Mini Normal 2322: Game Over

[tris]

Votecount 2.8

With 10 players alive, it takes 6 votes to eliminate. Day 2 ends in (expired on 2024-01-02 19:46:41).

Votecount

ssbm_Kyouko (4)

- Flavor Leaf, HighPrincessErinys, Hu Tao, cw357

HighPrincessErinys (1)

- ssbm_Kyouko

Gamma Emerald (1)

- DragonEater70

Not Voting (4)

- geraintm, Purplemango, Pavowski, Gamma Emerald

Flavour

Mod notes

[DragonEater70]

If you’re town then you’re fucking dogshit at reading me

Are you sure? I locktowned you in both Love Child and Mini 2317

For reasons that clearly are not that good, based on what you’ve chosen to townread cw for

I am not really townreading cw

Also that's a really fucking bad fallacy

Like you just said I can't read you, Gamma, and when I try to prove I can, you try to show I can't read people in general by pointing out a totally unrelated read.

[Flavor Leaf]

ive lightweight known where im shooting pre-Gamma entrance, and I probably am gonna stick to the choice.

[DragonEater70]

My current solve is Kyouko, CW, and one of Hu Tao/Dragon.

Geraint could slide in there if they’re scum in place of one of them, but I’m pretty happy with the other slots.

Most of Kyouko’s posts today were a lot of IioA, and there were conclusions made directed towards HPE.

I just think HPE fits the bill of impressionable town (not in a bad way) and takes the time to consider the cases that get presented.

Feels like they’ve just been on too many of the wagons outwardly, and i don’t think scum do it like that that often.

I'm telling you with 100% certainty that this is a wrong solve

I'm also pretty sure Gamma is scum from her catch up

>:/

That's not a town!Gamma reaction to being scumread

[Flavor Leaf]

how many games have you played with Gamma?

[DragonEater70]

i have seen zero non meta reasons for Kyouko to be town.

I have exactly one reason for Kyouko to be town, but it's good enough

Kyouko is MILES out of her scumrange

[Flavor Leaf]

Pavowski
HPE

Purplemango
DragonEater

Geraintm
CW

Hu Tao
Gamma Emerald

ssbm_Kyouko

One scum in each of the 3 bottom tiers imo. If Kyouko town, scum is in top 2 tiers.

[Flavor Leaf]

i have seen zero non meta reasons for Kyouko to be town.

I have exactly one reason for Kyouko to be town, but it's good enough

Kyouko is MILES out of her scumrange

getting caught day 2 is out of her scum range?

[DragonEater70]

how many games have you played with Gamma?

Not counting the game you recently modded, I think 4 completed games? And I am pretty sure I correctly read her in every single one

[Flavor Leaf]

i have seen zero non meta reasons for Kyouko to be town.

I have exactly one reason for Kyouko to be town, but it's good enough

Kyouko is MILES out of her scumrange

this is also a meta case, that I don't agree with with the little bits of what i read about the self meta and joined in meta.

[Gamma Emerald]

If you’re town then you’re fucking dogshit at reading me

Are you sure? I locktowned you in both Love Child and Mini 2317

For reasons that clearly are not that good, based on what you’ve chosen to townread cw for

I am not really townreading cw

Also that's a really fucking bad fallacy

Like you just said I can't read you, Gamma, and when I try to prove I can, you try to show I can't read people in general by pointing out a totally unrelated read.

I don’t care what your current read on cw is because if you’re seriously saying you think forced posting is towny then you are, just, UGH
And my point with that fallacy was to get you to think about how you’ve come to the reads you have. You may have read me correctly a couple of times but I don’t think you’ve really managed to show your work enough to be a reliable source of reading me. To gain my respect in that regard is something to be earned.

[Flavor Leaf]

scum really dont want kyouko dead

[Gamma Emerald]

Flavor, what will it take for you to agree to my request? I really feel like with how DE has planted himself this game, a kyouko scumflip uproots him to the point that he should be readable from the response to that fact alone.

[Flavor Leaf]

i am taking every single player's impressions on the vig shot into consideration, but i dont see the good in confirming where i will shoot, if i shoot. I like 95% will, but yeah.

[Flavor Leaf]

Flavor, what will it take for you to agree to my request? I really feel like with how DE has planted himself this game, a kyouko scumflip uproots him to the point that he should be readable from the response to that fact alone.

a dead scum would still be a dead scum and a dead dragon one less scum if scum to scumhunt. i think you could say this about most slots bar geraint, but a dead DE would give a lot of info, not that im saying im shooting there or disagreeing with your point, youre probably right. but scum is scum is scum

we'll see where the cards lay.

[Flavor Leaf]

part of me wants to shoot Hu Tao because of DE, but dont want to fall into a reverse psychology trap if DE is scum, Hu Taown.

[Gamma Emerald]

Do you at least agree with my opinion that DE’s reaction to a kyouko scumflip should be telling? I don’t need an assurance that you’ll follow the letter of my idea as long as you recognize the spirit of it.

[Flavor Leaf]

a town kill doesnt matter too much either with our numbers, it just gets rid of a possible misfade in that case.

but ill obv shoot someone i think has a high equity scum chance after the flip.

[cw357]

Okay there's too many pages for me to just skim everything quickly so I am going to say what I think with the caveat that I might change my mind after reading everything since last night properly:

This message is addressed to Flavor.

