Open 897 - Cop 17er [DAY 6]

[davesaz]

Tell me specifically why you won't do Bella or Bingle.

[Bingle]

Tell me specifically why you won't do Bella or Bingle.

As far as I've seen you've given an actual reason to do neither, so...

[Bingle]

Alright, so I'm pretty happy with a yes lim actually happening at this point, despite the original vote being a PoE poking of the bee's nest . I don't think Dave scum tries to go toe to toe with me here, especially on this shaky of a basis: there's no payoff.

Yes's responses to Drew have all been reasonable, but they also seem to be treating Drew like he's wrong, not like he's being manipulative. I get a vibe of "Gotcha!" in a way that feels like yes is more concerned with making himself look good than the actual content of the argument.

I have an 100% accuracy reading the Doctor Drew baby

Ain't nothing you can do 'bout it

Remember when you said that and I was town

Remember when I didn't call you scum in the end

For example, this doesn't look like yes trying to decide whether Drew is actually scum or not. It's a "I was technically correct" completely sidestepping the original BoP supposition that yes should be able to try to suss out Drew's actual alignment here and doesn't seem to be trying to do that. I frankly don't give a shit about the BoP read, but the reaction to it makes me think scum. I haven't really given this game much thought the last few days, but I'm going to try to do a reads wall shortly with impressions of all slots, so hopefully we can get some real interaction going.

[Bingle]

Firebringer - I talked about the Naerys interaction, but I really do think Fire is just solid town here. I will be shocked if the NK isn't one of the two of us.
davesaz- The VCA seems halfassed and lacking context and I never did get a boiling down of the why behind the conclusions as requested, but trying to shade me seems like a weird place to be as scum dave here. Dude has put actual effort into not wanting to vote in yes/Drew, which makes me think he could only possibly be paired with them (if he's scum he can just let that pair of eliminations happen and be happy, I think.)

Bellaphant - I remember really liking something about Bella, but I just reread her and she honestly feels pretty hollow. I still vaguely feel like she's willing to be eliminated, which is major townpoints for me (Not saying she is, but genuinely giving off an aura of being completely unafraid of the lim). There's a couple posts that are slightly worrisome (5319 particularly seems sheepy in a bad way.)
Doctor Drew - Probably town? He's approaching me in the normal buddying fashion, but it's not overbearing and I don't get the sense he's trying to leverage me to save his own ass, so I'm content to let him live solely on vibe check.
Theta Alpine - Looking back, Theta did this whole weird dance of trying to write off the naerys case as an activity issue, which is a pretty weirdly shaky ground to try to protect a buddy off of. Lemon was going down and thetascum had to know that and also that all of those interactions would look like absolute ass later.
Enchant - The sum total of enchant impression I have at the moment is "God I wish this game was over" but also he's been weirdly hammershy, which doesn't match any enchant interactions I've ever had.
usesPython - I thought town, but they've been really gung ho about this whole let's just all vote for our townreads and not worry about anything else, which is a good way to feed town apathy and then allow scum to 'shake things up' and win despite being in the PoE in a few days. I'm not a fan anymore.
yessiree - See above.


The bottom three are the only ones I don't find myself townreading to some extent, but I definitely prefer a yes lim atm.

[usesPython]

usesPython - I thought town, but they've been really gung ho about this whole let's just all vote for our townreads and not worry about anything else, which is a good way to feed town apathy and then allow scum to 'shake things up' and win despite being in the PoE in a few days. I'm not a fan anymore.

Lets all vote scum then literally do not care as long as we're killing people. Game should have ended like two weeks ago with how little is going on

[davesaz]

Dude has put actual effort into not wanting to vote in yes/Drew

I don't understand this part, IIRC I voted yes on multiple occasions. I don't think I've said I wouldn't vote Drew -- that's implied as part of not really TRing anyone. Not to mention I don't think Drew has been a wagon at all the whole game, though I must admit I have not attempted to figure out a max drew wagon point yet. I might just do that since you've made me curious by mentioning it.

The VCA seems halfassed and lacking context and I never did get a boiling down of the why behind the conclusions as requested

The VCA part of it is 100% of the why. Bad voting patterns -> scum. Finding those patterns is a heck of a lot of work, especially looking

between the mod's VC

which is what I'm doing here. Relying solely on the official vc's is why others' VCA doesn't work. I know it's uncomfortable that one of the conclusions is that you're scum.

[davesaz]

davesaz {'Firebringer': 2, 'unvote': 2, 'Titus': 2, 'Gamma Emerald': 1, 'RCEnigma': 2, 'furtiveglance': 1, 'Bellaphant': 1, 'yessiree': 3, 'usesPython': 1, 'Bingle': 1, 'Aristeia': 1}

This says I've voted yes 3 times, the most of anyone as of when the data was pulled. I need to rerun the extraction program to update it for today.
Nice try, but you're wrong on that part.

[Firebringer]

i kind of want to eliminate theta but i don't have energy to make a case

[Firebringer]

what even is the vote count

[Firebringer]

V OTECOUNT 5.1
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
yessiree (3)	Bingle, Doctor Drew, Theta Alpine
NOT VOTING: davesaz, Bellaphant, Enchant Firebringer, yessiree, usesPython
With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2024-02-06 05:47:54)
Notes:

can i get updated vc mod

VOTE: Theta Alpine

[Bingle]

Dude has put actual effort into not wanting to vote in yes/Drew

I don't understand this part, IIRC I voted yes on multiple occasions. I don't think I've said I wouldn't vote Drew -- that's implied as part of not really TRing anyone. Not to mention I don't think Drew has been a wagon at all the whole game, though I must admit I have not attempted to figure out a max drew wagon point yet. I might just do that since you've made me curious by mentioning it.

