Eminence in Shadow: Season 1 [Game Over]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pooky you know I have my own reasons for scumreading you, and I don't have to explain everything Klick is doing to be allowed to have my own read. You're wrong that the scum team didn't have a plan in the game I played that you linked - our plan was to survive and shoot a bunch of people. We just weren't very good at it.

yes your plan was to survive and vibe

not push something directly in the thread because you hoped town conflicts would take center stage because there were multiple town on town pushes

this is basic fucking strategy and you know it so I dont expect you to see Klick saying this nonsense about scum must be doing something

[Dunnstral]

Can you quote where I said Klick has a good push?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

dunnstral tell me how its even possible for you to think "klick has a good push on pooky but pooky is cherrypicking this specific part of his argument to avoid the other points such as X, Y and Z"

but when I ask you point blank to your face what X Y and Z are that you can't come up with a single fucking point

[Dunnstral]

Can you quote where I said Klick has a good push?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Can you quote where I said Klick has a good push?

semantics

your accusation is that i'm focussing on the weak part of his push in order to "score points"

that implies there is a strong part of his push that i'm "avoiding"

I am literally engaging him on the only part of his push that even exists so I ask you for the 6th time what exactly do you expect me to do as town when Klick pushes me with a pile of garbage?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

so you think his push is bad ?

can you stop being coy and playing around with words

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like what the fuck even is your point

[Dunnstral]

It's not semantics, you posted 20 times and several posts you've made are based on things that aren't true or never happened. Let's slow down and start fact checking instead of making baseless assertions.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

answer the question

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you think Klick's push is a bad push?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

tell me dunnstral stop moving the goalposts around to play hide a peek a boo

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

here i'll even write the words out for you if you're having trouble

Klick's push is a good push because ___INSERT REASONING HERE___

Klick's push is a bad push because ___INSERT REASONING HERE___

pick one and stop dancing

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

It's not semantics, you posted 20 times and several posts you've made are based on things that aren't true or never happened. Let's slow down and start fact checking instead of making baseless assertions.

which point did i make is based on something not true or never happened

[Dunnstral]

I'm going to go back and look at Klick's push and cross-check it with what you've been saying over the last few pages and seeif you're correct.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

oh so you dont even know

wow its almost like you never even read his push and r just slinging shit

VOTE: Dunnstral

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you shouldve just stuck with pretending to not exist i might have never even got to voting you

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

here's the way the "focus on a scummy part of a push" is scum indicative tell is actually supposed to work.

If Player A pushes Player B with A, B & C reasoning and Player B picks out the weakest part of Player A's case to shove back on Player A with, that's scum indicative because B is conflating the entire push with a specific weak part of the push.

To use it on B you actually need to have a case with a strong logical basis to begin with.

So for you to think me doing that to Klick is scum indicative makes sense as a scumread in your mind you have to

know

which part of Klick's case/push on me is strong and that I'm

avoiding

because that shows a scum motivation.

Instead when I ask you, you don't even know what he's pushing me for

other

than the reasoning I'm talking to him about because to you it's just a town on town push and a conflict you want to stoke. If you're town you would actually know what he's pushing me for.

[Klick]

Frankly at this point I read the last few pages as Pooky actively stirring the pot for way longer than necessary on things that aren't actually that important

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: PookytheMagicalBear

Yeah let's kill Pooky

So the Cakez wagon did in fact have no teeth, and the {Pooky/Penguin/Dragons} trio literally in order followed each other from the Cakez wagon to the jjh wagon

this isnt even true

they followed me

claiming that we followed each other is just straight lying

Semantics
If you want to demonstrate that that difference has any significance then feel free

Day 1 - Our Story Begins
Vote Count 1.05

Sir Cakez [4][E-5] - PookytheMagicalBear, Penguinpower, Save The Dragons, Alisae,
PookytheMagicalBear [2][E-7]- SirCakez, Cephrir
Klick [2][E-7] - ssbm_Kyouko, Sakura Hana,
Sakura Hana - [1][E-8]- KawaiiKame,
KawaiiKame [1][E-8]-- Gamma Emerald,
Penguinpower [1][E-8] - Dunnstral,
Dunnstral -[1][E-8]- Klick
Cephrir [1][E-8] - jjh927
jjh927 [1][-E8] - Big Chungus Gaming ,
Save the Dragons [1][E-8] Whemestar
Gamma Emerald - [1][E-8] - Luka

