Eminence in Shadow: Season 1 [Game Over]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you have no reasoning

it was useful because it helped me refine my read on sakura dunn and alisae

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the entire premise of your argument is that the "scum team" is trying to "accomplish some goal" by "this point in the game"

here is a completed large theme with Dunnstral in it that finished

viewtopic.php?t=91817

you look at the first 32 pages of that game and you tell me what the fuck the scum team is trying to accomplish

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the idea that a group of people trying to get something done in this game which has nothing going on has to have scum in it because they are the only people doing something is asinine and ridiculous

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also for bonus points here's a game where you're scum vs town me

viewtopic.php?t=88034

you and infinity basically pretend to be tree branches and do absolutely nothing while me and wisdom fight over who gets to townread tammy and put her in the coalition with them and all sorts of silly nonsense.


so I know you know that its possible for a scum team to not have a plan or actually have some kind of actual rythymn in the early game.

everything you've said about a scum team must have a plan therefore the only people with a plan are in the scum team is just narrative creation and complete nonsense that you know is false

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if you're scum who's decided to shitpush me with the world's dumbest argument to pretend like you're doing something let me just tell you that i will never townread you off of "too stupid to be scum" because I respect you as a person and I think you are a pretty good scum hunter.

if you're town it should be pretty obvious to you who is egging this fight on and who is trying to get you to not troll me with nonsense

[Klick]

1. I want to know what your strongest reads are at this moment. Which players do you have the most confidence in just being town? Which players do you have a particularly bad feeling about, even if you can't currently justify it? I want to know the opinions that matter most to you atm.

2. Following that, I also want to know what you all think of the following slots:

{STD, Gamma, Penguin, Pooky, Chungus, jjh}

(I'm not solely limited to focusing on those slots, that's just where my own PoE has me atm and I want something to more meaningfully sort between them.)

My end goal is to push the game in a positive direction. I am seeing a lack of cohesion/willingness to drive the game forward all around, and my intention is to change that and get pressure on high equity scum slots.

I also want to trial what happens if I just openly and transparently do this, as opposed to doing it the inconspicuous way. It seems like a good opportunity to try it, considering the stagnant game state.

[Cephrir]

1. I want to know what your strongest reads are at this moment. Which players do you have the most confidence in just being town? Which players do you have a particularly bad feeling about, even if you can't currently justify it? I want to know the opinions that matter most to you atm.

2. Following that, I also want to know what you all think of the following slots:

{STD, Gamma, Penguin, Pooky, Chungus, jjh}

(I'm not solely limited to focusing on those slots, that's just where my own PoE has me atm and I want something to more meaningfully sort between them.)

My end goal is to push the game in a positive direction. I am seeing a lack of cohesion/willingness to drive the game forward all around, and my intention is to change that and get pressure on high equity scum slots.

I also want to trial what happens if I just openly and transparently do this, as opposed to doing it the inconspicuous way. It seems like a good opportunity to try it, considering the stagnant game state.

1.
Sircakez town
Wheme town
Luka town
Chungus scum

2
STD I need more to work with
Gamma don't know... I resolved to pay attention to her and then didn't
Penguin thought he was town earlier but feeling less sure now
pooky I've had as a suspect but I'm starting to doubt it with the borderline self destructing he's been doing on the last couple pages
Chungus' brief blaze of light died out quickly
Jjh honestly his last post just viscerally fills me with a sense that he will never post in this game again. But for now anyone who says they have a read on this person is fooling themselves

[Cephrir]

I still want to see meta of t3 doing fucking anything as town

I'm sure it exists but I just want to see it

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i'm not self destructive i just have a low tolerance for bullshit

[Dunnstral]

That was a meta statement that spans a long time and a multitude of games. It doesn't mention this game or his read on me this game at all.

I was solely looking at this game. If you feel that I tend to go after you in games, I apologize, but that doesn't change what I've pointed out in this game.

deflecting

weird interpretation of what i was doing - but one i expect from you towards me given my experience with you over the years

What would you say you were doing? I think deflection is an apt description.

If you think I need to deflect that early in the game I can't help you.

