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[Gamma Emerald]

Katsuki’s return lifted my mood
The rhyming is a result of my good ‘tude.
Last I rhymed it was because of the game’s flavor
Don’t think it was truly on brand but I think it did a favor
I found 2 scum in the first 2 days
Unfortunately this success didn’t carry all the way
But I am feeling a slump, so this lyrical reprise
I’m hoping will help me see thing through fresh eyes.

[davesaz]

My dear dave, how do you do?
I have a tiny question for you
Out slips that “do not exist”
Does TMI belong on that list?

That's primarily a theory question and the answer is thus primarily theory. If you'd like to rephrase to a specific in-game incident I'd be happy to apply this to specifics.

First a clarification that "doesn't exist" should really be expressed as "isn't AI", since people obviously do hit submit on posts that are messed up or seem to be messed up. I tend to write the short form where the part I leave out is really obvious to me but others may not have a shared understanding. It's really annoying when that happens on technical documents.

I think my reaction to something that seems TMI would depend on how trivial or obvious the TMI seems to be. If a reasonable person could guess it, then I'd be less likely to think it's AI.
Also I keep in mind that some town may have specialized knowledge that other do not, for example having a role that is predictive of another role existing or not existing. Especially in complex games. So "TMI" does not necessarily equal "scum" for certain specific cases.

[Gamma Emerald]

I felt there might have been TMI earlier so I wanted your input
on whether that would be something for which you might look

[DragonEater70]

Okay so assuming it is a reaction to voting myself, what do you think about the vote?

Do you have any thoughts on the game outside of your wagon that you tried to drag us back to RVS with after we had already managed to swiftly progress past that stage?

Yes, and I believe I voiced them already.

But anyway I'm TRing Black, Naerys, Hu Tao and also Kitty and Gamma a bit.

I was TRing Thomith earlier but I don't love his recent posts, they kinda feel like he's stumbling over his own words in an effort to explain things, which I don't think I've seen town!Thomith see before. I also dislike his focus on me and the fact that he doesn't feel like he wants to engage with other areas of the game yet. Like if he's scum he probably feels safe on my wagon and isn't sure how to play the around switching a vote. Overall nullscum.

I also think Kyo's vote on and approach to my slot is pretty scummy. Like she voted me for apparently self-voting, people asked her of that's the reason and she didn't answer. Now that she' s back in the thread she says she "vibes with" my explanation of the self vote but kept the vote on me with no further commemt.

I think there's definitely scum in those 2.

Then I believe I also said I think there's scum on Naerys wagon? I think Naerys is decently towny and I don't get the votes there at all. I guess my mindmeld with Gamma on that is mostly why I TR Gamma.
You didn't give any reasoning, as far as I can tell, for that vote, which isn't necessarily scummy but isn't very towny either. Kitty is towny for other reasons and I guess I believe his thought on Naerys, even though I disagree with it, so I don't think it's him. Snivy I barely have an impression of this game. I guess he could easily be scum.

I haven't read Black's case on dave yet but I think he could be scum since he hasn't been doing anything this game.

[Thomith]

Im focusing on you the most because right now I think you're the scum in the Naerys/DE70/Gamma group. I am commenting on other things and asking questions when something catches my attention, so to say I'm ignoring everything else going on on the game is false.

I have given my thoughts on the two other things you have asked me about, I just am more convinced on my read on you right now than my understanding of those things.
I need to see more from Kyo (there may have been since I last checker, I haven't reread the thread yet), before I think I'll be able to read her either way, to see if I get the townvibes from her that I did in 09:12.

[Thomith]

The main thing that pings me, because scum used to do this a LOT when I last played, is people pointing out things that are weird but not necessarily scummy, that could lead to easy wagons.

It's why I didn't like people focusing on the Juggernaut claim.

I also don't like Dave focusing so much on Gamma rhyming, because it feels like a similar situation.

[DragonEater70]

It's hard to describe but Dave's iso just feels a little... stiff

It feels like he's trying to be careful or something

I don't like his initial reaction to Katsuki's juggernaut claim (70) and I think him being so easily open to the idea of finally witnessing a slip doesn't mesh with his opinion that slips never happen in 213

I'm not a big fan of him asking me a question in 97 and then not following up with my answer

I think a lot of his posts feel like filler posts or ways to seem busy without actually solving much. There's a little bit of solving in 316 but these are just blanket statements that scum could easily come up with. His Gamma train of thought from this post has gone no where and he doesn't seem to have any interest digging further, and then the Naerys/Hu takes both give off the vibe that dave needs to reread or look further but I get the feeling he is just going to leave these reads hanging

His mentioning of hating self votes a couple of times (251, 399) just feels a little performative imo

Hmm I could see the Dave scumread. Don't feel too strongly on it though.

