Eminence in Shadow: Season 1 [Game Over]

[Klick]

How is Kawaii more engaged than, say, me, Alisae, or Gamma?

That's the issue
You're using the wrong lens
I don't care how engaged Kawaii is compared to other players
I care about how engaged Kawaii is compared to how engaged they'd be if they were scum

[Klick]

I think you're legitimately confused by my read here, compared to Koba who didn't really evaluate my claim and is just kinda spewing nonsense

[Klick]

Do you have any SRs, Klick?

Sorry I missed this

None I feel strongly enough about to discuss atm

[Big Chungus Gaming]

me when im extremely vague

[Sakura Hana]

i think i figured out why thread feels stiff and its probably bc some ppl play like frightened kittens when they rand PR so im going to ask only once but please pretend you're vt

Or people are probably busy due to christmas/eve, like me.
Although while i'm at home i do tend to have time to read and post, i feel like there's not much going on, i assume for this reason.
I'll probs do a re-read when i get back from spending the holidays with my family.

[T3]

How is Kawaii more engaged than, say, me, Alisae, or Gamma?

That's the issue
You're using the wrong lens
I don't care how engaged Kawaii is compared to other players
I care about how engaged Kawaii is compared to how engaged they'd be if they were scum

viewtopic.php?t=92050&user_select%5B%5D=36997

Did you not play in this game, where Kawaii was scum and was far more engaged than in this game?

[Klick]

That game is exactly what I am comparing their play here to

I'm assuming you've seen my case post on Kawaii in that game?

Basically everything I said about Kawaii there does not apply here

[T3]

I'm assuming you've seen my case post on Kawaii in that game?

My only prior experience with Kawaii was in Monkey Business. If I did anything good in that game, it was finding Kawaii as town immediately and repeatedly insisting that everyone kept them alive. I thought Kawaii was obvtown because they seemed to really care about the reads they were giving to the thread. Their takes felt really genuine, and they weren't afraid to go against the grain to give what they believed about the game. They formed a worldview and it showed in their posting.

I don't get any of that here? What I feel from Kawaii's ISO in this game is a lot more cold, removed, and descriptive. It feels like there's a concerted effort to show a coherent thought process, without the oomph behind it. Reading these posts, it feels like Kawaii is developing the complexity of their points as they're making them:

Dann-I like Dann's switch in thought about Clap/Klick in 538 and 542, they show a fluidity in thinking and attention to detail specifically to Klick's words in 504. Though I disagree with Dann's conclusion of Klick feeling performative with replication, I do feel Klick is off this game; letting things happen instead of actively pursuing anyone. Dann's switch in thought is specifically surprising since he defended Klick previously in 324, 328, 332 Is this potentially distancing between Dann/Klick? Yes. Does this feel like a natural switch in thought with Dann reflecting on the game? Yes. Though partner equity between Dann/Klick exists it's lessened with this change in thought.
What concerns me though is this,

Why are you voting Clap over Klick when it seems pretty obvious that there is a bigger appetite for a Klick wagon

i don't feel as confident in my read on klick

i think clap flips scum a lot of the time

i think there are some people on this playerlist who might be likely to follow me onto the wagon of my choosing

if Dann is scum he has the persuasive power to both defend and distance himself from Klick and to convince Black to vote clap twice in 333 (off of klick), and 556 to e-2. in defending and distancing from Klick, Black is a focal point, Dann mirroring her,

I just think it seems really convenient to hop on my wagon despite not agreeing with any of the reasons why I could be scum

I think it’s reasonable for klick to want to pressure you

He doesn’t have to think you are lock scum like dragon to want to put pressure on you to sort you

think klick/claptastik is still my top 360 no-scope pick for a scum team actually

I don't know with Klick I like instantly felt that something was off about how he was posting

This is hard to believe considering you townread him for *reasons* and tried to dismantle his wagon

