you think my reasonings for not contributing make me any more likely to be scum?

anyways, i don't see how my reasonings could change your mind on the matter, because you also mentioned that eliminating a low poster will bring little to analyze, and me shitposting about oblivion doesn't give us an more to analyze than any other zero poster.

[Skygazer]

i dont wanna play mafia anymore im gonna play papa's pizzeria bye gang

understandable. i'm going to play oblivion the rest of the night as soon as i get home from work

[ProjEctRy]

VOTE: project

I think this is just a random pressure vote to gauge a reaction, but if not please share your reasons.

this is such a ridiculously scummy post.

VOTE: project

I think this is just a random pressure vote to gauge a reaction, but if not please share your reasons.

why do you assume it is a random pressure vote and why did you feel the need to tell me that's what you thought it was?

I don’t think it’s a scummy post. I’d asked about those type of posts (vote with no reasoning) and Afrayed explained it in 186 and Dann had done several of those posts so I though that is what this was.

As to why I noted that, it was more born out of an internal development - I’m new so I’m was conscious as to whether I’m correctly identifying things and by stating it I’d get a response which will inform me as to whether I am in fact correctly interpreting thing.

[ProjEctRy]

there are other parts of his iso i dont like too fwiw

Care to share?

it feels like you're playing to get townread instead of playing to solve. can't find the words beyond that at the moment.

I don't understand how you can look at Project's iso and come to this conclusion. He's pretty clearly trying to solve imo

I also don't think 627 is "ridiculously scummy" or even scummy at all considering his views on votes without reasons in 158

This push is kinda scummy

i mean sure on the surface level it seems solvey but i feel like his posts have a lot of fluff to them in a way that reads to me as more worried about optics/putting on the appearance of solving. i feel like his vote on me indicates that he's not actually putting that much thought into solving the game.

Isn’t fluff posts and not trying to solve the game exactly what you’ve been doing the majority of this game?

If that’s scummy then it applies to you too.

[ProjEctRy]

VOTE: Skygazer

Really not liking this push right after she admitted that it's easy for her to come up with scumreads as scum

skygazer does nothing: oh my god shes not doing anything!!

skygazer starts doing stuff in reaction to being attacked for doing nothing: oh my god she's making up reads!!

To me this reads your focus on me is reactionary. You think I’m scum because I’ve accused you.

[ProjEctRy]

Unfortunately, aside from now engaging me, I still don't think you have contributed anything meaningful today. You even state you're not going to 'make up reads' which I take to be provide any thoughts just because someone asked you to.

It also wasn't a wall just to justify my vote. We were having a discussion, I was responding to you.

what kind of contributions do you expect from someone who hasn't really participated whatsoever? it just seems like an arbitrary goal post shift, i don't get how you can look at someone who only just started contributing and complain that they haven't contributed enough. the contributions will take time, i can't provide thoughts when i don't have any yet.

You are saying we can’t expect contributions from you because you haven’t really participated, but the problem is that you had actually been active, just not meaningfully contributing to finding scum.

[ProjEctRy]

I don’t like this idea. To me that is not the best move for town, just a random lim on a low contributor. I appreciate there is likely scum essentially hiding in the shadows but it’s a complete shot in the dark.

Surely it’s better to lim someone specific we have some suspicion over rather than just a complete random lim?

this feels at odds with his vote on me

VOTE: proj

i think his vote on you is because you pulled up and declared you wouldn't be doing much at all- while you were just inactive before now you're here but just saying you won't be contributing much

mmm but i don't understand what difference that makes. shitposting aside, i've very clearly indicated i want to start contributing at some point. idk

But why is this allowed? Just because you are like this all the time, why should you be allowed to shitpost early and contribute later. If you as a player get this ‘exemption’ then when playing scum it effectively gives you a pass. Your position would be, ‘well don’t read into my lack of contribution, I always do this’.

And you wouldn’t have to maintain that style the full game. Advancing past day 1 under this style would still be progress if you were scum.

[OutWorldER]

I think Skygazer's case against Project is reasonable but I'm not liking how Skygazer is actually defending themselves here. A lot of "Well this is a bad play for scum to do so clearly I wouldn't be doing it" type arguments.

if it makes you feel better, i make these stupid self-meta arguments as both alignments. i purposefully dumbtell/badtell a lot as scum to try and reflect my town game. so i get where you're coming from

Your tone here seems a lot more cordial responding to me than you have been responding to almost everyone else you've talked to over the course of this little debacle. Is there a specific reason for that?

[Dannflor]

Projectry, do you have any scum reads outside of Skygazer?

[Skygazer]

I think Skygazer's case against Project is reasonable but I'm not liking how Skygazer is actually defending themselves here. A lot of "Well this is a bad play for scum to do so clearly I wouldn't be doing it" type arguments.

if it makes you feel better, i make these stupid self-meta arguments as both alignments. i purposefully dumbtell/badtell a lot as scum to try and reflect my town game. so i get where you're coming from

Your tone here seems a lot more cordial responding to me than you have been responding to almost everyone else you've talked to over the course of this little debacle. Is there a specific reason for that?

probably has something to do with the "i get where you're coming from" thing, you didn't really say anything that i think needed further pushing because i can see why that particular behavior of mine could set off alarm bells (and it has before, in fact)

[Skygazer]

Isn’t fluff posts and not trying to solve the game exactly what you’ve been doing the majority of this game?

