open 896: describing conker (game over)

[shiki]

idk why frayed is suddenly pushing shiki then, we need to consolodate at this point rather than continuing to try and find more options.

there is built in fallback to elements in afrayed knott's post that feels kinda unlikely for a partner to me

[shiki]

There is then a period of interaction with Dann based off her feeling that Dann was avoiding Black, or do I have that wrong? No, I’m sure that’s the hang up. For me it’s a null thing, Dann blanks a lot of people in games, well that’s my experience of him, he even has blanked me. Then the vote on Dann. Dann is pushing her to do something and asks her to place a vote on him and she does?? On the face of it, Dann’s response is how I would now expect Dann to react, by explaining his thoughts on why he pushed her, but that is not alignment indicative for me, well not yet. Her response with the vote seems towny to be frank, I would probably do the same. But then 863 seems mute and diluted from the feeling of confidence in her earlier interactions.

yes, you have that wrong - dannflor felt that black was avoiding the dannflor/aristeia interaction in a scum indicative way and felt that that outweighed all previous thoughts he had regarding the slot

[shiki]

I don’t get 885 , ok it’s a naked vote from El, but ?

but i am town and it is a vote on me without any sort of interaction

like i force interaction in that sort of scenario because i like to give benefit of doubt to others and if they are town i need them to see that i am town and if they're not town maybe i see that through followup

like i am sortable and voting me generally accomplishes little in terms of sorting me whereas interacting with me might

[shiki]

But seriously a lot of time wasted by the pair of them, and it sort of drives me to consider an El/Shiki scum team.

i don't mind lifting the veil a bit here to say that when i am playing this way it is as much if not more for the other towns to solve the game than it is for me to

the reason so much of my interaction was with elements and not other players in that period of time was because a) elements was pushing me and b) elements was interacting with me

and to me that sort of thing, in theory, should make both of us more readable to everyone else - like it's more content for the players who are much smarter than i am to look at and figure out intentions

like do i think i am super capable of solving elements alignment through extended interaction? not particularly

but do i think others are super capable of solving elements alignment through extended interaction with me if they assume i am town? mhm i do

[shiki]

if they assume i am town? mhm i do

and do i think it makes it much easier for other players to see that i am town if i am having these interactions in order to base the rest of their thoughts on the assumption that i am town? mhm i do think that as well

[Afrayed Knott]

idk why frayed is suddenly pushing shiki then, we need to consolodate at this point rather than continuing to try and find more options.

I'm trying to catch up, and seem to be running out of time. I will say that I am happy to vote El, Ari or Shiki, but thats because that is where my focus has been. That said. I do have some thoughts on Dann.

[Afrayed Knott]

Dann, So I decided to take a look at Dann next. Why? well I am trying to understand all this association stuff. so bear with me. (note to self -Not sure this will work though.)

Spoiler:

Well he is hunting, his questions make sense and its clear he is looking at each and every person in the game. Not only individually but questioning their take on others. What does fall out immediately is his thought’s on Black, which seems contrary to what Shiki is stating about his lack of interest in their slot? 606 . I’d disagree with his self-assessment 614 , but then I am reading what comes after it.
Ari’s question to him 649 seems weird. He asks a question of El about making deliberate scummy votes, I took it as a tongue in cheek statement. Then there’s the whole of Ari’s small push in 680 and onwards, it reads almost as if she is trying to convince herself that it is the right thing to do. Fire’s take on the whole thing at 690 I’d sort of agree with, but possibly not the charitable take.

691 survive, thrive? Deliberate change or a typo? Ok yes its picky. His statements on Black at 846 I have to agree with, I have played with Black in recent games and yes, there is a distinct difference in her play when Scum. Although I wasn’t seeing it here. But then Dann is talking from a personal perspective. Then there is Dann and Skiki. Initiated by Shiki talking about their hang ups on Dann’s thoughts on Black. And I have thoughts in my previous post, which I continue to hold. Not sure though what 872 is about, in particular the last part.

i wanted to see if egging you on would like make you mad or get you to scum read me harder or something

If town why would you want to see someone scum read you, or something?

1009 So am I

All in All, I cant be totally sure that Dann here is not scum, but I’m not vibing that at all. I’ve only played in one game with him as scum, he actually subbed in for Black. He played a good game and left me not trusting him unless he is conf town through unchallenged claim or as an IC. But I am sure I will lear to read him. For now, I think he is probably town.

[Afrayed Knott]

I had just finished reading his ISO and typed that up, when I noticed activity in the thread. So ok I will jump to the now

[Afrayed Knott]

I am caught on 800 where she question’s ScumDann putting Ari into the small hood based on Ari being difficult to end game, but surely that would be a possible move by anyone who knows Ari’s play, including Shiki?

well, uh, i could not have put aristeia into the small neighbourhood because a) i am town but also b) i wasn't here when the neighbourhood's were chosen regardless? (if i were i think scums likely would have put me in the large group nonetheless? and assumed they'd probably have to nightkill me but i think placing me in the small neighbourhood puts different constraints on the scumteam than placing town!aristeia would {town generally more likely to take care of aristeia issue for the scumteam, aristeia more likely to actually solve the game so want built in clock, do not want to have to commit to nightkilling aristeia without knowing how she'll be read by the game})

and how i was thinking about it scum!aristeia would generally only be in the small neighbourhood if partnered with another strong scum player and dannflor's thoughts regarding what scum would do with the split seemed kinda hmm to me like they were distancing from the actual split and not really thinking about what scum would do with the like 'harder to play scum from the small neighbourhood thing' - like sure maybe in some ways but the scum player trying to endgame 80% of the time maybe more is the one in the big neighbourhood i assume so it seemed odd to me

Bu thats not what you are doing in 800. you are hypothesizing and then questioning the logic, are you not? Thus my question. taking into account your thought process. So I am just pointing out that had you been scum and sorted the neighbourhoods, would you have not also done what you hypothesize Dann did?

