Open 899 - The Pizza Kids Coalition [Game Over]

[DragonEater70]

I'm actually really pissed off that you did that

Like there's a reason it's a secret alt

[DragonEater70]

Gonna chill out now

[ssbm_Kyouko]

Alright game solved for realsies

HEAL: Klick, Appearance, Dragon, Elements, DeasVail

Now I just lurk until DV and Klick figure out this is the correct solve and then we just convince two others.

The kind of rhetoric of this post is something I feel like I could write an essay about. In the last coalition game I played, I was scum and there was a player (Hero at Heart) who was repeatedly giving similar rhetoric of surety about their coalition (nb: both scum were in it). I think d1 in that game was somewhat easy for me to navigate probably in large part due to that kind of rhetoric, where certain people (myself included) were almost viewed as above scrutiny in a way that felt like it radiated out from Hero's reads. Granted, Hero actually did change his reads plenty of times iirc, but ultimately the town deferred to it with the only real objection coming from me (because i softly wanted my scumbuddy off the coalition).

In this case, I think this coalition is massively likely to have scum on it somewhere. And I don't think DragonEater has the same kind of rhetorical sway that Hero did in that game. But it really makes me not like the direction that this day is going right now.

It’s weird to me that you’d use the amount of time since we last played together to question the reliability of my read on you and then make an unsolicited comment on my scumplay (particularly since 5-10 years ago I was probably better known for strong town play than strong scum play).

The comment on scumplay is more a continuation of 155 than it is of 156

I should note that Hero at Heart is an alt of Dragon

wait like this DragonEater70?

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I kinda wanna town read gob for his really awful reads but the thing is he has awful reads as both alignments so I dunno

Anyway back to the actual point - I really wanna trust Klick because he risked not being in the coalition and because I somewhat doubt he would have needed to do the whole "sheep dragon" gambit as scum knowing that I didn't really trust him. On the other hand the gambit probably would have been amazing in a Klick/DV world.

Same thing -ish about Ydra, I don't really get why scum her would vote a coalition like that though obviously there is the (tiny) possibility of being scum with Klick or DV sooo

Idk

At least I know for sure the team isn't DV/implo now.

What do you mean "vote a coalition

like that

" with Ydra?

Ydra voted a coalition that didn't include her and I thought that was pretty clearing, though of course if she was scum with Klick or something it wouldn't be really clearing. Idk I'm still thinking in implosion = scum terms.

Oh you mean like before the final coalition was locked in, I see

[DeasVail]

DE reminds me a lot of how I used to play scum back in like 2021-ish

It feels like he's spending the whole game flailing around and trying to get townread, if that makes sense??

It makes sense to me, but right now at least, I think there are enough things that go beyond what would be necessary for Dragon as scum to look town (e.g. the extent of paranoia about me +/- Klick, the efforts to derail a coalition that would have been perfectly fine for him as scum).

I think Kyouko is the most likely scum in the 5, because there was clear effort to change the status quo and I don't think her approach to the post-coalition phase so far is particularly town, nor does it feel like a natural continuation of her coalition phase opinions/play.

[Appearance]

I'm actually really pissed off that you did that

Like there's a reason it's a secret alt

i am just going to pretend i never saw t3 mention ur alt and that i had no idea beforehand it was ur alt.

[Appearance]

tho u aren't the only one who has had their alts outed before.

[DragonEater70]

tho u aren't the only one who has had their alts outed before.

I apologize if I outed you, I just threw a random guess.

[Appearance]

To my knowledge, town wins if we form a 5 pizza kids coaltion (who are all town) on Day 1.

Correct me if I am wrong.

we already formed a coalition
that happened during the coalition phase.

Okay i see. I think we eliminate outside of teh coalition then.

as in ur proposed coalition?
the one that ended up being voted on failed so scum has to be in it.

sorry if i'm coming off as rude tho.

No its all good, clearly I was misinformed and I apologize.

Kyouko does seem hesitant which is usually how she is as scum.

that's good then.

[DragonEater70]

DE reminds me a lot of how I used to play scum back in like 2021-ish

It feels like he's spending the whole game flailing around and trying to get townread, if that makes sense??

It makes sense to me, but right now at least, I think there are enough things that go beyond what would be necessary for Dragon as scum to look town (e.g. the extent of paranoia about me +/- Klick, the efforts to derail a coalition that would have been perfectly fine for him as scum).

I think Kyouko is the most likely scum in the 5, because there was clear effort to change the status quo and I don't think her approach to the post-coalition phase so far is particularly town, nor does it feel like a natural continuation of her coalition phase opinions/play.

I kinda agree

I'll be miffed if my page 6 coalition was right and we only failed because I was given too much power and was too paranoid.

[Appearance]

tbh i have opposing views with kyuoko on gob and t3 on dragon.
in that, gob did genuinely feel like he had no idea what was going on and scum might've checked with their buddies first.
and for dragon, he seems to actually have a somewhat good grasp of the game. he changes his reads due to apprehension but i don't know if i'd call that flailing.

[ssbm_Kyouko]

tbh i have opposing views with kyuoko on gob and t3 on dragon.
in that, gob did genuinely feel like he had no idea what was going on and scum might've checked with their buddies first.
and for dragon, he seems to actually have a somewhat good grasp of the game. he changes his reads due to apprehension but i don't know if i'd call that flailing.

This is too trusting of gob's entrance

[ssbm_Kyouko]

idk, Appearance is who I was feeling the least confident in of my 5 prior to switching to Dragon's coalition. I kinda feel like his reads have been a little too easy. I wish DV were in instead of Klick tbh, would make this day a lot easier.