What I mean by mirroring is Dann being defensive when Black is being accusatory, then Dann reflecting Black's klick read in thinking but not in action. Dann sees Black as town twice in 321 and 545
I agree with Dann in Black being town. When initially reading the interactions between black and dann about klick made sense. If it's town/town both have diverging ways of thinking that end up to close to the same conclusions. If it's scum/town then Dann is pocketing Black. If scum/scum then this is a masterclass in deception especially with this in the game. The back and forth between black and dann feels way too organic to be calculated so I highly doubt scum parity exists between them. Dann's change in and flow of thought is in line with solving so I feel he slightly leans town at the edge of nai; his scum parity in potentially defending, distancing, and derailing votes off of klick weighing dann down. Since Klick is my highest scumread I want to flip Klick to see if Dann is town/scum.

Klick is insanely flippant this game, not only failing to unvote Black in e-1, but noticing she was and straight up not caring,

I was vaguely aware that Black was at E-1. I didn't care that much about it

This is sai, why would town notice and not care? Because it's funny? For the meme? Doesn't make sense to me at all.

Klick continues to not make sense, voting Black again in 260, citing he's happy with the "game running narrative", refusing to elaborate. Why is Klick happy with seeing Black as scum? What info is gained with this view? How does falling into this belief help solve?

Klick keeps going,

and I am going to make your life hard, intentionally

Like what the fuck is this? You don't want to sort me. You just want to be right about me so you can say "OoO I caught scum Black!!11!!"

I'M TOWN

If you're town I'm the wrong person to counter-push. I somewhat understand your concerns about my vote on you, but I feel that most of the votes on me have been just as lazy, and the difference is just that the vote is on you instead of me.

We're in similar spots if you're town. If that's the case then I think the scum are more likely to be in the quieter crowd.

Klick states, "most of the votes on me have been just as lazy, and the difference is just that the vote is on you instead of me"
Why is Klick voting Black without reason and saying the votes on Black are lazy?

It's like saying, "Ik the votes on you including mine are lazy but the votes on me including yours are lazy too"
This whole thing is a giant "No U" that Klick initiated by voting Black only to basically say, "We're the same"
If Klick is town then he makes a really good observation on their mutual positions and scum playstyle. But if Klick is town why is his playstyle so sai? Voting Black a 2nd time (to E-2) with 0 attempt to solve. Like why? Klick even admits he doesn't agree with any reasons to be voting Black,

Klick's townplay is generally very good and I'm legitimately shocked he agrees with some of the reasons being presented against me, so I think it's more likely he's just scum going along with the easy counterwagon

I agree with zero of the reasons but I don't think that means you're town

Klick redeems himself with this unvote,

I think Black is more likely to be town right now. I dont have a lock read yet but im confident i can get a very confident read there given enough time

I have an extremely good record of reading Black and if people can find me as town it would be cool if people trusted that

Dragon I believe it’s obvious he wants to catch scum!black and will do so by tunneling her regardless of her alignment so he can say he caught her

UNVOTE:
I'll take this. I'm not really 100% here atm but I'm willing to have a look at what you mean with Clap later

Klick realizing voting Black is a mistake and unvoting her is good play, it's either town Klick waking up or scum Klick seeing eliminating Black doesn't have enough support. Pretty nai but it does lessen Klick's scum behavior since this is town behavior.

Klick then goes onto lead the charge against FakeGod accusing him of having fake thoughts,

I acknowledge that FakeGod had some content in their ISO that looked like solving on the surface
My point was rather that the content itself felt forced, felt like it was driven by what FakeGod wanted to push into the thread rather than what FakeGod thought. It felt like the purpose of their posting was to look a certain way, as opposed to just solving. And that bothered me.

I'm seeing a shift in thought/approach once the 2nd Black vote fell, hopefully Klick is close to a solve he hoped to have in the beginning,

I feel like I'm close to having enough information to try to infer some sort of solve but I'm not quite there yet.