Lurking in Shadows (Not Voting - 1) : T3

Day 1 - Our Story Begins
Vote Count 1.06

jjh927 [5][-E4] - Big Chungus Gaming , Klick, PookytheMagicalBear, Penguinpower, Save The Dragons,
Big Chungus Gaming -[2][E-7]-T3, Cephrir
PookytheMagicalBear [1][E-8]- SirCakez
Sakura Hana - [1][E-8]- KawaiiKame,
KawaiiKame [1][E-8]-- Gamma Emerald,
Penguinpower [1][E-8] - Dunnstral,
Cephrir [1][E-8] - jjh927
Sir Cakez [1][E-8] - Alisae,
Save the Dragons [1][E-8] ssbm_Kyouko,
Gamma Emerald - [1][E-8] - Luka,
Klick - [1][E-8] - Whemestar

Lurking in Shadows (Not Voting - 1) : Sakura Hana,

So the Cakez wagon did in fact have no teeth, and the {Pooky/Penguin/Dragons} trio literally in order followed each other from the Cakez wagon to the jjh wagon

you're literally just taking snapshots in time without looking at the context of what actually happened.

I voted for Cakez - then BCG/PP/STD/Sakura/Alisae followed me on the same day to put Cakez at E-3.

cakez re-enters thread at 327 and asks why is pooky not at e-1 which is ? dunnstral asks him whats the reason for suspecting pooky immediately 6m to try to get an answer from cakeboi. Cakes answer is 333 which is basically not answering the question at all.

I dunno if thats just cakez being his usual scummy self or scum cakez being put on the spot by dunn and not having a good answer but I certainly dont see a "train of thought". he then says some shit about me stretching at a gum factory and claiming the wagon on him is garbage which I can see him doing as either alignment.

now compare this to Cakez/Me last game together where we were town/town this is his iso;

viewtopic.php?sid=&f=83&t=91473&user_select%5B%5D=26092

yea he says some shit about me but he doesnt really take the joke too far. he's got nuanced thoughts about ydrasse and votes her and is actively doing things. he even says he thinks he shouldnt push me or SR me because if I'm scum i'll just be obnoxious to him and it'll be difficult. Which is a pretty reasonable thing to believe about me and one of the reasons I ended up TRing him in this game because his thoughts made sense.

here in this game I have no idea what he's doing. wagoning him didn't really give me a readable response so I moved on and I'm giving him space to do his own thing because I think voting him is just going to cause him to become more intractable/hostile and that's not really useful in any way.

I'll look at this context later
Your explanation doesn't feel hugely relevant to the pattern I'm observing but I understand its importance to your perspective atm

So the Cakez wagon did in fact have no teeth, and the {Pooky/Penguin/Dragons} trio literally in order followed each other from the Cakez wagon to the jjh wagon

this isnt even true

they followed me

claiming that we followed each other is just straight lying

Semantics
If you want to demonstrate that that difference has any significance then feel free

if you want to claim we are a band of murderous rogues I demand proper credit as the leader/mastermind

Completely understandable

It mainly feels significant in terms of, I'd expect at minimum 1 scum between the three of you not feeling towny and shamelessly bouncing between Cakez and jjh

I'm saying {Pooky/Penguin/STD} is a unit that i expect to be high % scum because none of you are towny and idk what else scum is intentionally doing at all if they're not involved there

Beyond that I'm not making a statement of higher significance
I'm happy with where I have staked my claim

What reason do I have to look specifically at scenarios in which {Pooky/Penguin/STD} are all town

I do love how you went from "

I can't think of any alternatives

" to "this is the most likely scenario and we can think of an infinite number of alternative hypotheticals"

[citation needed]

I forgot that I'm not supposed to talk to the scum

I'm saying {Pooky/Penguin/STD} is a unit that i expect to be high % scum because none of you are towny and idk what else scum is intentionally doing at all if they're not involved there

I think this would make more sense if you made the group {Penguin, STD}. and even then I wouldn't agree there is "high%" - ">rand" maybe?

More importantly though, why is Pooky a part of the group if Penguin and STD are following his vote around? Independent of other players, how is he scum?

I think what's notable is being part of the makeup of the two major wagons so far, not necessarily the sheeping itself

I don't have a case to give on Pooky!scum outside of what I've already talked about.

if i could sue you for damages i would file a claim in mafiascum court for wasting my time on utterly trite bullshit

At the end of the day, you took reasoning that was fairly simple and easy to understand and that I didn't ultimately care that much about, asked 20,000 questions about it, and now that I've answered you in full, you're claiming that

I've

wasted

your

time.

