Open 902: Frienemies Blitz | Postgame

[Alianna]

VC 1.07

Votecount 1.07

Naerys (3):

usesPython, Black, light_ganski

usesPython (3):

Dannflor, gob, Naerys

Dannflor (2):

Cook, Ranger

T-Bone (2):

Save the Dragons, Ausuka

Save The Dragons (1):

Doctor Drew

Not Voting (2):

T-Bone, davesaz

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-01-29 17:40:53).

Mod notes:

• I will have ALL THE VCs!!!!!!!!!!!!
  
• Combined mod ISO

[Doctor Drew]

Tbh I think ranger/light/python is 3 town right now

Elaborate

Elaborate on why not.

Ftr, I do town read python.....but no real read so far on the other two.

So the more info the better

Any other reads, keeping in mind shorter deadlines?
What's your threshold?

I think I underestimated the effects of the time constraints here, gun to my head you, python, Ranger are town......Nae and std for scum

So the more info the better

15 pages in... got any thoughts so far besides that?

Should I grab food on the way home or cook something is my main thought right now.

Game related, see above

Tbh I think ranger/light/python is 3 town right now

Elaborate

Elaborate on why not.

Ftr, I do town read python.....but no real read so far on the other two.

So the more info the better

This post might be just too wacky to come from scum

That post is a 0 on the Drewmometer, where's the wack

Ya seriously, figured std would know I am capable of way more wackiness as scum

[Doctor Drew]

So the more info the better

15 pages in... got any thoughts so far besides that?

Also, didn't really sink in until I read this again after I posted

But, what thoughts exactly did I give?

This seems a bit like posting to post.

(Is that a little better python?)

[Ausuka]

Tbh I think ranger/light/python is 3 town right now

Elaborate

I wasn't exactly expecting that to convince anyone, which is also why I haven't been that vocal about who I'm townreading but I thought it was kinda funny that two people thought 3 of my townreads was the exact scumteam

My townreads atp are mostly based on vibes

I guess if I have to be more specific, Ranger's black/dann theory feels like town creativity, light and python feel genuine/less cautious than I generally expect scum to be

[light_ganski]

But, what thoughts exactly did I give?

This seems a bit like posting to post.

Townread on python

[Doctor Drew]

But, what thoughts exactly did I give?

This seems a bit like posting to post.

Townread on python

Ok fair enough, I meant the post more for gob to explain things and giving my town read on python was an aside lol

[gob]

im thinking we lim python

[light_ganski]

(Would now put Doctor Drew as null on my list btw)

[Ranger]

*checks to see if maftigers is still a thing*

As an avid user, I regret to inform you, alas, it does not. ;_;

[Ranger]

I think more people should vote usesPython.
Ranger especially

Sorry, I'd normally ask for your perspective to consider; I'm disinclined to vote my masonbuddy.

[Doctor Drew]

im thinking we lim python

Would definitely go you over Python

[Ranger]

Tbh I think ranger/light/python is 3 town right now

I agree, and you make #4 for my towncore.

I have Naerys for five.

[Ranger]

Elaborate on why not. Ftr, I do town read python.....but no real read so far on the other two. So the more info the better

This post might be just too wacky to come from scum

I agree, tentatively. I think a scum-Drew would be more inclined to effort, not lurk.

[Ranger]

{UsesPython, Naerys}
{Ausuka}
{light_ganski}
{Doctor Drew, Save the Dragons}
{T-Bone}
{davesaz}
{Cook}
{gob}
{Black, Dannflor}

[usesPython]

im thinking we lim python

Would definitely go you over Python

Wow same here we'd also lim gob over ourselves

[Doctor Drew]

Elaborate on why not. Ftr, I do town read python.....but no real read so far on the other two. So the more info the better

This post might be just too wacky to come from scum

I agree, tentatively. I think a scum-Drew would be more inclined to effort, not lurk.

Tbf I am not trying to lurk, just find that this time of the day is when I can mafia the most.

