Eminence in Shadow: Season 1 [Game Over]

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

so you think his push is bad ?

can you stop being coy and playing around with words

I'm not being coy, you're flooding the thread with assertions that don't have much basis, and I want you to go back and fact-check yourself instead of moving on to the next assertion and flooding the thread with new half-baked assertions... which makes it really difficult to try to disprove each one.

sure ill take the time to go one by one with you lets do it

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Look at post 666 by Klick above. It seems clear to me that while Klick does think you are mafia for the reason that "mafia must be doing something", it is nowhere near the amount of significance you seem to be placing on it. They say as much in the next post. They mention this again in post 709.

I'm saying {Pooky/Penguin/STD} is a unit that i expect to be high % scum because none of you are towny and idk what else scum is intentionally doing at all if they're not involved there

I think this would make more sense if you made the group {Penguin, STD}. and even then I wouldn't agree there is "high%" - ">rand" maybe?

More importantly though, why is Pooky a part of the group if Penguin and STD are following his vote around? Independent of other players, how is he scum?

I think what's notable is being part of the makeup of the two major wagons so far, not necessarily the sheeping itself

I don't have a case to give on Pooky!scum outside of what I've already talked about.

^^

Klick himself admits when Sakura asks him why does he think Pooky is mafia that this is the major part of his case so you're just trolling atp

[Dunnstral]

i asked you what you think town me would be talking to him about and you just restated your original post without even answering so why dont you try answering the question

Well I feel I did show what I was thinking. I think you looping back to the same arguments is scum indicative, so if you were town I think you would not be doing that. I don't think you would bring up the same point over and over again. As I said I think you keep going back to this point because it is perhaps the easiest point to argue against - the three people voting together bit.

WHAT OTHER POINT DOES HE EVEN HAVE

OK. Let's go back here, you keep asking me this question: what other arguments does Klick have? In truth, it seems Klick thinks you are mafia because you are not towny while other players are, and the weird voting thing is them pointing at a group of people and saying they expect there to be mafia within that group.

My issue with you I've said. If you're town I don't know what I'd expect you to be doing, but what I am seeing from you makes me think you are mafia.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok so you think I should be talking to Klick about his POE in a large theme game where the game just started and nothing really has happened except me+friends wagoning two people

sure dunnstral how should I be talking to him about his POE

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

My issue with you I've said. If you're town I don't know what I'd expect you to be doing, but what I am seeing from you makes me think you are mafia.

I don't even have a mafia incentive to create wagons so not even this part is correct

[Dunnstral]

@Klick

: Within the reasoning you've given so far, i think out of the 3 it's more likely pooky town and 2 sheep scum than an entire scumteam piling up, like when does that even happen. More importantly consistently during the day.

@BCG

: Please answer the questions i gave you during my re-read

like this is the way sakura engaged with klicks point about scum teams having a plan

the way you engaged was basically to ignore him when you know that its not a good point

reeks of scum being selective in their memory for advantage

like if you're mafia and klick is town pushing me I can see you just ignoring that point because you know it doesnt help your position in this game and you want him to keep pushing me attracting all of my fire

meanwhile you chip in with this nonsense about how im "focussing" on one aspect therefore im scum which is nonsense because it was literally the only thing he even presented for me to talk about

so again i ask you for the fourth time WHAT DO YOU EXPECT TOWN ME TO EVEN RESPOND HIM WITH

First three lines here, I'm not sure why I need to engage with Klick's push. From your PoV maybe that's appreciated, but don't forget that I voted you before Klick did and have my own, separate reasoning for thinking you are mafia. From my PoV, agreeing with Klick is not required. I engaged with you, not with Klick.

You again keep talking about how you only have one thing to talk about by Klick. I think you blew this one thing way out of proportion, and are making discussion revolve around this point.

[Dunnstral]

My issue with you I've said. If you're town I don't know what I'd expect you to be doing, but what I am seeing from you makes me think you are mafia.

I don't even have a mafia incentive to create wagons so not even this part is correct

Not the wagon part. The way you are responding to this push on you is what makes me think you are mafia.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You again keep talking about how you only have one thing to talk about by Klick. I think you blew this one thing way out of proportion, and are making discussion revolve around this point.

ok what should I be talking about with Klick

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

My issue with you I've said. If you're town I don't know what I'd expect you to be doing, but what I am seeing from you makes me think you are mafia.

I don't even have a mafia incentive to create wagons so not even this part is correct

Not the wagon part. The way you are responding to this push on you is what makes me think you are mafia.

because

[Dunnstral]

ok so you think I should be talking to Klick about his POE in a large theme game where the game just started and nothing really has happened except me+friends wagoning two people

sure dunnstral how should I be talking to him about his POE

To be clear, I didn't say this. I don't know what you "should be" doing. What you "are" doing looks like you are mafia.

[Dunnstral]

My issue with you I've said. If you're town I don't know what I'd expect you to be doing, but what I am seeing from you makes me think you are mafia.

I don't even have a mafia incentive to create wagons so not even this part is correct

Not the wagon part. The way you are responding to this push on you is what makes me think you are mafia.

because

I've explained why. You keep going back to the same point and I think that is how mafia responds to this push.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok so you think I should be talking to Klick about his POE in a large theme game where the game just started and nothing really has happened except me+friends wagoning two people

sure dunnstral how should I be talking to him about his POE

To be clear, I didn't say this. I don't know what you "should be" doing. What you "are" doing looks like you are mafia.

dunnstral can you just be clear what you think I should be doing as town instead of repeating the same bullshit

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

My issue with you I've said. If you're town I don't know what I'd expect you to be doing, but what I am seeing from you makes me think you are mafia.