I'm not talking about voting history, I'm talking about where you want to be right now. There's a loud 1v1 between Drew and yes, where yes is admittedly the only one with any traction, but you're trying to make a new wagon against what is probably the second biggest consensus townread or his stated townread. I think that's town you and not scum you.

The VCA seems halfassed and lacking context and I never did get a boiling down of the why behind the conclusions as requested

The VCA part of it is 100% of the why. Bad voting patterns -> scum. Finding those patterns is a heck of a lot of work, especially looking

between the mod's VC

which is what I'm doing here. Relying solely on the official vc's is why others' VCA doesn't work. I know it's uncomfortable that one of the conclusions is that you're scum.

Two problems... You don't really quantify why they're bad. Like, part of the voting pattern analysis you're doing here is that a slot that was replaced multiple times doesn't often vote scum, when I replaced in and immediately solidified the lim on scum by voting scum when I could have attempted to derail.

'Aristeia': 3, 'Titus': 2, 'usesPython': 2, 'unvote': 3, 'lemon.tangerine': 2, 'yessiree':1

Your data set:

davesaz {'Firebringer': 2, 'unvote': 2, 'Titus': 2, 'Gamma Emerald': 1, 'RCEnigma': 2, 'furtiveglance': 1, 'Bellaphant': 1, 'yessiree': 3, 'usesPython': 1, 'Bingle': 1, 'Aristeia': 1}

My slot voted for confirmed town 3 times, confirmed scum 4 times. There are 10 total votes and 3 unvotes. You, by comparison, have voted 15 times with 2 unvotes. 2 confscum votes, 5 conftown votes.

And all of that is completely half assed and meaningless without an accompanying analysis of when you or the collective I voted, why, and the actual impact on the thread. VCA is a shit tool in the hands of most players not because they're not looking at the context of the votes, just the raw numbers of the votes.

Macro tools are almost always poor at interpreting small data sets without expert analysis. Just ask literally any economist.

[Bingle]

V OTECOUNT 5.1
E LIMINATION V OTES
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES
yessiree (3)	Bingle, Doctor Drew, Theta Alpine
Bellaphant (1)	davesaz
Theta Alpine (1)	Firebringer
NOT VOTING: Bellaphant, Enchant, yessiree, usesPython
With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to flip! Deadline: (expired on 2024-02-06 05:47:54)
Notes:

[Bingle]

Updated.

[yessiree]

Yes's responses to Drew have all been reasonable, but they also seem to be treating Drew like he's wrong, not like he's being manipulative. I get a vibe of "Gotcha!"

What do u mean by this

[davesaz]

I don't see any votes on Drew. How can it be a 1v1?

[Bingle]

I don't see any votes on Drew. How can it be a 1v1?

Drew incorrectly reading me can only mean one thing

everybody vote Drew so i can hammer this fool

Why do u keep flip flopping on me

The only people I have had solid town reads on(that are alive), are python and Fire

not asking why u dont hard tr me

im asking what specifically you're seeing from me that making ur evaluations fluctuating

Do we think both scum are deepwolf types or is there a liability on the team?

yeah you know what, im sticking to my guns on the town core i posted before

would rather not be super paranoid right now when the simple answer could be the correct one

me vs drew could just be TvT and a big waste of time

Do you not see the Drew/yes fight over the last few pages?

[Bingle]

Yes's responses to Drew have all been reasonable, but they also seem to be treating Drew like he's wrong, not like he's being manipulative. I get a vibe of "Gotcha!"

What do u mean by this

I mean I feel like you're trying to point out where Drew is wrong as a means of discrediting the read instead of actually approaching the read to see if it's real. I'm not sure how I can put that any more clearly.

[yessiree]

Yes's responses to Drew have all been reasonable, but they also seem to be treating Drew like he's wrong, not like he's being manipulative. I get a vibe of "Gotcha!"

What do u mean by this

I mean I feel like you're trying to point out where Drew is wrong as a means of discrediting the read instead of

actually approaching the read to see if it's real

. I'm not sure how I can put that any more clearly.

you literally just quoted one of my posts where i did just that

[yessiree]

Yes's responses to Drew have all been reasonable, but they also seem to be treating Drew like he's wrong,

not like he's being manipulative.

this part is bothering me too - 'manipulative", why should i treat Drew as being manipulative when he admitted himself he's just sheeping u, who's he manipulating?

[yessiree]

gonna be busy with work until Feb 2, semi-vla but i'll check this thread when i can

might as well do this now

VOTE: theta

[Bingle]

Yes's responses to Drew have all been reasonable, but they also seem to be treating Drew like he's wrong,

not like he's being manipulative.

this part is bothering me too - 'manipulative", why should i treat Drew as being manipulative when he admitted himself he's just sheeping u, who's he manipulating?

I feel like you're being deliberately obtuse here.

[Doctor Drew]

If yess is town and Bingle is scum I will quite the site*

*void in the US

[usesPython]

If yess is town and Bingle is scum I will quite the site*

*void in the US

[Doctor Drew]

If yess is town and Bingle is scum I will quite the site*

*void in the US

Jeez, at least when I post an image it is much smaller

[davesaz]

Do you not see the Drew/yes fight over the last few pages?

If yes didn't feel strongly enough about it to vote, no I didn't pay attention to it. "vote this clown and I'll hammer" isn't a way to get me to follow.
I'm voting one of my scumreads. There are something like 8 or 9 days? If I can't get one of my scumreads I'll certainly compromise. If someone approached me with some respect I might listen.