open 894: near vanilla (game over)

[Skygazer]

oblivion time bye

[ProjEctRy]

Projectry, do you have any scum reads outside of Skygazer?

Yes I have, but they’re weak. They are:

T3 - I was initially suspicious of T3 as per my post at 76. At 113 I noted I was likely to place my vote on T3. I never got to that because I wanted to hear more from T3, but then he went VLA, so that thought was placed on hold.

Kurtapika - Peaked my interest with his town read on you at 60. By that point I didn’t feel the read was justified. See my posts 144 and 249.

Then I was concerned with his position regarding a purely random elimination of low contribution. See my posts 337 and 527. I’ve since distinguished the difference between this and my position with Sky.

Bella - I was suspicious of Bella ruling out Titus at 207. See my posts 251 and 364.

My suspicions are admittedly weak, but being new I’ve found it difficult to develop my reads. There has been a lot of content the past couple of days and I’ve found it difficult to analyse it all. Some of the analysis others make I just think I’m not capable of doing so myself at this stage. Then today I’ve been involved with Sky so I haven’t really been able to further analysis my other leads.

[Skygazer]

actually real quick: slightly worried that dannflor is whiteknighting me but eh idk

[ProjEctRy]

Isn’t fluff posts and not trying to solve the game exactly what you’ve been doing the majority of this game?

If that’s scummy then it applies to you too.

no. the difference is that i'm rather open about it, and your fluff is more of an "inflate my word count to look like i'm putting in effort" kind of thing to my eyes.

It isn’t about ‘inflating my word count to look like I’m putting in effort’. I’ve been directly responding to people. If I ignore everyone and don’t post that doesn’t help the game develop and you’d just complain I’m not answering you.

[Dannflor]

actually real quick: slightly worried that dannflor is whiteknighting me but eh idk

that's fair but no

[Titus]

I must do work things.

[OutWorldER]

VOTE: Skygazer

Think ultimately my distrust in Skygazer supersedes his points against Project. I think the way that Project has pushed this is mostly consistent with his earlier behavior; I don't think there's a huge inconsistency between 337 and 579, and I think the contrast of how un-confident he was in his earlier reads vs. how thoroughly he's thrown himself into the 1v1 vs Sky makes me believe this push is genuine. I get the feeling that Project genuinely thinks he's caught scum active lurking here.

Skygazer's tone when he's speaking to Jupiter, Project, and Black to some extent (in fact 647 was the post that tipped me off to this train of thought) vs. the way he talked to me and to some extent Afrayed is really giving me the vibes of "caught for the wrong reasons" mafia. Project's push on him is genuinely somewhat flawed, but the way Skygazer responded to it, and how invested he seems when doing so, is a large contrast to the "I'm just shitposting and chilling as town angle" he was selling earlier in the game.

I think I'm comfortable within a Skygazer, Kurtapika, shaddowez limpool for the day.

so basically, when i shitpost i get flak for not taking things seriously i get flak, and when i take things seriously i get flak because i'm not shitposting? lol

it is very much not a "caught for the wrong reasons" thing though. i still think yours and AK's takes were flawed (obviously), but i really don't see a need to push either you when i think town thought processes could lead to those takes. stuff that black and project posted made me want to grill them on it to see what happens. i'm also not scumreading jupiter and i don't really see how my tone is off with them, elaborate on that

I'm very much not scumreading you for "taking things seriously" and boiling it down to that level of simplicity feels incredibly disingenuous. My specific take was that the level of frustration you showed, as well as the overall level of concern you had for Jupiter, Project, and Black's takes on you, were very much in contrast to the easygoing persona you were cultivating earlier in the game. Posts like 642 and 664 are incredibly snarky, and the latter in particular is an oversimplification of the post you're quoting, which is the Jupiter interaction I was specifically thinking of.