I don't even have a mafia incentive to create wagons so not even this part is correct

Not the wagon part. The way you are responding to this push on you is what makes me think you are mafia.

because

I've explained why. You keep going back to the same point and I think that is how mafia responds to this push.

ok and you think town would respond how when someone pushes them with a point that is nonsensical

[Dunnstral]

I don't know exactly what to expect from you as town. I don't know what you 'should' be doing, and that is not important to me.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't know exactly what to expect from you as town. I don't know what you 'should' be doing, and that is not important to me.

yea exactly so you're more interested in narrative pushing than actually sorting my behavior

[Dunnstral]

My issue with you I've said. If you're town I don't know what I'd expect you to be doing, but what I am seeing from you makes me think you are mafia.

I don't even have a mafia incentive to create wagons so not even this part is correct

Not the wagon part. The way you are responding to this push on you is what makes me think you are mafia.

because

I've explained why. You keep going back to the same point and I think that is how mafia responds to this push.

ok and you think town would respond how when someone pushes them with a point that is nonsensical

What I would do is try to make them prove their point if that is relevant, something which, if nonsensical, is likely not possible and will reveal their point as such.

As for what you would do? I don't know.

[Dunnstral]

I don't know exactly what to expect from you as town. I don't know what you 'should' be doing, and that is not important to me.

yea exactly so you're more interested in narrative pushing than actually sorting my behavior

I've sorted your behavior as mafia. I don't need to know exactly what you would do as town to think the way you are responding is mafia. I think you are repeatedly trying to twist my arguments.

[Dunnstral]

I think it's clear that you are not engaging in good faith or understand where I am coming from, and are instead trying to twist everything I say. You also continue to flood the thread with new questions instead of going back and fact-checking what you've already said. I'm going to bow out from this conversation. I suspect somebody will come in, see you've made angry posts, and lazily call you town. To that person, I implore you to rethink things.

[Dunnstral]

I tried for over an hour.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like this entire time I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe town dunnstral actually thinks Scum!Pooky does this while Town!Pooky does this and this is closer to scum!Pooky than town!pooky but you can't even come up with a reasonable course of action for Town!Pooky to be doing.

which shows me you really don't care what Town!Pooky would be doing because you're more interested in pushing the narrative that this is a scum reaction than a town reaction.

You want to push the narrative that if Pooky!mafia is pushed in a nonsensical way his reaction is to bludgeon the person pushing him and their case.

here's why that's wrong for a few reasons.

(1) bad cases are their own antidote, you don't need to smash a bad case because

it's a bad case

people will read it and be unconvinced. the best move as scum whenever someone shitpushes you with a bad case is to just ignore it because noone will be convinced by it and your own teammates won't push you for it. It's early d1 in a large theme and its not dangerous. pushing back just gives it more oxygen and focusses attention on you. attention is bad.

(2) creating interaction spaces inside a large theme that is not moving creates more sorting oppurtunities for the town, who takes what side, how the conflict plays out are all minus scum EV.


here's why I pretty much only react this way as town;

(1) reaction gauging - by shoving back at Klick's case I get to measure his reaction in real time across multiple interaction instances to see if he actually believes what he's selling or if it's scum shitpush for reasons.

(2) getting other people to take sides and chip in- who says something? who says nothing? who should know better but doesn't say anything? who eggs the conflict on ? these are all sorting instances and allows generation of reads on things that matter.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I think it's clear that you are not engaging in good faith or understand where I am coming from, and are instead trying to twist everything I say. You also continue to flood the thread with new questions instead of going back and fact-checking what you've already said. I'm going to bow out from this conversation. I suspect somebody will come in, see you've made angry posts, and lazily call you town. To that person, I implore you to rethink things.

I've reached out to you in the very beginning and asked for your counter factual.

you dodged me for over a day while inventing reason after reason and then claimed its actually not important at all for sorting which is just laughably untrue.

To claim that I'm not engaging in good faith is just comical atp

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't know exactly what to expect from you as town. I don't know what you 'should' be doing, and that is not important to me.

yea exactly so you're more interested in narrative pushing than actually sorting my behavior

I've sorted your behavior as mafia. I don't need to know exactly what you would do as town to think the way you are responding is mafia. I think you are repeatedly trying to twist my arguments.

you're adding the word "exactly" in order to strawman like I want you to come up with an exact mental model. I asked for one example to show you're actually even thinking about it rather than just narrative weaving

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

lastly I recognize that its possible that we're actually T/T here.

I want you to recognize that in the world where we're both town, you've done the equivalent of plugging your fingers in your ears and screaming "pooooooky is scuuuuuum" while I've been trying to understand your perspective and the only thing you can come up with is "you're mafia because this is how I expect mafia you to react i don't even know how town you would act and i don't care if you're town" which is a ROFL way to play this game and I hope you're actually mafia because I have no words if this is your townplay.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

lastly i want to address the last point you said about me being angry

i'm not angry

i'm having fun

im exasperated but having fun cuz games are about fun.

I will not hold it against any person in this game or any future game if I am mislimmed because its just a game and we're all doing our best.

[Klick]

I think it's clear that you are not engaging in good faith or understand where I am coming from, and are instead trying to twist everything I say. You also continue to flood the thread with new questions instead of going back and fact-checking what you've already said. I'm going to bow out from this conversation. I suspect somebody will come in, see you've made angry posts, and lazily call you town. To that person, I implore you to rethink things.

I think there's merit to this frankly