open 894: near vanilla (game over)

[Titus]

Idgaf you feel uneasy. I'll case the third if I need to in order to lim k or t3 in a close call. I'd rather have that slot think I think they're town. If I call them out, they won't bus ever.

I'd rather flip k, get them to bus t3 and lim them day three.

ok

im not opposed to flipping k still but there's a lot of time left in the day

Time to do what? I have a theory. I want to test it.

[ProjEctRy]

Isn’t fluff posts and not trying to solve the game exactly what you’ve been doing the majority of this game?

If that’s scummy then it applies to you too.

But why is this allowed? Just because you are like this all the time, why should you be allowed to shitpost early and contribute later. If you as a player get this ‘exemption’ then when playing scum it effectively gives you a pass. Your position would be, ‘well don’t read into my lack of contribution, I always do this’.

And you wouldn’t have to maintain that style the full game. Advancing past day 1 under this style would still be progress if you were scum.

I also find Project's back and forth with Skygazer less focused on trying to determine Skygazer's alignment and more focused on winning the argument and also what should be considered fair.

I think the "why is this allowed" tone in the second post is very emblematic of the type of tone I see come from scum a lot of the time. It's kind of a reverse "caught for the wrong reasons" type of read. It's more like... this townie is doing something OBJECTIVELY scummy so they SHOULD be scum read for it.

I don't know. It doesn't feel like Projectry is super honestly engaging with Skygazer. I feel like at a minimum Projectry should recognize that this exact pattern of play probably isn't AI for Skygazer and start focusing on other elements of her play, but instead Projectry launches into how it like, shouldn't be allowed that Skygazer *gets* to play like this. I feel like that's a line of thought much more likely to come from scum who feels like a towny shouldn't be allowed to act so scummy and get away with it.

This post implies my suspicion is all about how it’s not fair Sky gets to play a certain way. That is disingenuous.
My initially suspicion was a result of her attitude. Her attitude and style were actively working against the towns agenda.

I also didn’t ‘launch’ into the fairness of it. I believe the ‘why isn’t this allowed’ or the why should she be ‘exempt’ from consideration because of her meta type posts were fairly recent posts, they weren’t the basis of my suspicion.

Also the ‘focused on winning the argument’ point. I think that would just show my inexperience rather than indicative of scum behaviour.

[Titus]

Like right now you're picking a fight with town Dann. I don't feel like we have to use time just because we have it. When we get cohesion, flip scum, next day. Chop chop chop.

[ProjEctRy]

And I think I correctly guessed it was a vote to gauge my reaction. I don’t think you had suspicions about me prior to that post.

okay I guess my question is why you needed me to answer your guess before you found out why I voted you

like wouldn't it have been better to test MY answer first and see if it was what you were expecting? if I'd said I'd been actually been suspecting you all along you then you could compare that to your expectation of town!me and maybe catch me in a lie or doing something scummy

I wasn’t concerned about the vote and I wasn’t worried about the optics of my response so any negative connotations from that comment were meaningless to me.

Also, to the second paragraph, you’re giving me too much credit. This is my first ever game, I’m not thinking that many steps ahead.

[Dannflor]

Like right now you're picking a fight with town Dann. I don't feel like we have to use time just because we have it. When we get cohesion, flip scum, next day. Chop chop chop.

can you explain why projectry is town

[Skygazer]

i should prob iso kurtapika huh

[JupiterXV]

hey i'm back for like 10 mins before i gotta get back to work
titus, if t3 or kurtapika flipped town, what would you feel about the other?

[Dannflor]

probably

[JupiterXV]

Also the ‘focused on winning the argument’ point. I think that would just show my inexperience rather than indicative of scum behaviour.

i think this is a really bad take on dann's argument
i think actually that what dann is implying that town... shouldn't have to try to win the argument, if that makes sense? like you, to me at least, seem zoomed in on just simply beating sky. town wants to be able to gauge the reactions of the person they're pushing (as well as the other people interacting with the aforementioned push) to help see interactions between players, and help town/scumhunt.that sort of scumhunting thing feels like it's been seriously pushed away 
bleh my take is hard to explain ask me if you need any clarification, willing to type it up again
for what it's worth, i don't think that's attributed to experience either

[JupiterXV]

lmao dann why are you my strongest townread now

[JupiterXV]

i have to go in like three minutes, i'll talk about my opinion on the project v sky thing later, if you all have any questions it'd be sick you asked them now so i don't have to return to them in around an hour

[Titus]

Like right now you're picking a fight with town Dann. I don't feel like we have to use time just because we have it. When we get cohesion, flip scum, next day. Chop chop chop.

can you explain why projectry is town

Transparent town thought process. Stands up for what they believe in. Tonally good. Reads noob good town.

[Titus]

hey i'm back for like 10 mins before i gotta get back to work
titus, if t3 or kurtapika flipped town, what would you feel about the other?

I'd reassess tomorrow with new data and flips. I would likely still feel they were scummy and I was only off by one.

[JupiterXV]

hey i'm back for like 10 mins before i gotta get back to work
titus, if t3 or kurtapika flipped town, what would you feel about the other?

I'd reassess tomorrow with new data and flips. I would likely still feel they were scummy and I was only off by one.

so independently scummy but likely to be partnered?

[Titus]

hey i'm back for like 10 mins before i gotta get back to work
titus, if t3 or kurtapika flipped town, what would you feel about the other?

I'd reassess tomorrow with new data and flips. I would likely still feel they were scummy and I was only off by one.

so independently scummy but likely to be partnered?