Engage with me when you have something more important to talk about than, as you say, utterly trite bullshit.

Here is what I see as Klick's push on Pooky

Here is the issue: You voted for SirCakez, and then voted for jjh, but neither of the votes you have made were accompanied with good reasoning. When asked about Cakez, you simply say "what's townie about cakez" which is not really an answer.

You

do

later talk about Cakez later in 657, but only after the start of this push by Klick. The post you make here is pretty reasonable though, and I don't have a problem with it.

Look at post 666 by Klick above. It seems clear to me that while Klick does think you are mafia for the reason that "mafia must be doing something", it is nowhere near the amount of significance you seem to be placing on it. They say as much in the next post. They mention this again in post 709.

Now let's loop back to the reason I am scumreading you, and what I think you are doing as mafia here that you wouldn't do as town. I think you are hyper focused on one specific aspect of this push against you, what I would call the easiest part of the push to argue against, and are trying to make this all about that, to the extent that you are now even accusing me of things related to it when I never really interacted with that reasoning myself before. I think you, as mafia, want to talk about this, and you can't get over it.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Frankly at this point I read the last few pages as Pooky actively stirring the pot for way longer than necessary on things that aren't actually that important

figuring out whether this push is scum or town motivated is important to me because its literally how i figure out alignments

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Here is the issue: You voted for SirCakez, and then voted for jjh, but neither of the votes you have made were accompanied with good reasoning. When asked about Cakez, you simply say "what's townie about cakez" which is not really an answer.

You do later talk about Cakez later in 657, but only after the start of this push by Klick. The post you make here is pretty reasonable though, and I don't have a problem with it.

yes I talked about how I thought about Cakez alignment after Klick pushed me and claimed I wasnt sorting Cakez.

this is because its important to show my thought process if people think i'm mafia for not thinking

its not good for me to show my thought process while pushing someone to sort them because thats literally giving them the answer key and makes the sorting pretty useless

[Dunnstral]

so you think his push is bad ?

can you stop being coy and playing around with words

I'm not being coy, you're flooding the thread with assertions that don't have much basis, and I want you to go back and fact-check yourself instead of moving on to the next assertion and flooding the thread with new half-baked assertions... which makes it really difficult to try to disprove each one.

[Dunnstral]

Here is the issue: You voted for SirCakez, and then voted for jjh, but neither of the votes you have made were accompanied with good reasoning. When asked about Cakez, you simply say "what's townie about cakez" which is not really an answer.

You do later talk about Cakez later in 657, but only after the start of this push by Klick. The post you make here is pretty reasonable though, and I don't have a problem with it.

yes I talked about how I thought about Cakez alignment after Klick pushed me and claimed I wasnt sorting Cakez.

this is because its important to show my thought process if people think i'm mafia for not thinking

its not good for me to show my thought process while pushing someone to sort them because thats literally giving them the answer key and makes the sorting pretty useless

OK. This is just explaining Klick's point of view when they were pushing you. At the time, you hadn't explained anything so it's fair to have been on you for that.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Now let's loop back to the reason I am scumreading you, and what I think you are doing as mafia here that you wouldn't do as town. I think you are hyper focused on one specific aspect of this push against you, what I would call the easiest part of the push to argue against, and are trying to make this all about that, to the extent that you are now even accusing me of things related to it when I never really interacted with that reasoning myself before. I think you, as mafia, want to talk about this, and you can't get over it.

you keep claiming that im hyperfocussed on one aspect of the push but theres literally nothing else to his push so what else am i even supposed to talk to him about?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Here is the issue: You voted for SirCakez, and then voted for jjh, but neither of the votes you have made were accompanied with good reasoning. When asked about Cakez, you simply say "what's townie about cakez" which is not really an answer.

You do later talk about Cakez later in 657, but only after the start of this push by Klick. The post you make here is pretty reasonable though, and I don't have a problem with it.

yes I talked about how I thought about Cakez alignment after Klick pushed me and claimed I wasnt sorting Cakez.

this is because its important to show my thought process if people think i'm mafia for not thinking

its not good for me to show my thought process while pushing someone to sort them because thats literally giving them the answer key and makes the sorting pretty useless

OK. This is just explaining Klick's point of view when they were pushing you. At the time, you hadn't explained anything so it's fair to have been on you for that.

so i'm not hyper focussed on that aspect? you mean I addressed other aspects of his push? shocking