I am NOT, by any measure, a very good scum hunter. If somebody nominated me for Paragon of Mafia Hunters I'd laugh in their face.

BUT

I am VERY good at correctly finding town. In Love Child, I had a correct townblock of 6 people when there were 11 players alive - enough that if we just limmed everyone outside of it, it would have been auto-win. And it's important to note that Gamma wanted to add Hu Tao (scum) to it and I DID NOT agree because I had doubts on her. In Mini Normal 2317, I called the following people "locktown" / "hard town" at various stages of the game, and they were all town: Titus, Elements, Gamma, Naerys. (Admittedly I called Snivy locktown too but that was for like 2 minutes and I promptly changed my mind and went back to pushing him so it doesn't count). On the other hand the scum team hovered between nullscum and nulltown for the entire game.

Now my point being, Hu Tao is

TOWN

. Don't you fucking dare put her in a solve.

My other point being, I'm actually pretty sure Kyouko is town. Like really pretty sure. I'd like to not vote her today. I'd also like to not vote me today and I'd ALSO prefer to not vote cw today (but I am not really sure he's town). Yeah I know this goes against everything you believe, Flavor, but sometimes you gotta trust other people in the game of mafia. Unless you can provide me proof that you can read Kyouko extremely well or something, I am going to have to say that you need to "trust me bro" on this one. Do you know why I lost 2317? Not because I wasn't townreading town. Because I let people convince me that my (correct) townreads were not correct. And because I did not double down on these strong townreads and vote everyone who I wasn't TRing.

Now if you'll excuse me, let's vote scum (aka people I am not TRing).

VOTE: Gamma

gamma's playstyle irks me but this is so scummy its hilarious
please vig dragon please vig dragon

kyouku will flip town i feel relatively confident so we need the most definite scum flip we can find, not some complicated gambit that you're trying to come up with fl

[Flavor Leaf]

Do you at least agree with my opinion that DE’s reaction to a kyouko scumflip should be telling? I don’t need an assurance that you’ll follow the letter of my idea as long as you recognize the spirit of it.

telling in what way?They think she's town, if Kyouko flips town, they can go the i knew it route, and if she flips scum, he can go the 'good job, thats on me' route.

[Flavor Leaf]

Okay there's too many pages for me to just skim everything quickly so I am going to say what I think with the caveat that I might change my mind after reading everything since last night properly:

This message is addressed to Flavor.

I am NOT, by any measure, a very good scum hunter. If somebody nominated me for Paragon of Mafia Hunters I'd laugh in their face.

BUT

I am VERY good at correctly finding town. In Love Child, I had a correct townblock of 6 people when there were 11 players alive - enough that if we just limmed everyone outside of it, it would have been auto-win. And it's important to note that Gamma wanted to add Hu Tao (scum) to it and I DID NOT agree because I had doubts on her. In Mini Normal 2317, I called the following people "locktown" / "hard town" at various stages of the game, and they were all town: Titus, Elements, Gamma, Naerys. (Admittedly I called Snivy locktown too but that was for like 2 minutes and I promptly changed my mind and went back to pushing him so it doesn't count). On the other hand the scum team hovered between nullscum and nulltown for the entire game.

Now my point being, Hu Tao is

TOWN

. Don't you fucking dare put her in a solve.

My other point being, I'm actually pretty sure Kyouko is town. Like really pretty sure. I'd like to not vote her today. I'd also like to not vote me today and I'd ALSO prefer to not vote cw today (but I am not really sure he's town). Yeah I know this goes against everything you believe, Flavor, but sometimes you gotta trust other people in the game of mafia. Unless you can provide me proof that you can read Kyouko extremely well or something, I am going to have to say that you need to "trust me bro" on this one. Do you know why I lost 2317? Not because I wasn't townreading town. Because I let people convince me that my (correct) townreads were not correct. And because I did not double down on these strong townreads and vote everyone who I wasn't TRing.

Now if you'll excuse me, let's vote scum (aka people I am not TRing).

VOTE: Gamma

gamma's playstyle irks me but this is so scummy its hilarious
please vig dragon please vig dragon

kyouku will flip town i feel relatively confident so we need the most definite scum flip we can find, not some complicated gambit that you're trying to come up with fl

im not gambiting anything

[cw357]

Pavowski
HPE

Purplemango
DragonEater

Geraintm
CW

Hu Tao
Gamma Emerald

ssbm_Kyouko

One scum in each of the 3 bottom tiers imo. If Kyouko town, scum is in top 2 tiers.

im not scum and i dont think geraint is either
why do you put him in that category out of curiosity Flavor Leaf

[Flavor Leaf]

Pavowski
HPE

Purplemango
DragonEater

Geraintm
CW

Hu Tao
Gamma Emerald

ssbm_Kyouko

One scum in each of the 3 bottom tiers imo. If Kyouko town, scum is in top 2 tiers.

im not scum and i dont think geraint is either
why do you put him in that category out of curiosity Flavor Leaf

theres a good amount of oddities between Kyouko and Geraint, like Kyouko bringing up weird meta reasonings and assumptions about Geraint that just aren't true, and the way Geraint joined and follow Kyouko's tunnel.

[Flavor Leaf]

Gamma's obv protecting Kyouko if scum, so DE's push onto Gamma is kinda weird.

[Flavor Leaf]

if Gamma scum, not kyouko. this is regardless of Kyouko's alignment if Gamma ends up being scum.