...this is, in itself, deflection. Instead of answering a simple question you try to make the other party look dumb and change the topic.

[Dunnstral]

i asked you what you think town me would be talking to him about and you just restated your original post without even answering so why dont you try answering the question

Well I feel I did show what I was thinking. I think you looping back to the same arguments is scum indicative, so if you were town I think you would not be doing that. I don't think you would bring up the same point over and over again. As I said I think you keep going back to this point because it is perhaps the easiest point to argue against - the three people voting together bit.

[Dunnstral]

his case/argument essentially boils down to;

[a] Well I think scum have to be

doing something

in this game

Since Pooky/STD/PP are the ones actively wagoning together in a unit, they must be scum because they are the ones

doing something

this game

This isn't true because in a stagnant game state where not a lot of threatening wagons have appeared and the thread is more or less lethargic because holidays/rl/whatever the scum

do not need to do anything because there is no threat to them

I think you know his point is complete garbage because in your last large theme as scum you didn't do anything and the scum team had no actual plan or tried to do anything and you're just kind of handwaving it to attack me for focusing on it like you expect town!me to not focus on a shitty argument when someone presents it and uses it to push me which is nonsensical.

To be clear, the more you loop back to this, the more I think you are mafia. It doesn't really matter to me whether the three of you voting together is a good way to catch you or not.

[Dunnstral]

the entire premise of your argument is that the "scum team" is trying to "accomplish some goal" by "this point in the game"

here is a completed large theme with Dunnstral in it that finished

viewtopic.php?t=91817

you look at the first 32 pages of that game and you tell me what the fuck the scum team is trying to accomplish

You weren't in this game, is there a reason you brought this game up?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i asked you what you think town me would be talking to him about and you just restated your original post without even answering so why dont you try answering the question

Well I feel I did show what I was thinking. I think you looping back to the same arguments is scum indicative, so if you were town I think you would not be doing that. I don't think you would bring up the same point over and over again. As I said I think you keep going back to this point because it is perhaps the easiest point to argue against - the three people voting together bit.

WHAT OTHER POINT DOES HE EVEN HAVE

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the entire premise of your argument is that the "scum team" is trying to "accomplish some goal" by "this point in the game"

here is a completed large theme with Dunnstral in it that finished

viewtopic.php?t=91817

you look at the first 32 pages of that game and you tell me what the fuck the scum team is trying to accomplish

You weren't in this game, is there a reason you brought this game up?

to show you should know his point about scum teams having a plan is wrong but you just nodded along and egged him on

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

@Klick

: Within the reasoning you've given so far, i think out of the 3 it's more likely pooky town and 2 sheep scum than an entire scumteam piling up, like when does that even happen. More importantly consistently during the day.

@BCG

: Please answer the questions i gave you during my re-read

like this is the way sakura engaged with klicks point about scum teams having a plan

the way you engaged was basically to ignore him when you know that its not a good point

reeks of scum being selective in their memory for advantage

like if you're mafia and klick is town pushing me I can see you just ignoring that point because you know it doesnt help your position in this game and you want him to keep pushing me attracting all of my fire

meanwhile you chip in with this nonsense about how im "focussing" on one aspect therefore im scum which is nonsense because it was literally the only thing he even presented for me to talk about

so again i ask you for the fourth time WHAT DO YOU EXPECT TOWN ME TO EVEN RESPOND HIM WITH

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it is extremely easy for scum to weave narrative conclusions about people

____ is doing ____ because ___ is mafia.

for example you are doing that here with Pooky is mafia because he is focussing on one part of Klick's push to "score easy points"

real town thought involves looking at the counter factual and differentiating multiple probability states.

as in if Pooky is town what would Pooky be doing

instead

of what he is doing now which I have said is scummy?

I have asked you now for the fourth time what you expect me to do if I'm town because I'm not sure you're even thinking about that and only one alignment doesn't think about "well what if i'm wrong" because that alignment has a motive to be wrong

[Dunnstral]

1. I want to know what your strongest reads are at this moment. Which players do you have the most confidence in just being town? Which players do you have a particularly bad feeling about, even if you can't currently justify it? I want to know the opinions that matter most to you atm.