Yes

[JupiterXV]

i thought your theory was based on the fact that they were scum bc likely to be paired

also where's aisa at? lol

[Titus]

Yes...?

[T3]

Titus town?

[T3]

Actually I shouldn't shamelessly prodge I should just

extend v/la till saturday evening

[T3]

Cross my heart, I will be useful then

[Afrayed Knott]

443 ……TvT….

Dann was the one that brought up TvT. I was asking him about his read

I'll respond to the rest later, I have to go for a bit

I see a lot in the thread but obviously I need to deal with this first.

Yes Dann brought up the TvT but you automatically assumed he was talking about you and I. But he corrected you and said he was referring to you and him. so ok is it a slip?

Well if you are town then at that moment in time you had either a thought that I was town, or otherwise surely you might have challenged Dann's statement along the lines of, "How do you know it is TvT?" What would scum Black had done or said as opposed to what Town Black would have said, I don't know, which underlines my question to you about your play style. Yes yes the question came before 443.

The other explanation for you accepting the statement TvT and considering it was directed at you and I is the fact that you know I am town, so there is that. A counter argument to that might be, how does Dann know it's TvT? but like I said, it can be debated and its not concrete. but it could be a sum of the whole, could it not?

I was also thinking about your statement here

I'm not worried, I'm frustrated. I'm sick of talking about my meta. I made an alt recently so I could play one game without this conversation happening. It drains the fun out of it for me

your reactions after this didn't say you were not worried, in fact they stated to me you were pretty angry at it, and very defensive which is not alignment indicative is it? Ok before as I said I could look at it empathetically, and didn't, so let me try to do that now. You state that you hate people using your meta against you and, from your reactions and statements here, its pretty clear that in short it drives you up the wall. But that is unfortunately a big part of the game is it not? For example, in retaliation you are using my previous meta of being Lim Bait and not being calm or collected in my posts in previous games to try to counter push me. But that's why I took a break from the game. I had to think about how I was approaching my game play and whether I was having fun playing like a loose cannon or actually try to operate at a better level, and actually add to the game, guess what I choose, the latter. So ok, I get why you hate it as it was being used against me to some extent in previous games, but its a game, and three of those amongst us in this game are playing it in an underhanded way and are lying through their back teeth. I'm trying to find out who they are. Do I still feel you are scum, yes. But I do have doubt based on your reactions.

[Afrayed Knott]

What I will ask you, is this; and I’d like you to really consider what I am saying, based on the games we have played do you really think Scum me would be more collected and calm as opposed to town me? Because if you knew me you’d know that would not be the case. I have not played as scum fully yet, I had to pull out of the only game I was scum in because of personal reasons. In fact it’s the reason I pulled out of all my games about a month ago. I want in the right head space to play this game. I feel I am now. So if you are town then ok, but right now I’m still of the belief that your are not

Well the problem here is I don't know you, and you don't have any scum games for me to evaluate my read with. I know that I generally play more calm and collected as scum so I don't see why that wouldn't be the case with you. But the part you said about not being in the right headspace I can relate with. Headspace is a big factor in how I post so I get it. If you're town then I'm just asking you to do the homework necessary to confirm if your read is correct. I don't understand why you wouldn't do that if you are actually trying to sort me here

I actually don't know how I will play as scum, really I don't, I am quiet fearful of getting a scum role and pop my cherry so to speak

[Afrayed Knott]

i don't have the ability to read through yet another one of black's scumgames since i already read through one, but could you find quotes pls like comparisons?

why not? if you have read so many then why do you need another. If you want to look go look, but then you don't read things anyway do you.

[Afrayed Knott]

In a nutshell Jupiter is scum and was conscious his posts were bad, thus all the back wheeling and and apologising for lying and not reading. He then took a break from the thread. Possibly to collect his thoughts, rethink his approach maybe,

this is all supposition, but possible

. Then he came back into the thread and posted in a way to try and quell suspicion.

this is a dogshit take
yesterday i was

absent

. i was outside of my house after 5:45 (and thus away from my computer which i usually do my work on) and i was taking part in a workshop for an extracurricular i'm in. i may not have been posting but i don't have mafia on the brain all of the time- it's why i'm only present in the afternoon and sometimes in the evenings because i have work to do and i have a life outside of mafia.
and idk i'm not trying to "quell suspicion", i'm explaining my thought process because no one understands it. i want to at least be taken seriously in the game bc early on i was kind of posting less seriously and in more of a friendly manner. at that point people were just generally ignoring me or, as you did, push me for my posting style. in between the time i was gone no one engaged me and since no one was talking to me about my shadow scumread i wanted to bring it up again.
also like yea i didn't read kurtapika's post. so what. i backwheeled because i had no idea what i was talking about and i didn't wanna seem stupid.

quoting, to note,, checked jupiter's iso after this post, which has no evidence of reading scum games,, at least pretend xD
posts read fake paranoia, all telling no showing kek!!

didn't i literally have a conversation with black about meta reading her? what are you on about

you really don't read things do you, check the bolded part. basically yes its just guess work based on what I knew at the time, and pretty much me thinking out loud.. like you say you are doing here. Do I believe what you say here, I have no idea what to believe you are doing outside IRL, you could be sitting in a toilet having fun with yourself for all I know. Do I like what your saying now in thread, meh, you have a lot to say I will grant you that.

[Afrayed Knott]

am i not allowed to be voting shaddow? you haven't actually spoken much about shadow in your prior posts so this feels a bit out of the blue

vote for who you like its your prerogative as part of the game, especially if you are town. No I haven't spoken much about them, do I need to to have suspicions about them?