I think if nobody joins me on Kyo or Thomith, I'd vote Dave just to get a wagon going.

[DragonEater70]

The main thing that pings me, because scum used to do this a LOT when I last played, is people pointing out things that are weird but not necessarily scummy, that could lead to easy wagons.

It's why I didn't like people focusing on the Juggernaut claim.

I also don't like Dave focusing so much on Gamma rhyming, because it feels like a similar situation.

But I haven't done that and I haven't even "focus" on that claim. I literally asked a question and moved on.

[DragonEater70]

Actually

VOTE: Thomith

[Thomith]

It genuinely feels like you're just jumping where the wagons are to see what sticks, which is screaming being very opportunistic to me.

Granted, I could be tunelled and you're doing this to create pressure, but the reason I'm unsure of this is because you are also claiming you're willing to vote elsewhere, not fully committing to a push.

You asked a question, then jumped on me even though you were thinking pretty much the same thing regarding the claim, then seemed to backtrack when you said that you had the same reasoning, which is what properly pinged me about your slot.

You're saying I'm scum that doesn't know how to jump off your wagon without looking weird, but I already have a tonne of heat on me, so if I was scum, why would I continue to push the points that got me heat in the first place?

[biancospino]

Replacing Celebloki.

Prodding KittyTacky.

[Black]

I guess Dragon could be scum

I don't like the way Dave is focusing on Gamma's rhyming but his point about Gamma maybe wanting to avoid being tone read isn't awful

[Black]

Im focusing on you the most because right now I think you're the scum in the Naerys/DE70/Gamma group

Why do you think there is scum in this group

[Thomith]

Thats basically scum confession
VOTE: Katsuki

Katsuki what exactly does your role do

I think Katsuki’s claim deserves a closer glance
Not sure it’s real but it makes me look askance

These 3 posts about Katsukis claim make me want to keep an eye on these slots.
I feel like it was obvious the Juggernaut claim was a joke, and I do feel like it could be an easy opportunity for an opportunistic scum to jump on that.

Because of my point here, feels like a way for scum to jump on an easy point to look like they are trying to solve.

[KittyTacky]

Ooooof sorry was busy yesterday, will catch up tomorrow.

[KittyTacky]

ngl caught up anyways today (felt swingy).

Nothing to say really.

[Black]

That seems like a pretty weak thing to latch on to

Dragon's response in particular feels like he was trying to get more out of Katsuki to gauge how serious her claim was. It doesn't look like he jumped on her at all

I think Dragon could be scum for other reasons but I'm not really seeing this as +scum for him

[Black]

If I had to guess I would say Dragon/Thomith is TvT

[Black]

ngl caught up anyways today (felt swingy).

Nothing to say really.

What do your reads look like

[Katsuki]

votecount

Votecount 1-XI

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to hammer, or 6 to decide for no execution.

Naerys (3):

camelCasedSnivy, KittyTacky, Katsuki

DragonEater70 (3):

Hu Tao, ssbm_Kyouko, Thomith

Thomith (2):

Naerys, Gamma Emerald

ssbm_Kyouko (1):

DragonEater70

davesaz (1):

Black

Not Voting (2):

davesaz, Celebloki

notes

• The deadline is due in (expired on 2024-01-07 07:46:06).
  
• You can find the combined mod ISO here
  
• Celebloki is V/LA 'till 01/JAN

I'll be thoroughly amused later on if it turned out the leading wagons were both on scum.

[Naerys]

My Monday effort:
Thom starts to feel slightly towny

What townie pings are you getting from him now that you didn't get before

leave the poor dude alone

Vote Naerys

I feel like this is NAI, because I could see this being scum defending someone they know as a Townie, but could also see it as a Townie noticing someone getting dogpiled for a (imo) meh reason, and not liking it.

I'd like to hear if you still think Naerys is scummy though CCS.

Thats basically scum confession
VOTE: Katsuki

...I'm pretty sure that was a joke. Scum response.

VOTE: Naerys

I'm inclined to town read this vote, but that could just be because I agree with the reasoning behind it, I do think there is at least one scum in the people that jumped on Katsuki for the Juggernaut claim.

@Katsuki, is your top scumread davesaz currently? And is that based just on him claiming not to have a background with you even though je should have, or is there more to it?