If that’s scummy then it applies to you too.

no. the difference is that i'm rather open about it, and your fluff is more of an "inflate my word count to look like i'm putting in effort" kind of thing to my eyes.

[Skygazer]

To me this reads your focus on me is reactionary. You think I’m scum because I’ve accused you.

also no. i think you're scum for the reasons i've listed, not because you voted me. you set off alarm bells right when i was just getting started, which is why you were the first player i zoomed in on. outworld expressed suspicion of me and i didn't scumread that; so did kurtapika.

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: Skygazer

Think ultimately my distrust in Skygazer supersedes his points against Project. I think the way that Project has pushed this is mostly consistent with his earlier behavior; I don't think there's a huge inconsistency between 337 and 579, and I think the contrast of how un-confident he was in his earlier reads vs. how thoroughly he's thrown himself into the 1v1 vs Sky makes me believe this push is genuine. I get the feeling that Project genuinely thinks he's caught scum active lurking here.

Skygazer's tone when he's speaking to Jupiter, Project, and Black to some extent (in fact 647 was the post that tipped me off to this train of thought) vs. the way he talked to me and to some extent Afrayed is really giving me the vibes of "caught for the wrong reasons" mafia. Project's push on him is genuinely somewhat flawed, but the way Skygazer responded to it, and how invested he seems when doing so, is a large contrast to the "I'm just shitposting and chilling as town angle" he was selling earlier in the game.

I think I'm comfortable within a Skygazer, Kurtapika, shaddowez limpool for the day.

[Dannflor]

I think ultimately I am town reading Jupiter's admittance to not reading posts, lying about reading posts, and their general all-over-the-placeness. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for scum to embrace that sort of messy play in an attempt to get town read, but I kind of think the depth to which Jupiter went to explain themselves in 525, 649, and 667 reads more like frustrated town trying to explain themselves than scum who made an oopsie and is trying to embrace it. I feel like there would be a bigger emphasis on the "lalala I'm just a silly little person who isn't paying attention " in the latter case, whereas Jupiter's want to be "taken seriously" feels like a townie motivation

[Dannflor]

don't love 694

[Skygazer]

VOTE: Skygazer

Think ultimately my distrust in Skygazer supersedes his points against Project. I think the way that Project has pushed this is mostly consistent with his earlier behavior; I don't think there's a huge inconsistency between 337 and 579, and I think the contrast of how un-confident he was in his earlier reads vs. how thoroughly he's thrown himself into the 1v1 vs Sky makes me believe this push is genuine. I get the feeling that Project genuinely thinks he's caught scum active lurking here.

Skygazer's tone when he's speaking to Jupiter, Project, and Black to some extent (in fact 647 was the post that tipped me off to this train of thought) vs. the way he talked to me and to some extent Afrayed is really giving me the vibes of "caught for the wrong reasons" mafia. Project's push on him is genuinely somewhat flawed, but the way Skygazer responded to it, and how invested he seems when doing so, is a large contrast to the "I'm just shitposting and chilling as town angle" he was selling earlier in the game.

I think I'm comfortable within a Skygazer, Kurtapika, shaddowez limpool for the day.

so basically, when i shitpost i get flak for not taking things seriously i get flak, and when i take things seriously i get flak because i'm not shitposting? lol

it is very much not a "caught for the wrong reasons" thing though. i still think yours and AK's takes were flawed (obviously), but i really don't see a need to push either you when i think town thought processes could lead to those takes. stuff that black and project posted made me want to grill them on it to see what happens. i'm also not scumreading jupiter and i don't really see how my tone is off with them, elaborate on that

[Skygazer]

VOTE: Skygazer

Think ultimately my distrust in Skygazer supersedes his points against Project. I think the way that Project has pushed this is mostly consistent with his earlier behavior; I don't think there's a huge inconsistency between 337 and 579, and I think the contrast of how un-confident he was in his earlier reads vs. how thoroughly he's thrown himself into the 1v1 vs Sky makes me believe this push is genuine. I get the feeling that Project genuinely thinks he's caught scum active lurking here.

Skygazer's tone when he's speaking to Jupiter, Project, and Black to some extent (in fact 647 was the post that tipped me off to this train of thought) vs. the way he talked to me and to some extent Afrayed is really giving me the vibes of "caught for the wrong reasons" mafia. Project's push on him is genuinely somewhat flawed, but the way Skygazer responded to it, and how invested he seems when doing so, is a large contrast to the "I'm just shitposting and chilling as town angle" he was selling earlier in the game.

I think I'm comfortable within a Skygazer, Kurtapika, shaddowez limpool for the day.

so basically, when i shitpost i get flak for not taking things seriously i get flak, and when i take things seriously i get flak because i'm not shitposting? lol

it is very much not a "caught for the wrong reasons" thing though. i still think yours and AK's takes were flawed (obviously), but i really don't see a need to push either

of

you when i think town thought processes could lead to those takes. stuff that black and project posted made me want to grill them on it to see what happens. i'm also not scumreading jupiter and i don't really see how my tone is off with them, elaborate on that

ebwop

[Skygazer]

ah dang not gonna bother doing another ebwop