2. Following that, I also want to know what you all think of the following slots:

{STD, Gamma, Penguin, Pooky, Chungus, jjh}

(I'm not solely limited to focusing on those slots, that's just where my own PoE has me atm and I want something to more meaningfully sort between them.)

My end goal is to push the game in a positive direction. I am seeing a lack of cohesion/willingness to drive the game forward all around, and my intention is to change that and get pressure on high equity scum slots.

I also want to trial what happens if I just openly and transparently do this, as opposed to doing it the inconspicuous way. It seems like a good opportunity to try it, considering the stagnant game state.

My reads look like this right now:

[T3, Cephrir, SirCakez, Gamma Emerald, Sakura Hana, Klick, KawaiiKame, Whemestar]
[jjh927, Alisae, ssbm_Kyouko, Luka, Save the Dragons]
[Big Chungus Gaming, PenguinPower, pookythemagicalbear]

My strongest reads here. Let's say you and Sakura Hana. Sakura Hana is quite good at looking town on day 1 when mafia but I like the way they are pushing the game and trying to get people to go back and respond to what they've missed. I do currently think the other 6 names at the top are town but since I have so many names up here I'm not confident. Not really confident that there's more than 1 mafia within Save the Dragons, PenguinPower, or pookythemagicalbear, and when typing this I've realized that Save The Dragons feels the least likely out of the three to be mafia to me. That might be bad reasoning. jjh is null due to no content, which puts them above other people. Big Chungus is slightly below null, I just feel something is off with them. Wary of ssbm_Kyouko and Luka. I don't feel like Alisae has done anything to show their hand either way. I feel like those on top have done something to make me think they are town.

[Dunnstral]

No I never egged Klick on. I said you were the one repeatedly bringing focus back to that, not Klick. I think you are trying to make this point out to be a much bigger part of this push than it is.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

so Klick is pushing me here with the following argument;

this unit of Pooky/STD/PP must contain mafia because they are the only people pushing something in this game and the scum must be doing something at this point - since they are the only people doing something they must have some scum in the grouping.

This logic is incredibly beneficial for mafia to push if Pooky/STD/PP are all town because if you mislim one you can just move on to the others - theres gotta be one in there right?

I am attacking his logic because I struggle to see how town him believes it because frankly it makes little to no sense to me and having a fight with him about it helps me sort everyone else who is giving their opinions on it as we fight about it.

Alisae said we're probably both town and want us to stop fighting - ali probably town if klick is town because alisae knows us fighting is ++ scum win equity and alisae is not a i'm going to be the voice of reason scum player in a disjointed game state, alisae loves going for the throat.

Sakura tried to understand what klick was talking about in a way that felt p curious and didnt really help him push me its less townie than alisae but its some real thought process

Dunnstral

knows

that Klick's underlying argument about "scum must have a plan and be doing something" is wrong because he literally just played as scum in a large theme where he didnt have a plan. yet he said nothing about it and instead he just made up some bullshit about how me targetting a specific part of Klick's case amounts to cherrypicking to score townpoints.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

No I never egged Klick on. I said you were the one repeatedly bringing focus back to that, not Klick. I think you are trying to make this point out to be a much bigger part of this push than it is.

what else is in his push then

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you keep pretending that I am cherrypicking to target a specific part of his push when his push consists of absolutely no logic OTHER than this "grouping argument"

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

how is it so hard for you to come up with what else is in his push if you dont already know it

[Dunnstral]

Pooky you know I have my own reasons for scumreading you, and I don't have to explain everything Klick is doing to be allowed to have my own read. You're wrong that the scum team didn't have a plan in the game I played that you linked - our plan was to survive and shoot a bunch of people. We just weren't very good at it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

dunnstral tell me how its even possible for you to think "klick has a good push on pooky but pooky is cherrypicking this specific part of his argument to avoid the other points such as X, Y and Z"

but when I ask you point blank to your face what X Y and Z are that you can't come up with a single fucking point