Open 902: Frienemies Blitz | Postgame

[gob]

hm

[Dannflor]

VOTE: usesPython

idk im lost but out of the viable wagons i guess i'd prefer to go back to this most

[gob]

I think a Python lim or Ausuka slot lim cuts the game into the smallest bites. Then T-bone cuts the game like 25%.

Upon re-reading i feel like davesaz, Naerys, Drew, Black and Dannflor are the towniest.

Davesaz in particular, depending on how things flip i could be wrong ofc, but i sorta went through his option-select and feel like he made towny moves. I wouldn't say he's my strongest read TR, but just kinda interesting.

[usesPython]

VOTE: usesPython

idk im lost but out of the viable wagons i guess i'd prefer to go back to this most

Who'd you lim if you had flash wagon part 2?

[gob]

VOTE: usesPython

idk im lost but out of the viable wagons i guess i'd prefer to go back to this most

Who'd you lim if you had flash wagon part 2?

Seems like he wants to lim you

[usesPython]

VOTE: usesPython

idk im lost but out of the viable wagons i guess i'd prefer to go back to this most

Who'd you lim if you had flash wagon part 2?

Seems like he wants to lim you

That's out of the viable gob/python/tbone wagons, not out of every wagon

[usesPython]

I think a Python lim or Ausuka slot lim cuts the game into the smallest bites. Then T-bone cuts the game like 25%.

what did you mean by this

[gob]

I think a Python lim or Ausuka slot lim cuts the game into the smallest bites. Then T-bone cuts the game like 25%.

what did you mean by this

Basically im (loosely because i just do it once and remember the result i dont remember the exact process... cause im lazy) going through the game and comparing possible teams. Python lim, or Ausukla slot lim basically 50/50 solves the game. Since 50% of the possible teams are eliminated.

Probably not worth mentioning in retrospect. but yea, i feel like python/asuka are the highest 2 hit wolf.

[usesPython]

I think a Python lim or Ausuka slot lim cuts the game into the smallest bites. Then T-bone cuts the game like 25%.

what did you mean by this

Basically im (loosely because i just do it once and remember the result i dont remember the exact process... cause im lazy) going through the game and comparing possible teams. Python lim, or Ausukla slot lim basically 50/50 solves the game. Since 50% of the possible teams are eliminated.

Probably not worth mentioning in retrospect. but yea, i feel like python/asuka are the highest 2 hit wolf.

We're townreading both of those slots so what happens to your solve with the two of us flipping town?

[davesaz]

If any of my "not today" list is wrong, it's Ausuka. Didn't look as town on my re-read as I thought the first time through.

[davesaz]

Drew's vote for gob felt pretty opportunistic. His iso shades gob a fair amount so it could be legit, but I'm not a big fan of the vote post itself or the posting about it after.

[davesaz]

Someone was scolding the thread about going after LHF like Cook. While I agree in the general case that flipping low impact posters gives little info if they're town, it's also well-known that a decent percentage of low impact flip scum. If there were more time I'd really want to wagon Cook to see what falls out of that, but I doubt that has enough legs.

[usesPython]

We wouldn't say no to a cook wagon

[light_ganski]

VC 1.12

Votecount 1.12

T-Bone (5):

Save the Dragons, Ausuka, davesaz, usesPython, Dannflor

gob (4):

light_ganski, Doctor Drew, Black, Ranger

usesPython (3):

gob, Naerys, Cook

Ausuka (1):

T-Bone

currently +t-bone on davesaz and dannflor on python

I really don't get the t-bone push, but without dannflor I don't see the scum on it

But the python wagon looks even worse than it did earlier

Also very jittery about how my three least townie reads barring python up to this point are all voting python

[light_ganski]

{gob, naerys, cook, dannflor}

Considering I think davesaz has been okay on the last few pages thats my worst four reads

and thats the extent of the python wagon

[Ranger]

stop responding to me.

Not an attitude I'd expect you to take.

My reads are fluid, and highly open to change. You've seen firsthand how they switch rapidly. You very easily could engage with me and get the dialog going. Though an interaction with my points against you may not sway me, an interaction about viewpoints usually will. My viewpoint is your viewpoint isn't what it should be. You're demonstrating a lack of critical thought in areas you should be more critically thinking in. I believe that suspect, to be sure, yet I've engaged with full acknowledgement I may be wrong.