I'm at a point where I'm quite content to sit back and see how things play out. I'm also somewhat rusty and mishandled my posting regarding dave so kinda gave him an easy out of any potential pressure. Rushed my posting and gave him the chance to use the convenient excuse of

"oh I forgot"

. The rest of his posting has been underwhelming and given me no reason to not trust my gut for now.

There is one player I'd be happy to see nom'ed today, but with the current game state there's no realistic chance of me getting support for their nom today so in the meantime I'm just going to chill until flips hopefully go my way to enable me to nail a wagon onto them.

Just wanted to clarify by the first sentence, that has nothing to do davesaz and should've been a different line. Meant to read that I'm content with this game state and how the day is progressing to let my reads continue develop.

Our votes are quite scattered at the moment as well so lets spice things up a bit.

VOTE: NAERYS

This vote is the weirdest on the wagon to me, just because I cant tell just from this if Katsuki thinks Naerys is scum, but I don't think jumping on a wagon early on with little reasoning is inherently scum only behaviour?

From this post it starts to feel as if Thom is trying to sort people.

[davesaz]

Thomith I can see as a decent suspect
since if katsuki is town scum would detect
the ruse of her Juggernaut claim quite readily
and could lead to how he's pushed certain people so heavily

Fine, I'll directly answer this.
I don't think

anyone

would actually believe a Juggernaut claim, and I don't think anyone would true claim it.
TMI is not required to take that position.

[davesaz]

I don't like the way Dave is focusing on Gamma's rhyming but his point about Gamma maybe wanting to avoid being tone read isn't awful

I'm doing more than you think, those posts are poking for a specific reaction. Gamma isn't taking the bait in a situation where the scum and town responses can be markedly different.
I'm starting to believe the explanation that was given.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I also think Kyo's vote on and approach to my slot is pretty scummy. Like she voted me for apparently self-voting, people asked her of that's the reason and she didn't answer. Now that she' s back in the thread she says she "vibes with" my explanation of the self vote but kept the vote on me with no further commemt.

This doesn't feel like an accurate representation to me...

"Like she voted me for apparently self-voting":

This is a partial truth. The whole truth, as I've already explained, is that I think you're self-voting to break up wagons forming on yourself, despite your claims that you're trying to build wagons on yourself to catch scum on them.

"people asked her of that's the reason and she didn't answer":

Nobody asked me why I voted you. I'm double checking now, and the closest anyone came to asking was Thomith when he assumed I had been asked why I voted you in 378. To this point, still nobody has asked me, though I've already given my reason.

"Now that she' s back in the thread she says she "vibes with" my explanation of the self vote but kept the vote on me with no further comment":

snipped, and [edited] below

Ok let's hear [why you self vote] anyway

I enjoy being wagoned early

I might be superstitious but I feel it helps me find scum better (especially when said scum is on my wagon)

Also I just hate being nullread by people. I feel a lot better being either scum read or townread.

I kinda vibe with this - I dont enjoy being wagoned early or at all, but I do tend to find the scum on my wagons when they happen.

I think voting yourself is kinda counterintuitive to this though - it's only going to scare people away usually, not build the wagon. Which is why it's sus you did it twice

When I say "I

kinda

vibe with this", emphasis on the kinda, I'm saying I partially agree with how you feel about being wagoned - because being wagoned helps me find scum better. The problem with this though, is that voting yourself is not conducive to getting a wagon going on yourself where you'll be able to identify the scum on your wagon. I think the real reason you're voting yourself here when wagoned, is to discourage any more votes coming your way. Furthermore, if you really were trying to build up your own wagon to find the scum on it, I would expect a more convincing read than this (combined with the snippet of 480 I'm breaking down now):

Also

Are we just gonna ignore how Kyouko jumped on my wagon with a practically naked vote, and her other engagement with the game could be summed up by a bunch of nothing posts and then overexplaining why Hu Tao is town for scumreading Thomith?

tl;dr - Dragon is generalizing my posts and ignoring the details where it's convenient for his faked scumread on me

[davesaz]

Why haven't you gone back to your To Do List in 316 yet?

Yesterday up to when I started posting today, for the most obvious reason of all.

408 is part of the followup.
I can't expand much on the reason for the Hu Tao observation without getting into a forbidden subject. The correct way to read that comment is that it's going to make it hard to get a read on her.

Ok, that's fair. Who do you think is scum?

I don't think I've seen much if anything that's overtly scummy. Lots of contenders for least towny, so many that I'd have to think about it.
As someone who goes primarily by memory, breaks like holidays wreak havoc on me.