BooneyToonz XVIII: Lights, Faeries, Action! [END]

[Something Cool]

I feel like as town you tend to have a more flowy state where you push people for being scum without really being invested in it that I'm not seeing in your Sakura push, idk how to explain it

-Python

[Night Lights]

You should know by now

Nah, I don't really keep track of other player's behavior that well. I try but my memory is shit so I end up forgetting a lot

What about my Sakura read did you feel was unreasonable?

[Night Lights]

I feel like as town you tend to have a more flowy state where you push people for being scum without really being invested in it that I'm not seeing in your Sakura push, idk how to explain it

-Python

This might be true. I feel like I'm getting better at the whole town thing though. I'm evolving

[Gamma Emerald]

I think reducing the Day to "me, you, and Python arguing" and "people townreading Alianna" isn't fair and isn't true. There's been a lot more than that and it's only been 2 days into the game

Why has your opinion changed on ending the Day early? I'm not really buying the above as a legit reason

In short, both Python and I feel like we're crowding the thread, and I personally feel drained by this day phase.

Maybe you are right and we are getting more content to read off of, I just feel frustrated with how the game is going, because it feels either it's going to be a boring town sweep, or a torturous slow trudge through the day phases.

So what you’re saying is you regret spamming the thread to double the original length in the span of 8 hours?

[Night Lights]

[Doctor Drew]

Boop

Why am I scum

You kinda had a low key unreasonableness vibe when interacting with Sakura that I don't think you'd have as town

-Python

Hmm. Ok. I'd have to check the town games you've played with me to see if this is a real thought you'd have but I'm feeling pretty lazy atm

I feel like I was somewhat unreasonable in F&I but I could be wrong. Do you have an opinion on this?

You should know by now that we pretty much only ever make "real thought" type pushes as scum anyways, especially d1.

And the only thing I remember about FaI is us pushing Drew and Bulge for the most tinfoil pre-flip associatives on the planet

-Python

Ha, at least you finally admit it Python.

Also, I think Python and I are similar in that 90% of what we do as scum would be exactly we do as town. I have admired Python for being able to read me correctly as a whole when others consider me some 'weird unreadable enigma' lol.

[Doctor Drew]

You should know by now

Nah, I don't really keep track of other player's behavior that well. I try but my memory is shit so I end up forgetting a lot

What about my Sakura read did you feel was unreasonable?

This sticks out a bit to me, too much fireball?

[Gamma Emerald]

I don’t see myself voting for Night Lights this game ever

[Night Lights]

I don’t see myself voting for Night Lights this game ever

Shocker!

[Doctor Drew]

I don’t see myself voting for Night Lights this game ever

My opinion on them isn't as strong, but I get the sentiment.

I do wish Ali would post though, much like Alianna they will obv town at some point if town.

Black, please allow Ali out of the basement please.

[Night Lights]

I do wish Ali would post though

Yeah me too

This is the second time I've hydra'd, both of them with a hyper poster (was with Shea last time), and both times they just... didn't post

[Night Lights]

Whatever. Probably just gonna lurk for awhile

[Aureal]

Also I asked for your input on potential night actions.

Missed it the first time. If town have night actions it's gonna be any of:

• A protective action if jesters have a nightkill
  
• A low power investigative role that doesn't get red/green checks like Motion Detector, Detective, or Role Cop (Can't be high power because a red check mechanically autowins the game and a green check is also strong as hell)
  
• A low power co-ordination role like Neighborizer or Messenger (Can't be something like Mason because that probably autowins town the game)

-Python

You seem pretty convinced that there should be a nightkill though, and having a protective in that case also has investigative power because blocking a kill on someone means they're clear. There would likely be some question still of whether there just wasn't a nightkill at all or it was blocked, depending on the timing, but it could still be decent info. Which seems a little unbalanced if there's nightkills. And how would there even be nightkills, when it's a fact there isn't a factional one and vig is apparently restricted to town only? Could there be some sort of two-part killing action that requires two jesters to both use their action in order to make a kill? Something along the lines of arsonist where a target is marked and killed later?

On the other hand, if there's no nightkills, why is there even nights when there can't reasonably be useful investigations either? Nights are basically about play and counter-play around the primary thing each faction uses to try to get an advantage- kills and investigations.

You and Dragon don't seem to be on the same page with this- you're talking like you expect 7/2 with nightkills. Dragon seems to have talked himself out of the idea that there's nightkills though, by his backtracking on the idea that voting a more null slot like Kitty early would be a good idea.

[Aureal]

I feel like as town you tend to have a more flowy state where you push people for being scum without really being invested in it that I'm not seeing in your Sakura push, idk how to explain it

-Python

Mmm

Black is more aggressively focused on her pushes as scum whereas she pushes in more places but less vigorously? Something like that?