[Ranger]

i think drew/light_ganski are scum together

And given your vote, that'd make a scumteam of {T-Bone, Doctor Drew, light_ganski}.

I quite literally said I saw potential warning signs of light_ganski deepwolfing; you easily can engage me there and explain why you think this is a coherent solve.

[light_ganski]

{ranger, save the dragons, ausuka, usespython}
{t-bone, black}
{doctor drew, davesaz}
{dannflor}
{naerys, cook}
{gob}

[Ranger]

t-bone is very clearly trying to look like he cares about finding scum and focusing on the elimination
see: his posts about python and his posts about ausuka
however for a variety of reasons i see these movements as fake

Then why did you not just say you see them as fake?

I'm sorry I don't believe it.

In 594, you state

i think even similarly fluffy posters in this game like STD (who im pretty sure is town) have very clearly been working towards trying to find the best elimination

If T-Bone is trying to look like he cares, then he would still be working towards trying to find the elimination.

You can't have it both ways.
T-Bone can't be not trying to work towards getting the best elimination,
While also faking trying to work towards the best elimination.

It's either one or the other.

I believe your "T-Bone isn't trying" take was disingenuous because you know better. I believe you are attempting a backtrack on a valid callout rather than admitting you weren't approaching as you ought to have and now you are making things up. I believe this is a trait more likely to come from scum.

[Ranger]

Ranger how strong is your scumread on me and outside of associations with Dannflor/gob what is it based off of

My scale is fairly similar to usesPython's; you're -30, Dannflor's -40, gob's -10, Cook's -5, etc.

Outside associations, it's strong gut off of feeling you're positioning yourself rather than genuinely solving.

[light_ganski]

VOTE: usesPython

idk im lost but out of the viable wagons i guess i'd prefer to go back to this most

Actually following on from ranger here

Dannflor can u explain your progression on t-bone from ranger's point in 668 to your python vote?

[light_ganski]

nvm might be paranoia I re-ISO'd dannflor and it makes sense

[light_ganski]

I need to go to bed but I'll try and check in to the thread on the way to work tmrw

Still think gob is the best push, still really don't like the python wagon

[Ranger]

just because you operate on a certain level with how you develop your reads does not mean that is how i operate

I'm not judging you off how I operate.

I'm judging you off how you operate; I'm finding the Dannflor of this game to not be giving the level of depth in thought and analysis I'd expect if you were town. To be sure there's some earlier analysis with the illusion of depth, yet the entire time it has felt you are not operating with the breadth or depth you ought to be. When you've swapped directions it has looked to me like calculated decisions made with the intention of avoiding being too tunneled and faking a town revelation, rather than genuinely doing a deep reevaluation and fundamentally reassessing the reads in question.

Whenever you have given your reads, they have felt as if they are not giving as much attention to detail and perspective as they should. You are known for trying to get other players to view other players by the perspective of other players (rather than arbitrary calls ignoring the diversity of perspectives), and here it feels like you are falling short of your own signature approach.

The way you have fallen short feels specifically because you are not actually trying and simply giving the illusion of trying.

[Ranger]

consider that you do not have the toolset to successfully eliminate me *even* if i were scum here and you are doing more damage to the game by interacting with me this way as town than you would be doing good to the gamestate by interacting with my in this way if i were scum

I am interacting with you this way specifically because I am aware I could be wrong about you being scum.

If you are town you are not showing your usual level of thoroughness in your analysis. I rightly called you out on what I saw as a lack of attention to detail on your T-Bone read. And when I called you out, you changed the story in a contradictory way. If you are town,

you

are not being honest with yourself, because if you are town then you should be able to see why I would have valid reasons to see you as falling short of your normal town self. You should see I have a point, and am approaching from the perspective of understanding players, a skillset you normally thrive on.

You have displayed a rather surface level of analysis on other players. The normal level of Dannflor depth, as well as the normal level of Dannflor outreach to other players to try and get them on the same page, is absent. Yet instead of acknowledging it and reconsidering, you are deflecting from it. That is behavior I feel calculated and strategic, coming from a scum perspective; I know it could be wrong and could be caused by any number of other factors. I've yet to see those other factors. I feel a town-Dannflor should be able to recognize I am critiquing the Dannflor I am seeing as not being up to the level of a normal town-Dannflor, then either work to fix it or explain why you can't. The approach of deflection feels unnatural.