This is what I want most from Klick now. In alignment he's a slight scum lean to me with getting Black to E-2 in the 2nd vote then unvoting her and changing play.

It feels significantly different from what I've just read over in Monkey Business.

I could see Kawaii being scum here

[Sakura Hana]

KawaiiKame is my top townread

Why?

Kawaii is super engaged

, authentic, confident, and showing evidence of solving
I have no clue why you think Kawaii is the best vote you could place atm

How is Kawaii more engaged than, say, me, Alisae, or Gamma?

That's the issue
You're using the wrong lens
I don't care how engaged Kawaii is compared to other players

I care about how engaged Kawaii is compared to how engaged they'd be if they were scum

How is Kawaii more engaged than, say, me, Alisae, or Gamma?

That's the issue
You're using the wrong lens
I don't care how engaged Kawaii is compared to other players
I care about how engaged Kawaii is compared to how engaged they'd be if they were scum

viewtopic.php?t=92050&user_select%5B%5D=36997

Did you not play in this game,

where Kawaii was scum and was far more engaged than in this game?

That game is exactly what I am comparing their play here to

I'm assuming you've seen my case post on Kawaii in that game?

Basically everything I said about Kawaii there does not apply here

This doesn't match up with Kawaii being "super engaged" and being town for it.
I guess i could just be wrong about my thoughts on Kage, but this doesn't look like you're being honest.
VOTE: Klick

[Sakura Hana]

I realize i probs wont be able to follow up on this for a day or so, but i'd like some explanation on how "kawaii is super engaged" here and then you backing down and saying their play would be more engaged if scum when T3 brings it up.
Because from you saying "super engaged" and "the engagement is the difference between their town and scum game" I would have been led to assume they are even less engaged as scum, but you seem to be agreeing with T3 on the opposite.

[T3]

I'm assuming you've seen my case post on Kawaii in that game?

My only prior experience with Kawaii was in Monkey Business. If I did anything good in that game, it was finding Kawaii as town immediately and repeatedly insisting that everyone kept them alive. I thought Kawaii was obvtown because they seemed to really care about the reads they were giving to the thread. Their takes felt really genuine, and they weren't afraid to go against the grain to give what they believed about the game. They formed a worldview and it showed in their posting.

I don't get any of that here? What I feel from Kawaii's ISO in this game is a lot more cold, removed, and descriptive. It feels like there's a concerted effort to show a coherent thought process, without the oomph behind it. Reading these posts, it feels like Kawaii is developing the complexity of their points as they're making them:

Dann-I like Dann's switch in thought about Clap/Klick in 538 and 542, they show a fluidity in thinking and attention to detail specifically to Klick's words in 504. Though I disagree with Dann's conclusion of Klick feeling performative with replication, I do feel Klick is off this game; letting things happen instead of actively pursuing anyone. Dann's switch in thought is specifically surprising since he defended Klick previously in 324, 328, 332 Is this potentially distancing between Dann/Klick? Yes. Does this feel like a natural switch in thought with Dann reflecting on the game? Yes. Though partner equity between Dann/Klick exists it's lessened with this change in thought.
What concerns me though is this,

Why are you voting Clap over Klick when it seems pretty obvious that there is a bigger appetite for a Klick wagon

i don't feel as confident in my read on klick

i think clap flips scum a lot of the time

i think there are some people on this playerlist who might be likely to follow me onto the wagon of my choosing

if Dann is scum he has the persuasive power to both defend and distance himself from Klick and to convince Black to vote clap twice in 333 (off of klick), and 556 to e-2. in defending and distancing from Klick, Black is a focal point, Dann mirroring her,

I just think it seems really convenient to hop on my wagon despite not agreeing with any of the reasons why I could be scum

I think it’s reasonable for klick to want to pressure you

He doesn’t have to think you are lock scum like dragon to want to put pressure on you to sort you

think klick/claptastik is still my top 360 no-scope pick for a scum team actually