[Doctor Drew]

im thinking we lim python

Would definitely go you over Python

Wow same here we'd also lim gob over ourselves

Hi5

What if you are jester though?

[light_ganski]

im thinking we lim python

Would definitely go you over Python

Wow same here we'd also lim gob over ourselves

If python is mason well that makes three

Also very jittery about how my three least townie reads barring python up to this point are all voting python

[usesPython]

im thinking we lim python

Would definitely go you over Python

Wow same here we'd also lim gob over ourselves

Hi5

What if you are jester though?

This setup would be improved by adding a jesterizer

[light_ganski]

If python is mason well that makes three

Also very jittery about how my three least townie reads barring python up to this point are all voting python

/are the only three votes on python, rather

[Ranger]

I'd like to see this illustrated though

There’s less than 11 pages, of which the three players in question combined make up less than 3 pages. Since not every post they make relates to each other, it’s even easier to narrow down.

I’m mobile rn, try a triple iso of the players and see if you can see what I did. When not mobile, I can save you the work, yet all I’ll be doing is linking the posts in question. You already have my analysis of them; there’s nothing extra to give.

I'm a visual learner. I can wait.

Triple-iso.
8, (if Cook instead of gob, 12+13,) 17, 19, 21, 26(dropped the Dann wolf read), 39(Dann focuses on usesPython without returning to gob), 95/96/97/98 which drops without resolution, 106, 123, 132, willingness to compromise elsewhere, 148(without explanation or attempt to get Black to see gob town as if it's not needed), 156, 166, 179, 182 then instead of pursuing it going for 185, 204.

That's what caught my eye. As a reminder of what to look for;

The interactions between Dannflor, Black, and gob scream distancing with intentions to fake organic interactions, yet falling flat. Given Black and Dannflor are both deepwolf players, if they decide distancing isn’t enough, gob's the most expendable.

It’s still possible gob's just town being used, but Dannflor and Black are locks for scum.

[Ranger]

{UsesPython, Naerys}
{Ausuka}
{light_ganski}
{Doctor Drew, Save the Dragons}
{T-Bone}
{davesaz}
{Cook}
{gob}
{Black, Dannflor}

Normally, I'm reactive/lazy, and don't provide reasons unless engaged.

Given blitz deadlines though, I need to post as close to bedtime now to avoid a prod by the time I wake up tomorrow. Since I've no new content, a brief rundown.

I understand the suspicion on UsesPython and Naerys but

don't want my masonbuddies voted

I see their perspectives as town, despite understanding why they're seen as suspect. These reads are where I'll likely need to explain most going forward; for now, this'll suffice.
Ausuka's presence has been strongly indicative of a solvey mindset I believe demonstrates she's town.

light_ganski is good vibes, as well as not seeing who would be scum with light.
Doctor Drew feels like he's not scum trying, and I don't think he's scum lurking.
Save the Dragons' fluffposting is traditionally +town, and I believe his reads are genuine despite their opposition to mine. I can trace his thought process, I simply disagree.
T-Bone's direction, I can follow, despite similarly disagreeing with his thoughts.

davesaz is nulltown. He's got no real reason to be town beyond weak gut of not seeing scum.
Cook is nullscum. I already have a solve, yet Cook fits as a possible alternative for gob and has nothing to provide a better read.


gob, Black, Dannflor, refer to 395.

[usesPython]

ok enough distancing

VOTE: dann

[Dannflor]

Probably the most important thing to bring up, given it's the point you seem to feel most strongly about, is that I think the 'shrug' thing while feeling defensive is something I personally do all the time and does not come across to me as trying to come across as Not Defensive in a scummy way.

So, I understand why you believe that and I know you do that specific tic as both alignments. I do think your defensiveness presents itself differently as each alignment but that's neither here nor there.

But I want to clarify more on this specific point because I don't think I've done a very good job getting it across so far.

And

I think it is a tell that points towards scum a fairly large percentage of the time - definitely more than anything else I've seen happen in this game so far.