Your defenses here consist mostly of self-meta and appeals to ridicule. The way you go about it feels as though you find the arguments both absurd but also are genuinely concerned about them, which is where I derive the "caught for wrong reasons" conclusion from. You're still doing it, even with the first sentence of this post.

[Dannflor]

VOTE: project

I think this is just a random pressure vote to gauge a reaction, but if not please share your reasons.

I have a problem with this post and it's that instead of just asking me why I was voting you, you also prefaced it with this hypothesis that it was "just" a random pressure vote.

Your answer in 684 doesn't really help me feel better about it either.

It feels like this preface was added to appease or placate me in some way. Like, you guessed it was probably a random pressure vote but didn't want to seem like you were coming off as too defensive or too bothered by the vote and so added that in there so you could ask me about it without seeming too bothered by it.

But, I feel like if you were town who thought I'd thrown you a random pressure vote you would have either:

• Not bothered with acknowledging my post at all.
  
• Asked me why I voted you and waited to see if my answer matched up with your hypothesis.

The second option in particular would've satisfied your want to know if you're "identifying things correctly" AND might have let you figure out something about my alignment.

It's also kind of weird because I feel like that post comes from the point of view where you're assuming I'm town and have town intentions with a random pressure vote. But, I wouldn't necessarily assume that out of someone randomly voting me even if I did town read them before hand.

[Dannflor]

Isn’t fluff posts and not trying to solve the game exactly what you’ve been doing the majority of this game?

If that’s scummy then it applies to you too.

But why is this allowed? Just because you are like this all the time, why should you be allowed to shitpost early and contribute later. If you as a player get this ‘exemption’ then when playing scum it effectively gives you a pass. Your position would be, ‘well don’t read into my lack of contribution, I always do this’.

And you wouldn’t have to maintain that style the full game. Advancing past day 1 under this style would still be progress if you were scum.

I also find Project's back and forth with Skygazer less focused on trying to determine Skygazer's alignment and more focused on winning the argument and also what should be considered fair.

I think the "why is this allowed" tone in the second post is very emblematic of the type of tone I see come from scum a lot of the time. It's kind of a reverse "caught for the wrong reasons" type of read. It's more like... this townie is doing something OBJECTIVELY scummy so they SHOULD be scum read for it.

I don't know. It doesn't feel like Projectry is super honestly engaging with Skygazer. I feel like at a minimum Projectry should recognize that this exact pattern of play probably isn't AI for Skygazer and start focusing on other elements of her play, but instead Projectry launches into how it like, shouldn't be allowed that Skygazer *gets* to play like this. I feel like that's a line of thought much more likely to come from scum who feels like a towny shouldn't be allowed to act so scummy and get away with it.

[Dannflor]

I get the feeling that Project genuinely thinks he's caught scum active lurking here.

I kind of don't?

[Skygazer]

VOTE: Skygazer

Think ultimately my distrust in Skygazer supersedes his points against Project. I think the way that Project has pushed this is mostly consistent with his earlier behavior; I don't think there's a huge inconsistency between 337 and 579, and I think the contrast of how un-confident he was in his earlier reads vs. how thoroughly he's thrown himself into the 1v1 vs Sky makes me believe this push is genuine. I get the feeling that Project genuinely thinks he's caught scum active lurking here.

Skygazer's tone when he's speaking to Jupiter, Project, and Black to some extent (in fact 647 was the post that tipped me off to this train of thought) vs. the way he talked to me and to some extent Afrayed is really giving me the vibes of "caught for the wrong reasons" mafia. Project's push on him is genuinely somewhat flawed, but the way Skygazer responded to it, and how invested he seems when doing so, is a large contrast to the "I'm just shitposting and chilling as town angle" he was selling earlier in the game.