I don't know with Klick I like instantly felt that something was off about how he was posting

This is hard to believe considering you townread him for *reasons* and tried to dismantle his wagon

What I mean by mirroring is Dann being defensive when Black is being accusatory, then Dann reflecting Black's klick read in thinking but not in action. Dann sees Black as town twice in 321 and 545
I agree with Dann in Black being town. When initially reading the interactions between black and dann about klick made sense. If it's town/town both have diverging ways of thinking that end up to close to the same conclusions. If it's scum/town then Dann is pocketing Black. If scum/scum then this is a masterclass in deception especially with this in the game. The back and forth between black and dann feels way too organic to be calculated so I highly doubt scum parity exists between them. Dann's change in and flow of thought is in line with solving so I feel he slightly leans town at the edge of nai; his scum parity in potentially defending, distancing, and derailing votes off of klick weighing dann down. Since Klick is my highest scumread I want to flip Klick to see if Dann is town/scum.

Klick is insanely flippant this game, not only failing to unvote Black in e-1, but noticing she was and straight up not caring,

I was vaguely aware that Black was at E-1. I didn't care that much about it

This is sai, why would town notice and not care? Because it's funny? For the meme? Doesn't make sense to me at all.

Klick continues to not make sense, voting Black again in 260, citing he's happy with the "game running narrative", refusing to elaborate. Why is Klick happy with seeing Black as scum? What info is gained with this view? How does falling into this belief help solve?

Klick keeps going,

and I am going to make your life hard, intentionally

Like what the fuck is this? You don't want to sort me. You just want to be right about me so you can say "OoO I caught scum Black!!11!!"

I'M TOWN

If you're town I'm the wrong person to counter-push. I somewhat understand your concerns about my vote on you, but I feel that most of the votes on me have been just as lazy, and the difference is just that the vote is on you instead of me.

We're in similar spots if you're town. If that's the case then I think the scum are more likely to be in the quieter crowd.

Klick states, "most of the votes on me have been just as lazy, and the difference is just that the vote is on you instead of me"
Why is Klick voting Black without reason and saying the votes on Black are lazy?

It's like saying, "Ik the votes on you including mine are lazy but the votes on me including yours are lazy too"
This whole thing is a giant "No U" that Klick initiated by voting Black only to basically say, "We're the same"
If Klick is town then he makes a really good observation on their mutual positions and scum playstyle. But if Klick is town why is his playstyle so sai? Voting Black a 2nd time (to E-2) with 0 attempt to solve. Like why? Klick even admits he doesn't agree with any reasons to be voting Black,

Klick's townplay is generally very good and I'm legitimately shocked he agrees with some of the reasons being presented against me, so I think it's more likely he's just scum going along with the easy counterwagon

I agree with zero of the reasons but I don't think that means you're town

Klick redeems himself with this unvote,

I think Black is more likely to be town right now. I dont have a lock read yet but im confident i can get a very confident read there given enough time

I have an extremely good record of reading Black and if people can find me as town it would be cool if people trusted that

Dragon I believe it’s obvious he wants to catch scum!black and will do so by tunneling her regardless of her alignment so he can say he caught her

UNVOTE:
I'll take this. I'm not really 100% here atm but I'm willing to have a look at what you mean with Clap later

Klick realizing voting Black is a mistake and unvoting her is good play, it's either town Klick waking up or scum Klick seeing eliminating Black doesn't have enough support. Pretty nai but it does lessen Klick's scum behavior since this is town behavior.

Klick then goes onto lead the charge against FakeGod accusing him of having fake thoughts,

I acknowledge that FakeGod had some content in their ISO that looked like solving on the surface
My point was rather that the content itself felt forced, felt like it was driven by what FakeGod wanted to push into the thread rather than what FakeGod thought. It felt like the purpose of their posting was to look a certain way, as opposed to just solving. And that bothered me.

