open 894: near vanilla (game over)

[schadd_]

Spoiler:

vote count 2.2 !

T3 (4):

Titus, Skygazer, OutWorldER, Dannflor

Bellaphant (2):

camelCasedSnivy, T3

camelCasedSnivy (1):

shaddowez

not voting (6):

Kurtapika, ProjEctRy, JupiterXV, Aisa, Bellaphant, Afrayed Knott

with 13 alive, it takes 7 to redact someone's redistrict. day 2 ends in (expired on 2023-12-17 14:21:42)

moderateur notes

• jupiterxv is V/LA for a short while
  
• i do that with my stupidness

[T3]

If Skygazer is town then I think I want to look at people who aren't solving here and aren't too invested in the wagons here

Adding on to this, I don't think scum want to change the gamestate all that much here if we're both town

[T3]

Actually I don't know if this is true. If Skygazer is town then scum will not be pushing her hard and scum can push me hard and not get blamed when I flip town?

Maybe I want to look at people who don't have a position on Skygazer actually

[Afrayed Knott]

I still do not see how flipping me if I'm town actually helps

If?

[Afrayed Knott]

VOTE: t3

That’s E-2

[ProjEctRy]

VOTE: T3.

That's E-1.

I've previously noted light suspicion for T3 (granted this was very weak and early - it got left behind after he was v/la and I became preoccupied elsewhere), but essentially I'm not opposed to the vote.

I also don't like his reaction lately. I've found it overly emotive. I'm conscious that others are reading this as town responding to pressure, but to me it's a bit over the top for town. I feel like scum have more to lose and his reaction feels desperate.

Regardless I think the case has already been made as to why strategically this is the best move for Day-2. Plus I don't know where else to put my vote at this point (I've got no confidence in my previous main scum reads).

[Titus]

T3 feels like I have an unconscious bias towards him. His reaction is not alignment indicative. It comes from the past, not his alignment or a view of the circumstances.

We should give T3 as much time as he wants. I'll largely not ask questions as my posting appears to bother him.

[Aisa]

Ok I'm busy right now but I've very received the message that I try should be a bit more active
If you guys can hold off on hammering T3 for 8 hours I can get some thoughts out

[T3]

I still do not see how flipping me if I'm town actually helps

If?

Yes, I was speaking from your point of view, as I made clear in the following posts

[Bellaphant]

mod, vla til Monday, adventures with the mini klickiphants

[Bellaphant]

I think the best thing is to hammer, but happy to wait for aisa.

[Aisa]

Here I am!!

- I think T3 flips town, realistically I don't think it matters that much what I do here, but if I were forced to take a stand I wouldn't vote him right now. I don't really want to lead a movement to find a different elimination because -ugh- what if he actually is scum? There are good mechanical reasons to eliminate him as well
- Does T3 want to leave any last reads?
- I will never not complain about people who think I'm too hedgey xx
- camelCasedSnivy who? that slot's been on my list for a while as "need more information"
- I have {Projectry, Jupiter, Bella, Titus, T3, Afrayed} as my current townreads, which leaves {Dann, Sky, Kurtapika, OWER, shaddow, Nono/cCS}
as the PoE
- The PoE doesn't mean these people are scummy, it can also mean that I haven't looked into that slot very much so far
- In my PoE, Sky, Kurtapika and cCS jump out as the places where scum is most likely to be, but I'm aware that's just a list of fairly easy targets this game. If those are wrong, then it feels like the likelihood of me having a wrong townread goes up quite a lot. And if I have a wrong townread it's probably going to be painful to tease out who it is

Um
I guess now I'll reread the last few pages and see if there is anything that jumps out to me from them

Also!! schadd has said that I can go on V/LA from the 14th to the 17th. The date snuck up on me a bit and I thought it was further away
I'm going to try and make it up to you guys by being more active before I leave
But if you're harboring any secret doubts or niggling suspicions on my slot it would be highly convenient if you could time the paranoia for either before I leave or after I come back!

[T3]

Do not reflexively lim Skygazer after I flip, I'm fairly sure she's town

[T3]

snivy is also town

actually i want to try voting here for today

VOTE: Bellaphant

I find it hard to believe that this post comes from scum!snivy

[Aisa]

snivy is also town

actually i want to try voting here for today

VOTE: Bellaphant

I find it hard to believe that this post comes from scum!snivy

It seems like an unremarkable post? Why do you think that wouldn't come from scum!snivy?

[T3]

snivy is also town

actually i want to try voting here for today

VOTE: Bellaphant

I find it hard to believe that this post comes from scum!snivy

It seems like an unremarkable post? Why do you think that wouldn't come from scum!snivy?

When he pushed players in the scumgame I played with him there was so much more of an agenda, here he just voted Bella to see what would happen (and was not LAMIST) about it.

What do you think is scummy about T3

he has a lot of posts for not trying to scumhunt at all

why did yall dissolve the alisae wagon

if alisae is scum i think all the slots that ignored them are also scum

ok but dont you agree prism is a juicier vote

then dont

lets settle this 1v1 tommorow

This is camel as scum and I see a pretty strong contrast already

[Dannflor]

VOTE: skygazer

[Aisa]

[...]