I think I'm comfortable within a Skygazer, Kurtapika, shaddowez limpool for the day.

so basically, when i shitpost i get flak for not taking things seriously i get flak, and when i take things seriously i get flak because i'm not shitposting? lol

it is very much not a "caught for the wrong reasons" thing though. i still think yours and AK's takes were flawed (obviously), but i really don't see a need to push either you when i think town thought processes could lead to those takes. stuff that black and project posted made me want to grill them on it to see what happens. i'm also not scumreading jupiter and i don't really see how my tone is off with them, elaborate on that

I'm very much not scumreading you for "taking things seriously" and boiling it down to that level of simplicity feels incredibly disingenuous. My specific take was that the level of frustration you showed, as well as the overall level of concern you had for Jupiter, Project, and Black's takes on you, were very much in contrast to the easygoing persona you were cultivating earlier in the game. Posts like 642 and 664 are incredibly snarky, and the latter in particular is an oversimplification of the post you're quoting, which is the Jupiter interaction I was specifically thinking of.

Your defenses here consist mostly of self-meta and appeals to ridicule. The way you go about it feels as though you find the arguments both absurd but also are genuinely concerned about them, which is where I derive the "caught for wrong reasons" conclusion from. You're still doing it, even with the first sentence of this post.

i don't think it's disingenous considering you literally used the phrase "how invested he is" and compared that to when i was not taking things seriously, but maybe thats just a verbiage misunderstanding on my part

i get annoyed when i'm scumread, hence the snark. it's incredibly annoying that in every town game i play, i'll get scumread for something nai no matter what. in this instance it seems like some people are scumreading me for not caring and some people are scumreading me for suddenly caring. so yeah a catch 22 is gonna frustrate me.

i don't think 664 is an oversimplification considering they literally said me caring enough to argue with black caused them to flip their read??

[Dannflor]

actually real quick: slightly worried that dannflor is whiteknighting me but eh idk

actually idk if this is fair given I haven't actually expressed a read on you yet i don't think

well maybe now I have implied one by my read on Projectry but I hadn't at this point

why did you say this

[Titus]

Dannflor can you get back on K?

[Dannflor]

I don't like Dannflor's vote but I only think it makes him scum if Kurtapika flips scum

yes i singlehandedly built a 5 vote wagon on my partner just so i could hop off of it.

what

I mean yeah, if you didn't expect it to gain the momentum it did, it would make sense for you to try and find a reason to jump off instead of going for the full on bus

Do you think project is more likely to flip scum than Kurtapika?

To answer this, right now I like the Project wagon more than Kurtapika.

I think there's a decent chance Skygazer is town and if that is the case I think she is a very juicy target for scum, especially new scum to go after because her play is kind of "objectively scummy" on a surface level and that makes it very easy to justify going after her.

I right now think that project's push on skygazer is actually worse than kurta's

I wouldn't say I'm town reading kurta yet but I guess you could say my scum read has cooled off somewhat

re: me bussing kurta

i don't know why on earth this is an actual thought you were are considering when that would require me to actively be asking people to join me on kurta several times, like literally actively building a wagon on kurta, and then be surprised when it actually works? does that make sense?

[Skygazer]

actually real quick: slightly worried that dannflor is whiteknighting me but eh idk

actually idk if this is fair given I haven't actually expressed a read on you yet i don't think

well maybe now I have implied one by my read on Projectry but I hadn't at this point

why did you say this

mostly just that i've been burned by scum white knighting me before. and whiteknighting a townie is one of those tips that pops up in a lot of those "how to wolf" guides from high level players. so the fact that you've wagoned two players that have voted me, and are currently pushing a third player that is voting me, seemed notable enough to note. but i don't feel like going down that rabbithole any further because it's likely just paranoia and would probably bring me more stress and not really glean anything actually readable

[Dannflor]

Dannflor can you get back on K?

maybe at some point!