[Aureal]

Mmm

Black is more aggressively focused on her pushes as scum whereas

when town

she pushes in more places but less vigorously? Something like that?

[Something Cool]

Also I asked for your input on potential night actions.

Missed it the first time. If town have night actions it's gonna be any of:

• A protective action if jesters have a nightkill
  
• A low power investigative role that doesn't get red/green checks like Motion Detector, Detective, or Role Cop (Can't be high power because a red check mechanically autowins the game and a green check is also strong as hell)
  
• A low power co-ordination role like Neighborizer or Messenger (Can't be something like Mason because that probably autowins town the game)

-Python

You seem pretty convinced that there should be a nightkill though, and having a protective in that case also has investigative power because blocking a kill on someone means they're clear. There would likely be some question still of whether there just wasn't a nightkill at all or it was blocked, depending on the timing, but it could still be decent info. Which seems a little unbalanced if there's nightkills. And how would there even be nightkills, when it's a fact there isn't a factional one and vig is apparently restricted to town only? Could there be some sort of two-part killing action that requires two jesters to both use their action in order to make a kill? Something along the lines of arsonist where a target is marked and killed later?

On the other hand, if there's no nightkills, why is there even nights when there can't reasonably be useful investigations either? Nights are basically about play and counter-play around the primary thing each faction uses to try to get an advantage- kills and investigations.

You and Dragon don't seem to be on the same page with this- you're talking like you expect 7/2 with nightkills. Dragon seems to have talked himself out of the idea that there's nightkills though, by his backtracking on the idea that voting a more null slot like Kitty early would be a good idea.

Jailkeeper would keep the nightkill ambiguity, and the specific wording is that Dark Jesters do not have a factional kill

by default

so you can make it work without being bastard by just gating the nightkill behind LE or by requiring a Jester gets limmed to use it

-Python

[Doctor Drew]

Whatever. Probably just gonna lurk for awhile

No Ali, come back if you are town.

[Something Cool]

Actually hot take, if there's night actions but no nightkills is it worth it to no lim?

-Python

[Aureal]

Actually hot take, if there's night actions but no nightkills is it worth it to no lim?

-Python

...

Okay fine, maybe you can have a townread after all.

Though I bet you'd be better at faking this than Snivy.

[Aureal]

Jailkeeper would keep the nightkill ambiguity, and the specific wording is that Dark Jesters do not have a factional kill

by default

so you can make it work without being bastard by just gating the nightkill behind LE or by requiring a Jester gets limmed to use it

JK is just an extra layer of ambiguity about

what part

the JK's target played in the kill attempt: killer or target, it doesn't make it any more ambiguous whether there was a kill than a standard doc protect would be. I guess gating it where the enlightenment level is 1+ would fit, though.

[Aureal]

Likewise, I suppose it wouldn't be completely out of the question for there to be an investigative that only works at level 2 (which should only happen when there's only one more town than jester I think?) because forcing a 1v1 isn't an autowin there.

[Something Cool]

Likewise, I suppose it wouldn't be completely out of the question for there to be an investigative that only works at level 2 (which should only happen when there's only one more town than jester I think?) because forcing a 1v1 isn't an autowin there.

Forcing a 1v1 is always an autowin in 7/2 because you just make everyone vote outside of the 1v1 until you either win or hit 2/1 and just vote for the person not in the 1v1 and win from plurality rules

-Python

[Something Cool]

Actually a 1v1 is an autowin in 6/3 as well, as long as the setup can reach 2/1 LE 2+ a 1f1 wins the game

-Python

[Aureal]

Okay yeah, I see what you meant about only being able to have two nightkills, so just being tied to the LE is inadequate.

Spoiler: a few examples

Start: (LE0) 7:2 -Jester (LE -1) 7:1
D2: -Patron (LE0) 6:1
D3: -Patron (LE1) 5:1
D4: NK -Patron (LE1) 4:1 -Patron (LE2) 3:1
D5: NK - Patron (LE2) 2:1


Start: (LE0) 7:2 -Patron (LE 1) 6:2
D2: NK -Patron (LE1) 5:2 -Patron (LE2) 4:2
D3: NK -Patron (LE2) 3:2


Start: (LE0) 7:2 -Patron (LE 1) 6:2
D2: NK -Patron (LE1) 5:2 -Jester (LE0) 5:1
D3: (LE0) 5:1 -Patron (LE1) 4:1
D4: NK -Patron (LE1) 3:1 -Patron (LE2) 2:1
D5: NK -Patron 1:1 is game over

If this is how the game will play out, with us being forced into a situation where town only outnumber jesters by one regardless of how successful we are, does that counter-balance the difficulty of jesters needing to all be voted out? Hmmm

[KittyTacky]

Kitty is more reserved as scum. And he seems free here. I could tell from the first few posts

I'm town.