However, I will still say this: Regardless of T3's alignment, I think Project has to be scum here. Project being scum perfectly answers T3's question he's asked to me ("Why don't me and Black just vote Skygazer if we're partnered" because drawing attention to Skygazer also puts the spotlight back on the person originally driving the vote, Project), and I think Project is scummy on his own merits after reading back. He barely interacts with either Black or T3, only interacts with Titus's case on T3 to call it bad while never saying anything substantial about T3 throughout the entire game, and I think his interactions with Black (which, he stops after the first few pages) could very easily be theater. I think Project being scum here also answers one of the burning questions I had ("Why does Black get off the T3 wagon if he's a mislim?" and the answer is it would make both Black and Project look good if T3 flipped town and allow them to flip either Skygazer or Titus, likely Skygazer, without drawing too much suspicion back).

I ended up writing a wall anyways gdi.

I was going to disagree with this post pretty strongly, but actually looking at Project's iso i do think his early interactions with Black are concerning

Spoiler: Projectry interactions with Black

I like T3 here too. 15 feels like he's mocking bella considering his read in 26 which is kinda mean but not necessarily scum indicative. I like Project's read on T3 in 91 and I had similar thoughts when reading through, so I like Project so far as well

Black - I’m taking ‘like’ to equate to leaning town but is there more to what is making you lean town for T3?

I found the reasons in your post to be fairly weak to form a town read, even though part of it is based off of shared thoughts with me. Whilst I gave thoughts in 91 as to what I found to be town leaning about T3, I though those thoughts were very basic and could easily be inapplicable to a more experienced player. Presumably you don’t agree? (Or agree basic but still applicable ha)

The other part of your comments regarding him point out that him being mean is not necessarily scum indicative, but it wouldn’t make me lean Town either.

I’m just curious if there is more that I’m missing as to why you (or anyone else) think T3 is leaning town.

I would say it's more of a townlean than a full on townread, and yeah it's definitely weak. My reads generally are early on. There's not much more to my read other than thinking T3 doesn't have to be doing this if he's scum here. And thinking about his mocking of bella a little more I feel like that's more likely to come from town. I don't think scum would want to make enemies on page 1

Ok, fair point in relation to the mocking. I agree, dumb move to be making enemies that early if scum.

@Project is this your first mafia game ever?

Yes. Is it that obvious? haha.

@Project is this your first mafia game ever?

Yes. Is it that obvious? haha.

No. I think you're playing really good, especially considering how new you are

You're probably my top townread tbh. I don't really see newscum being this competent at radiating towniness

Oh thanks. I thought you meant I was doing really bad haha.

I think Black's 256 particularly feels like something she could say to a partner

Will pick back up tomorrow and review in more detail, particularly the Titus claim, but from a quick scan there’s a lot of speculation around me being Black’s scum partner.

Do people really think it’s more likely I’m Black’s partner rather than that I was likely pocketed (I think that’s the correct term)?

I realise now that Black was complementing me and overly defending me to pocket me. I’d presume it’s much easier / more common to pocket a newbie as well?

@project

what was your read on Black yesterday?

[Aisa]

snivy is also town

actually i want to try voting here for today

VOTE: Bellaphant

I find it hard to believe that this post comes from scum!snivy

It seems like an unremarkable post? Why do you think that wouldn't come from scum!snivy?

When he pushed players in the scumgame I played with him there was so much more of an agenda, here he just voted Bella to see what would happen (and was not LAMIST) about it.

What do you think is scummy about T3

he has a lot of posts for not trying to scumhunt at all

why did yall dissolve the alisae wagon

if alisae is scum i think all the slots that ignored them are also scum

ok but dont you agree prism is a juicier vote

then dont

lets settle this 1v1 tommorow

This is camel as scum and I see a pretty strong contrast already

...Checked out his ISO in this game and also compared it with another scumgame of his (here)
Actually quite like this read

[Aisa]

Will you explain your Skygazer read too T3?

[Dannflor]

I had Aisa as very strongly town at one point

I wonder if I can find that again

[ProjEctRy]

@project

what was your read on Black yesterday?

It was a town read unfortunately.

I’ve previously mentioned that I was in the middle of typing a post when Black self-hammered. In that post I was going to say that whilst I was becoming conscious to the possibility that Black could be pocketing me I didn’t see the case against her so I wasn’t prepared to lim her.

I was clearly wrong on the town read. I was well and truly pocketed. That’s why I now have no confidence I my previous reads.

[Dannflor]

I found the reasons in your post to be fairly weak to form a town read

, even though part of it is based off of shared thoughts with me. Whilst I gave thoughts in 91 as to what I found to be town leaning about T3, I though those thoughts were very basic and could easily be inapplicable to a more experienced player. Presumably you don’t agree? (Or agree basic but still applicable ha)

I actually think this specific phrasing, "your read has weak reasoning" is pretty uncommon to see from a partner dynamic unless the partners are attempting to bus

this is kind of a passing undermining of Black that makes their partnership seems unlikely

[Skygazer]

T3 is really playing up the resigned town thing but he's still scum, Dann

[T3]

Will you explain your Skygazer read too T3?

I'm still pretty conflicted but earlier I was scumreading Skygazer because I thought that her reasons for scumreading me were done with an agenda and in bad faith but I realized that I was being biased because she was scumreading me... like honestly when I look back, her reasons for scumreading me are definitely scummy more often than not but my scumread on her isn't as conclusive as I initially thought. I especially liked her exchange with Dannflor and that pushed me from "null-to-lean-scum" on her to "null-to-lean-town"