I'm seeing a shift in thought/approach once the 2nd Black vote fell, hopefully Klick is close to a solve he hoped to have in the beginning,

I feel like I'm close to having enough information to try to infer some sort of solve but I'm not quite there yet.

This is what I want most from Klick now. In alignment he's a slight scum lean to me with getting Black to E-2 in the 2nd vote then unvoting her and changing play.

It feels significantly different from what I've just read over in Monkey Business.

I could see Kawaii being scum here

Your original post in which you townread Kawaii here did not say that you were comparing her to past games but I don't think this makes you scum...?

UNVOTE:

[T3]

I realize i probs wont be able to follow up on this for a day or so, but i'd like some explanation on how "kawaii is super engaged" here and then you backing down and saying their play would be more engaged if scum when T3 brings it up.
Because from you saying "super engaged" and "the engagement is the difference between their town and scum game" I would have been led to assume they are even less engaged as scum, but you seem to be agreeing with T3 on the opposite.

I don't think Klick's explanation quite makes sense but in his original scumcase on Kawaii in the previous game we talked about he said this:

What I feel from Kawaii's ISO in this game is a lot more cold, removed, and descriptive.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Someone convince me Cakez is scum because I'm inclined to think otherwise atm but I've been inaccurate on Cakez before

Also @Ali what kind of confidence do you have about Luka!town

whats townie about cakez

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i think i figured out why thread feels stiff and its probably bc some ppl play like frightened kittens when they rand PR so im going to ask only once but please pretend you're vt

bruh this game is mountainous did u even read the setup

[Klick]

I disagree that Kawaii was more engaged in that game than they are here

'Engaged' isn't really the keyword I care about most here, it's an imperfect word to describe the opposite of 'cold and removed' as described in what T3 just quoted

What's more relevant is that I feel like T3 is engaging this point in very good faith and I think his legitimate interest makes him +town

[Klick]

In short, when I say Kawaii seems 'engaged' here, what I'm talking about is their attachment to the things they're posting about. I feel like Kawaii cares about the things they are saying this time around. I definitely didn't feel that last time around.

[Big Chungus Gaming]

i think i figured out why thread feels stiff and its probably bc some ppl play like frightened kittens when they rand PR so im going to ask only once but please pretend you're vt

bruh this game is mountainous did u even read the setup

this is awkward

[T3]

Klick's entrance here feels different from when I modded a game when he replaced into a scum slot a while ago

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Klick's entrance here feels different from when I modded a game when he replaced into a scum slot a while ago

i need more words this is vague as fuck

[Dunnstral]

I don't like the way Big Chungus Gaming is interacting with Klick slot, but do like the way they are interacting with T3

[T3]

Klick's entrance here feels different from when I modded a game when he replaced into a scum slot a while ago

i need more words this is vague as fuck

It means that I thought Klick might be town for how he behaved when he replaced in

Then I looked at 7 past Klick games in which he replaced in and realized it was NAI

[Big Chungus Gaming]

I don't like the way Big Chungus Gaming is interacting with Klick slot, but do like the way they are interacting with T3

have you considered our lord and savior "sort by postcount" though?

VOTE: jjh

[Dunnstral]

You were against voting for PenguinPower for being a "low info" wagon, I don't see how this vote is different.

[Gamma Emerald]

i think i figured out why thread feels stiff and its probably bc some ppl play like frightened kittens when they rand PR so im going to ask only once but please pretend you're vt

bruh this game is mountainous did u even read the setup

this is awkward

Do you still struggle to differentiate PR and scum tells?

[Dunnstral]

Klick's entrance here feels different from when I modded a game when he replaced into a scum slot a while ago

i need more words this is vague as fuck

It means that I thought Klick might be town for how he behaved when he replaced in

Then I looked at 7 past Klick games in which he replaced in and realized it was NAI

Does Klick usually have a narrow focus when they replace in?

They talk about KawaiiKame but not much else, even bringing in meta from other games.