[shiki]

I am caught on 800 where she question’s ScumDann putting Ari into the small hood based on Ari being difficult to end game, but surely that would be a possible move by anyone who knows Ari’s play, including Shiki?

well, uh, i could not have put aristeia into the small neighbourhood because a) i am town but also b) i wasn't here when the neighbourhood's were chosen regardless? (if i were i think scums likely would have put me in the large group nonetheless? and assumed they'd probably have to nightkill me but i think placing me in the small neighbourhood puts different constraints on the scumteam than placing town!aristeia would {town generally more likely to take care of aristeia issue for the scumteam, aristeia more likely to actually solve the game so want built in clock, do not want to have to commit to nightkilling aristeia without knowing how she'll be read by the game})

and how i was thinking about it scum!aristeia would generally only be in the small neighbourhood if partnered with another strong scum player and dannflor's thoughts regarding what scum would do with the split seemed kinda hmm to me like they were distancing from the actual split and not really thinking about what scum would do with the like 'harder to play scum from the small neighbourhood thing' - like sure maybe in some ways but the scum player trying to endgame 80% of the time maybe more is the one in the big neighbourhood i assume so it seemed odd to me

Bu thats not what you are doing in 800. you are hypothesizing and then questioning the logic, are you not? Thus my question. taking into account your thought process. So I am just pointing out that had you been scum and sorted the neighbourhoods, would you have not also done what you hypothesize Dann did?

yes that's why i hypothesized dannflor or fireisredsir or meuh might have chosen those neighbourhoods - due to their familiarity with ydrasse and aristeia

[Afrayed Knott]

There is then a period of interaction with Dann based off her feeling that Dann was avoiding Black, or do I have that wrong? No, I’m sure that’s the hang up. For me it’s a null thing, Dann blanks a lot of people in games, well that’s my experience of him, he even has blanked me. Then the vote on Dann. Dann is pushing her to do something and asks her to place a vote on him and she does?? On the face of it, Dann’s response is how I would now expect Dann to react, by explaining his thoughts on why he pushed her, but that is not alignment indicative for me, well not yet. Her response with the vote seems towny to be frank, I would probably do the same. But then 863 seems mute and diluted from the feeling of confidence in her earlier interactions.

yes, you have that wrong - dannflor felt that black was avoiding the dannflor/aristeia interaction in a scum indicative way and felt that that outweighed all previous thoughts he had regarding the slot

Yeah I read back, sorry been tired today and screwed up my thought process. But I still feel your reaction in 863 is diluted and lacks your earlier confidence.

[Afrayed Knott]

afrayed doesn't even really seem aware of how close we are to deadline but i feel like scum woulda been chatting about it in the pt so that makes me think afrayed is townie

And El's vote on Dann? you didn't seem to question that?

[Afrayed Knott]

Right I have got to get ready to head to the airport. I will read again when in the lounge

[shiki]

Yeah I read back, sorry been tired today and screwed up my thought process. But I still feel your reaction in 863 is diluted and lacks your earlier confidence.

because when i am simply noting the things that are potentially noteworthy to me it is easy to be confident and say 'oh this seems potentially meaningful!' but then when i try to compile all of those things into one simple worldview (like dannflor and elements wanted me to have some sort of therefore 'dannflor is a scums!' stance or something) it feels a possibility not any sort of concrete thing i can be confident in - that's simply not how i think about the game at any given time

[Elements]

VOTE: daisy
Daisy is very town bin-able day 1 as both alignments because of her play style
Making her very good big hood fodder because she's so unlikely to be voted out day 1

[Ydrasse]

but who in this game is aware of it? do you think she asserted this herself to a partner?

[Elements]

Yes

[Elements]

I also would be surprised if red!daisy wouldn't want to be in a hood with me because we know each other so well

[Elements]

I also wouldn't be surprised if red!daisy wouldn't want to be in a hood with me because we know each other so well

Ebwop

[Ydrasse]

is there any other reason daisy is a wolf?

[shiki]

@ydrasse

do you think elements is a scums tho?

[Elements]

is there any other reason daisy is a wolf?

as much reason as anyone else

[Ydrasse]

@ydrasse

do you think elements is a scums tho?

55%
the vote being framed as it is feels bad when previously they were voting to poke daisy and now it’s based off of this point when i think the more understandable reason for voting daisy atp after rotating off and back on is to just survive as town. like self consciousness

[Ydrasse]

is there any other reason daisy is a wolf?

as much reason as anyone else

fmpov a wolf is voting daisy so.

[Dannflor]

UNVOTE: