Mini Normal 2322: Game Over

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Gamma can read me I am safe

[ssbm_Kyouko]

VOTE: HPE

[HighPrincessErinys]

I had already expressed doubts about both you and HPE earlier, this is just saying XOR instead of OR. It's not an alt wagon if it's just tightening down what I've already said.

You're definitely in survival mode nonetheless imo

No way... one similarity in our pushes on Lap...

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I kinda thought the claim at E-3 was towny

I thought more than just Dragon said something like this which is why I thought there was revisioning going on but I must have imagined it - I know Dragon did see Laplacian as towny despite the claim at E-3 so I know he's not revisioning - could have sworn someone else said this too though after I made 1337:

Like the guy literally claimed at E-3 and was in panic mode for the majority of that push

[cw357]

THIS MEAT IS NOT FRESH

[Flavor Leaf]

It stank ya

[Flavor Leaf]

Let’s see if Joyboy was scum

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I had already expressed doubts about both you and HPE earlier, this is just saying XOR instead of OR. It's not an alt wagon if it's just tightening down what I've already said.

You're definitely in survival mode nonetheless imo

No way... one similarity in our pushes on Lap...

My point is that pre-flip of Lap you had no issue with me calling him survivalistic in 301, as you clearly agreed with that when you reiterated it in 392. Yet when I bring up the fact that he was claiming at E-3 (the claim happened in post 260, before you and I called him survivalistic) in 1337, suddenly, to quote your 1465, it's an "absolutely terrible [justification] and [defense] of the Lap wagon"

[HighPrincessErinys]

I had already expressed doubts about both you and HPE earlier, this is just saying XOR instead of OR. It's not an alt wagon if it's just tightening down what I've already said.

You're definitely in survival mode nonetheless imo

No way... one similarity in our pushes on Lap...

My point is that pre-flip of Lap you had no issue with me calling him survivalistic in 301, as you clearly agreed with that when you reiterated it in 392. Yet when I bring up the fact that he was claiming at E-3 (the claim happened in post 260, before you and I called him survivalistic) in 1337, suddenly, to quote your 1465, it's an "absolutely terrible [justification] and [defense] of the Lap wagon"

You realize you can't just magically recontextualize that specific post into the only thing it was talking about right? And you're right, he was survivalistic, this one said that too, but you're still throwing that in with your designated chunk of excuses. Something tangible amidst the bull to help it look better.

ssbm_Kyouko (3) - Flavor Leaf, HighPrincessErinys, Pavowski

Thinking about how the second Kyouko is in hammer range a bunch of votes on her move off and around.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

also ngl I thought you (HPE) later went and said that you thought Laplacian's claim at E-3 was towny which is why I thought there was revisioning going on, but it was just Dragon saying that and that wasn't news

[Flavor Leaf]

Yeah, i think it’s scum indicative of one of Dragon/Hu Tao regardless of Kyouko’s alignment.

Idk which though

[HighPrincessErinys]

Actually fucking yeah thinking about the wagon shifts is giving me a brain blast. Kyouko/Hu Tao/Pavowski team feels very possible with Pavowski re-voting and trying to play it cool and not look too suspect after HT also gets off. Maybe this one is overlooking the possibility of Dragon since he's a townlean for it and needed a nudge from Kyouko (and similarly to Pav, has said it's only a temporary unvote) but even then it feels like there's BARE MINIMUM 2 scum in Kyouko/Pav/HT/Dragon.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Actually fucking yeah thinking about the wagon shifts is giving me a brain blast. Kyouko/Hu Tao/Pavowski team feels very possible with Pavowski re-voting and trying to play it cool and not look too suspect after HT also gets off. Maybe this one is overlooking the possibility of Dragon since he's a townlean for it and needed a nudge from Kyouko (and similarly to Pav, has said it's only a temporary unvote) but even then it feels like there's BARE MINIMUM 2 scum in Kyouko/Pav/HT/Dragon.

Gonna go take a walk and then probably go to the store afterwards but this is the solve honestly.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t necessarily think Pav. Pav wanted the balance of pressure, and the weird unknowing with Dragon/Hu Tao looks rough. I still think final scum would be in the others.

I could be wrong, though, and it is.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s the way they both wanted people to know they are very much still on the wagon. But they literally aren’t

[DragonEater70]

Gamma can read me I am safe

Unfortunately, in every world where you are town Gamma is scum

Also

I'd like to be able to say that I read your meta thing, but I didn't because I am freaking exhausted (and my philosophy is there's no point in trying to get anything AI out of wallposts when I'm tired), so I'll read it tomorrow at some point.

[DragonEater70]

I kinda thought the claim at E-3 was towny

I thought more than just Dragon said something like this which is why I thought there was revisioning going on but I must have imagined it - I know Dragon did see Laplacian as towny despite the claim at E-3 so I know he's not revisioning - could have sworn someone else said this too though after I made 1337:

Like the guy literally claimed at E-3 and was in panic mode for the majority of that push

Not sure what's revisioning, but Hu Tao said she agreed with my 1339 I think.

[Flavor Leaf]

It’s possible they are scum/scum as well.

I’m ready to see what approach Gamma takes

[DragonEater70]

Same

Goodnight!

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I had already expressed doubts about both you and HPE earlier, this is just saying XOR instead of OR. It's not an alt wagon if it's just tightening down what I've already said.

You're definitely in survival mode nonetheless imo

No way... one similarity in our pushes on Lap...

My point is that pre-flip of Lap you had no issue with me calling him survivalistic in 301, as you clearly agreed with that when you reiterated it in 392. Yet when I bring up the fact that he was claiming at E-3 (the claim happened in post 260, before you and I called him survivalistic) in 1337, suddenly, to quote your 1465, it's an "absolutely terrible [justification] and [defense] of the Lap wagon"

You realize you can't just magically recontextualize that specific post into the only thing it was talking about right? And you're right, he was survivalistic, this one said that too,

but you're still throwing that in with your designated chunk of excuses.

Something tangible amidst the bull to help it look better.

ssbm_Kyouko (3) - Flavor Leaf, HighPrincessErinys, Pavowski

Thinking about how the second Kyouko is in hammer range a bunch of votes on her move off and around.

Let's break that down - my "chunk of excuses" you're referring to is my ISO 126-129.
My ISO 126 had 2 points:
-Laplacian was too focused on defending himself and not on finding scum
-Laplacian only had one post that gave me any pause
127: "Like the guy literally claimed at E-3 and was in panic mode for the majority of that push" / "He didn't exactly help himself"
The point of these 2 posts follows:
-Laplacian's claim was survivalistic

128 doesn't have its own point but reinforces the first point in 126, and the point of 127
-"He didn't exactly help himself" refers to claiming at E-3 and focusing more on defending himself (and counterattacking me) than on finding scum
129 is quoting the post that gave me pause referenced in 126.

These 4 posts basically boil down to 3 things:
1. Lap defended himself more than he sorted (I'll also add now that his sorting felt very OMGUS-ey to me)
2. Of his defense, only one post was somewhat convincing
3. Laplacian was being survivalistic

I think it's hypocritical of you to say I've made absolutely terrible justifications and defenses of the Lap wagon when you agreed he was being survivalistic and you helped push it along quite a lot actually, looking back on it. I didn't remember anyone but me really pushing it. abnegation, you, and pav all sheeped on. Geraintm joined which I feel like is NAI for him on D1, bringing it to E-2. Flavor decided because Lap had claimed VT he would be a fine lim for D1 and asked Dragon to vote Lap, then Flavor/Dragon finished off the wagon (I don't recall the order of the votes)

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Gamma can read me I am safe

Unfortunately, in every world where you are town Gamma is scum

Also

I'd like to be able to say that I read your meta thing, but I didn't because I am freaking exhausted (and my philosophy is there's no point in trying to get anything AI out of wallposts when I'm tired), so I'll read it tomorrow at some point.

This isn't a problem, Gamma can be held to BoP if she votes me and I flip town - I don't think this is necessarily the case though, but I see how it may seem that way because of your purple TR.

[Hu Tao]

Yeah, i think it’s scum indicative of one of Dragon/Hu Tao regardless of Kyouko’s alignment.

Idk which though

Not sure what that has to do with me

[Hu Tao]

Actually fucking yeah thinking about the wagon shifts is giving me a brain blast. Kyouko/Hu Tao/Pavowski team feels very possible with Pavowski re-voting and trying to play it cool and not look too suspect after HT also gets off. Maybe this one is overlooking the possibility of Dragon since he's a townlean for it and needed a nudge from Kyouko (and similarly to Pav, has said it's only a temporary unvote) but even then it feels like there's BARE MINIMUM 2 scum in Kyouko/Pav/HT/Dragon.

I removed my vote as a gesture. Especially since joyboy was getting replaced anyway, day wasn't ending

[Hu Tao]

It’s the way they both wanted people to know they are very much still on the wagon. But they literally aren’t

VOTE: kyouko

[ssbm_Kyouko]

HPE's progression on me:

im still pissed that I was (presumably?) wrong about flavor
UNVOTE:

How does this change your reads

see below

Oh I see, DE is scum trying to bait out the real vig
VOTE: DE

well this means at least one scum in DE/Kyouko, which I could have seen already.
I arrive at the following conclusion:
If Kyouko is town then DE/Flavor ig could be w/w? Maybe both Kyo and DE are scum
But I'm going to go out on a limb and VOTE: ssbm_Kyouko
prob should vig DE if kyouko flips town

I'm not going to pretend to understand the logic of why this post means Kyo or DE or *both* could be scum, but the more I sit with it the more scum!Dragon makes sense to me

VOTE: Dragon

This is definitely a scum post

Like Pav isn't even pretending to have a reason to vote me. It's thinly veiled OMGUS on a slot that he sees is coming under fire, when he needs to divert attention off hinself after the towncore starts suspecting him.

Game solved GGEZ

This one can see it with the example you quoted but it's still like, pretty pleased with his earlier play? But it supposes this could be a caught scum flailing moment or however you wanna describe it. This one will think on it. Reminder to me also to go and take a look at PM and Kyouko because

they've not been on it's radar all that much this game.

First it says I haven't been on it's radar all that much this game which seems like it must just be a lie given that the 2 of us were the active pushers of the Laplacian wagon and that some of the points HPE makes about Laplacian are the same as mine - clearly she has been reading and agreeing with my push on Laplacian so now on D2 after the green flip, to disassociate from me is to disassociate from the Lap wagon and this looks very fake. Also note that it has hedged between myself and purplemango here.

can you give me a short list for everyone?

Flavor Leaf

cw357

(but needs to Get Real or Get Dead)

DragonEater70

Hu Tao
ssbm_Kyouko (this one needs to bother reading her iso so fucking bad)
Purplemango

geraintm

Joyboy

Pavowski

Purplemango feels the best out of the 3 lurkers but all of them really, really need to start contributing.

Here I'm just totally null even though, again, we both super pushed Laplacian on D1. It feels disingenuous of it to say it needs to read my ISO, and also it never does make a post casing my ISO. I'm honestly not convinced it even read my ISO.

i think the fact more people dont hop on Kyouko is scum indicative of Kyouko. Why would scum not want a town Kyouko misfade here?

This one was thinking about it but got busy. The last few posts were pretty... yuck for me, even without my TBD ISO dive.

This is just sheeping the conftown, and I think that's also why PM ended up as the top of the 3 lurkers on the previous readslist, because Flavor has decided PM is town for not having an objective.

Also finally got around to that ISO lookin' at and yeah this one is okay with this if cw isn't possible. And even then it might just be tunneled as fuck on cw considering it literally acknowledges he's town, just a liablity.
VOTE: Kyouko E-1

Again, I don't think this ISO dive ever happened, because HPE has yet to provide anything besides my "last few posts" which refers to my "excuses" for the Laplacian push. I think maybe it opened my ISO from a recent post because it's using ISO post numbers, but I don't think it read me from start to finish, because if it did, why has it only cited specifics from my ISO 126-130? It cites "finally got around to that ISO [looking]" as a reason it is okay with me as the lim if cw is not possible...

I don't agree fully with a kyouku hang thus I will not vote

def think dragon or hu tao is a stronger bet

I thought I'd seen you vote me already but I must be remembering voiced suspicions rather than a vote.

I remember wanting to ask someone who they thought was scum and why because it felt like there was a lot of sheeping of Flavor going on

@HPE, Pavowski, cw:

Who are you thinking is scum and why? 2 scumreads preferably

Direct yourself here. Only difference is you've moved into scum territory after your recent string of bad posts (126 to 130 in isolation, and less severely the meta defense is very Meh to me.) and an ISO review.

... and in the next post, it cites "and an ISO review." It never points to anything specific in my ISO it has a problem with. I think it's taking the convenient route of sheeping Flavor. On D1 it sheeped me. It's just sheeping town that have big thread presence and proscum reads imo.