[Dannflor]

mostly just that i've been burned by scum white knighting me before. and whiteknighting a townie is one of those tips that pops up in a lot of those "how to wolf" guides from high level players. so the fact that you've wagoned two players that have voted me, and are currently pushing a third player that is voting me, seemed notable enough to note. but i don't feel like going down that rabbithole any further because it's likely just paranoia and would probably bring me more stress and not really glean anything actually readable

okay that makes sense. I honestly didn't really realize that pattern and I hadn't a read on you until you started pushing projectry

It just so happened that the players I want to push I feel made bad pushes and they happened to be on you

[Dannflor]

Titus I'm kind of uneasy that your reads are so static this game

Who is your mysterious third to the kurta/T3 team

[Dannflor]

there's a small part of me that wants to town read T3 randomly coming back into the thread to respond to a notification/quote he got and then promptly disappearing

like i find scum is usually a little more careful about the optics of when they choose to reenter the thread whereas town sometimes feel compelled to respond to things addressed to them even if they aren't caught up or don't intend to get back into the game soon

[ProjEctRy]

VOTE: project

I think this is just a random pressure vote to gauge a reaction, but if not please share your reasons.

I have a problem with this post and it's that instead of just asking me why I was voting you, you also prefaced it with this hypothesis that it was "just" a random pressure vote.

Your answer in 684 doesn't really help me feel better about it either.

It feels like this preface was added to appease or placate me in some way. Like, you guessed it was probably a random pressure vote but didn't want to seem like you were coming off as too defensive or too bothered by the vote and so added that in there so you could ask me about it without seeming too bothered by it.

But, I feel like if you were town who thought I'd thrown you a random pressure vote you would have either:

• Not bothered with acknowledging my post at all.
  
• Asked me why I voted you and waited to see if my answer matched up with your hypothesis.

The second option in particular would've satisfied your want to know if you're "identifying things correctly" AND might have let you figure out something about my alignment.

It's also kind of weird because I feel like that post comes from the point of view where you're assuming I'm town and have town intentions with a random pressure vote. But, I wouldn't necessarily assume that out of someone randomly voting me even if I did town read them before hand.

From my point of view too much is being read into that comment. It wasn’t made to avoid looking too defensive or bothered by the vote because I wasn’t bothered by the vote. I’m happy as town to be pressured, everyone should be a consideration. And I think I correctly guessed it was a vote to gauge my reaction. I don’t think you had suspicions about me prior to that post.

I also disagree that a town response should be ignore the vote. I think avoiding drawing attention to pressure placed upon you is a scummy thing to do not town. You should discuss the reasons and get a better understanding of people’s thought patterns.

[Dannflor]

I think if Kurtapika does flip scum then nono could be a possible partner. It's weird that he has kurt in his solve but doesn't seem interested in voting there at all

i think this is a good observation btw and I think it's kind of a bad look for nono although I don't think it directly indicates kurta/nono

I think kurta could be a miselim and scum could want to passively support it without getting their hands dirty just as easily

I kinda gave nono a pass for tone earlier but reading back through I'm not loving their content

[Dannflor]

And I think I correctly guessed it was a vote to gauge my reaction. I don’t think you had suspicions about me prior to that post.

okay I guess my question is why you needed me to answer your guess before you found out why I voted you

like wouldn't it have been better to test MY answer first and see if it was what you were expecting? if I'd said I'd been actually been suspecting you all along you then you could compare that to your expectation of town!me and maybe catch me in a lie or doing something scummy

[Skygazer]

i think i always procrastinate on getting invested in games because once i get invested, games turn into small obsessions x_x

[Titus]

Titus I'm kind of uneasy that your reads are so static this game

Who is your mysterious third to the kurta/T3 team

Not you.

Idgaf you feel uneasy. I'll case the third if I need to in order to lim k or t3 in a close call. I'd rather have that slot think I think they're town. If I call them out, they won't bus ever.

I'd rather flip k, get them to bus t3 and lim them day three.

[Dannflor]

Idgaf you feel uneasy. I'll case the third if I need to in order to lim k or t3 in a close call. I'd rather have that slot think I think they're town. If I call them out, they won't bus ever.

I'd rather flip k, get them to bus t3 and lim them day three.

ok

im not opposed to flipping k still but there's a lot of time left in the day