VOTE: Appearance

[DeasVail]

I wish DV were in instead of Klick tbh, would make this day a lot easier.

Does this give away that kyouko knew the coalition was going to fail anyway?

How does kyo know that the coalition still would have failed with me in it instead of Klick?

I know that klick is a consensus townread, but this still reveals a sort of thought process that I think comes from an informed perspective rather than uninformed

[ssbm_Kyouko]

I mean I want to lim you more than anyone on the coalition

[DragonEater70]

VOTE: Kyo

Voting app sucks.

[DragonEater70]

I wish DV were in instead of Klick tbh, would make this day a lot easier.

Does this give away that kyouko knew the coalition was going to fail anyway?

How does kyo know that the coalition still would have failed with me in it instead of Klick?

I know that klick is a consensus townread, but this still reveals a sort of thought process that I think comes from an informed perspective rather than uninformed

tbh I kinda wish I'd included Elements over Klick so that if it'd failed I could at least rule out you being paired with Klick, Klick being paired with implo, etc.

Anyway hopefully Kyo flips scum and I can rule these out anyway.

[gob]

I kinda wanna town read gob for his really awful reads but the thing is he has awful reads as both alignments so I dunno

This guy clearly wolfing. Look at this fence sit

You also said I was clearly wolfing in Mini 2317 and I was town

So with respect, your opinion on me sucks.

Thank you for telling me im on the right path.

[gob]

To my knowledge, town wins if we form a 5 pizza kids coaltion (who are all town) on Day 1.

Correct me if I am wrong.

we already formed a coalition
that happened during the coalition phase.

Okay i see. I think we eliminate outside of teh coalition then.

as in ur proposed coalition?
the one that ended up being voted on failed so scum has to be in it.

sorry if i'm coming off as rude tho.

No its all good, clearly I was misinformed and I apologize.

Kyouko does seem hesitant which is usually how she is as scum.

that's good then.

Well im out if the coalition and Im town. I think there are 3 people besides me out of coaltion.

I do think its posible for both wolves to be in the coalition though. Just given how bad/wolfy the 5 chosen were

I guess im fine voting in the coalition.

[gob]

I say we lim Dragon here. It will clear Kyouko too if Dragon is mafia given the vote here. And kyoko is in the coalition so its decreasing that PoE by 2 if things go well.

Im going to follow my gut on this and i think everyone should at least consider Dragon as wolf. I feel like theyre overly cautious and fence sitty like their usual wolf games.

[implosion]

I'm going to try not to belabor the alt outing; I think it's sort of silly to complain about because effectively Dragon has been playing this game with a meta advantage of knowing that I've been talking about him the entire time without knowing it, which is irksome. It definitely does color some things. On the one hand, the fact that I compared this to Dragon's town game without knowing that it was Dragon's town game is perhaps a good sign that this is Dragon's town game.

On the other hand, it makes me revisit the caution I had early about how he was playing toward me. I feel my play this game is

markedly

different from my play in that other coalition game. I feel like there's no reason Dragon should be tunneling me as town when he has that game to compare this one to. I could imagine him being unsure but the, imo, thinly veiled dismissiveness with which he's approached me all game, even now after the coalition has failed, is angering. I don't really understand why there are multiple slots calling him scummy. gob is ostensibly calling things scummy with no reason and I don't agree those things ares scummy, and T3 popping in for that one sentence is meaningless to me without any context. I have a hard time divorcing the annoyance and anger against Dragon still saying that he's assuming I'm scum after the coalition I've said was going to fail all game (in fact, something that took that coalition and then

removed my top townread from it

) from his alignment. It's infuriating and I've been trying to ignore it but in light of this new info I'm really just pissed off.

[gob]

How am i calling things scummy for no reason? My read is that Dragon is acting similar to his scum meta and Ive explained why.

Why the discredit? If dragon isnt mafia then yea im lookin in the wrong place but
1. i dont think i am
2. even if i am, dragon should be the one to reapond, not you. Especially because your whole read on my Dragon read is wrong.

That big post feels like a discredit and trying to bury me with a mountain of words. When the crux of the post is really weak (imo)

[Appearance]

should i be worried that kyouko's reasoning actually makes sense?

[Appearance]

tho the part on dv is weird.
as we wouldn't have known if the other coalition would've passed or not.

[Appearance]

I'm going to try not to belabor the alt outing; I think it's sort of silly to complain about because effectively Dragon has been playing this game with a meta advantage of knowing that I've been talking about him the entire time without knowing it, which is irksome. It definitely does color some things. On the one hand, the fact that I compared this to Dragon's town game without knowing that it was Dragon's town game is perhaps a good sign that this is Dragon's town game.

On the other hand, it makes me revisit the caution I had early about how he was playing toward me. I feel my play this game is

markedly

different from my play in that other coalition game. I feel like there's no reason Dragon should be tunneling me as town when he has that game to compare this one to. I could imagine him being unsure but the, imo, thinly veiled dismissiveness with which he's approached me all game, even now after the coalition has failed, is angering. I don't really understand why there are multiple slots calling him scummy. gob is ostensibly calling things scummy with no reason and I don't agree those things ares scummy, and T3 popping in for that one sentence is meaningless to me without any context. I have a hard time divorcing the annoyance and anger against Dragon still saying that he's assuming I'm scum after the coalition I've said was going to fail all game (in fact, something that took that coalition and then

removed my top townread from it

) from his alignment. It's infuriating and I've been trying to ignore it but in light of this new info I'm really just pissed off.

so u are mad that you didn't know dragon knew your meta and ignored it?
but u still think he's town.
just checking to make sure i'm not misinterpreting.
tho, do u think ignoring meta is nai or would u say that doing so could be deliberate?