Another way to frame what I'm seeing is "scum caught for the wrong reasons." Basically, the person being accused is guilty, but they don't think that what they are accused of has

anything

to do with their guilt. So they push back in a way that's basically like... proving their accuser wrong? It's like, rather than trying to understand where the accuser is coming from, or sort the accuser based off the accusation, they approach the interaction like its something they can win - because they know they can win it since the accuser is definitely wrong! Town tends to approach these interactions differently, whereas even if they get defensive, they are either still trying to place themselves in another person's shoes and/or sort the person going after them.

feels like they want to be seen like they are doing something

Bold of you to assume we play with intentionality

Python first replies with this. Which like, definitely fits the model of trying to disprove the argument being made against them. usesPython can't be wanting to be seen like they are doing something because they don't play with intentionality! Haha! Dannflor is wrong!

I respond by saying that I don't think it necessarily has to be intentional in 73.

We just upped the gain on our vibemometer and posted the first thing that came up, if you wanna call that "wanting to be seen like we're doing something" then :shrug:

Now Python replies with this. They reiterate that they were just vibing and posting in a stream of consciousness style - ergo, my argument has no basis. Again, not really what I was arguing. But anyway, this is two points in the interaction where Python is clearly approaching it trying to

win

the interaction. From personal experience, I have seen many many scum players respond to accusations thrown against them with the same tone of "well, that's not true and here's why and you're wrong," because that is a very comfortable way to score points. And when a townie makes an argument with a perceived factual fault, that is something scum sees as something that can be "won" against.

I understand some people can be defensive as town too. I understand that Python might even want to take issue with my base accusation even as town. But the reason I find this interaction so scummy is because at no point is Python looking to do anything other than win the interaction. After 71, when I clarify that my argument is not about intentionality, Python basically just doubles down, which doesn't make it seem like Python earnestly wants to engage or sort me. After this point, Python never really talks to me or has much to say about me at all except for when I call him out for not talking to me! They slot me as a scum read or scum lean or whatever Python wants to call it and leaves it at that. And I am doubtful that is a town reaction.

One of the reasons this pinged me so strongly - aside from the sheer amount of times I've seen this exact same tell before - is that Python literally made the same post in a recent scum game almost to the word.

Having zero clue who your vote is on sounds wild and I don't really believe that. I don't think python is that blase when it comes to the game

I mean we literally have a notes PT for exactly this kind of stuff, if I dropped the vote myself I'd probably remember it here but I didn't so :shrug:

Here is Python in Mini Normal 2316 | Halloween. Python was scum.

Black is accusing Python of being unbelievably blase for not knowing where their vote is. Python responds with a pretty similar post as the one they responded to me with. Python knows that they

actually

didn't remember the vote and they even have the fact of their usual Notes PT to back it up. The shrug is even there again which I KNOW is not alignment indicative by itself but I do think generally townies are more likely to get straight up indignant about accusations like this rather than try to make themselves seem unbothered. This may not apply to Ausuka.

For reference, I went to a recent town game of Python's and quoted the posts where they directly responded to someone voicing suspicion on Python:

Spoiler: Python Town Game

I know I know I read the newbie game play thingy, and RVS is a thing... buuuuuut Python was very bandwagony following votes, not just against me but others as well.

Yeah that's intentional, we don't actually care who gets wagoned this early on so we just jump on whatever wagons are happening to make number go up and let the people with actual opinions duke it out until we have something to work with

I feel like python is playing a

good

game. solid stances, some thread control, relaxed and witty. A good game, but considering how what happened to timmer is what happened with every other LHF probable townie in the game (afrayed knott seems legitimate, so does kitty, for instance), then that means the scum, at least one of them, is doing exactly what python is doing. there are no scummy people left, so we have to look at who looks towny but doesnt

feel

very towny at all.

We feel town as fuck, what planet did you just fall out of

-A

Small sample size blah blah - but hopefully the difference is obvious and illustrative of what I'm talking about

[Dannflor]

VOTE: usesPython