JOAT uPick | FIN!

[fferyllt]

VC 1.4

Ruins of the Rammassan Grainaries in Thebes: ground zero of the first known incident where workers stood up to the State and its enforcers for their right to fair wages.

At one point the powers that be sent the workers

pastries

, hoping that they'd just go home and stop making a fuss in the streets. Truly, there is nothing new under the sun. The next day the workers took over one of the gates to a major grainary in Thebes. They broke into one of the storage rooms, and the grainary's officials...that's right...called the police. The chief of police took a good look around and decided the officials should handle this on their own. Why did this work? Stay tuned for the next VC!

Bell (4):

Ircher, LadyTerminallyOffline, Maid Cafe, Titus

Joyboy (4):

Dunnstral, lemon.tangerine, Relativistic Harmony, Laplacian

Firebringer (2):

Sakura Hana, light_ganski

Relativistic Harmony (1):

Bell

Ircher (1):

Firebringer

LadyTerminallyOffline (1):

Joyboy

lemon.tangerine ():

Hu Tao

Hu Tao (1)

Holy Spirit Turtle

Not Voting (2):

Doctor Drew, PookyTheMagicalBear

With 17 alive it takes 9 votes to eliminate

Deadline: February 11, Midnight US Eastern Time

[Firebringer]

ours

don't u mean that one is for the union

[Hu Tao]

Hu tao, you can't posible not realize you're picking and choosing posts.
I mind melded right after Maid did by saying the same thing and had not read their posts at the time but it was ignored.
Likewise you ignored Pooky's read list that was also basically an activity read's list.

why are you approaching the game in a way that has these obvious discrepancies?

Wasn't pookys list the first I called out as fake?

[Bell]

...I already stated that I've been trying to interpret people's play around me. This is demonstrably what I've tried to do. Just because you pretend the posts don't exist doesn't mean it does. I made one about those that were defending me and casting aspersions and paranoia there way when I have no benefit to doubting people that are ostensibly taking my side.

and then I made a gun to head reads list, which you tried to shut down, which is typical for scum you.
This has been a song and dance we've done like 3 times.

[Bell]

Hu tao, you can't posible not realize you're picking and choosing posts.
I mind melded right after Maid did by saying the same thing and had not read their posts at the time but it was ignored.
Likewise you ignored Pooky's read list that was also basically an activity read's list.

why are you approaching the game in a way that has these obvious discrepancies?

Wasn't pookys list the first I called out as fake?

Huh. Well is it fake? What's the difference between a fake reads wall meant to pressure people you don't have a read on and a fake reads wall that is antispew or scummy. Day one, it's pretty common.

[Hu Tao]

Okay. I'm officially caught up. And my disappointment that no one is voting lemon is immeasurable. If I had gotten the day vig I wanted I would have shot it already.

[Firebringer]

counter point im townreading lemon

[Hu Tao]

Hu tao, you can't posible not realize you're picking and choosing posts.
I mind melded right after Maid did by saying the same thing and had not read their posts at the time but it was ignored.
Likewise you ignored Pooky's read list that was also basically an activity read's list.

why are you approaching the game in a way that has these obvious discrepancies?

Wasn't pookys list the first I called out as fake?

Huh. Well is it fake? What's the difference between a fake reads wall meant to pressure people you don't have a read on and a fake reads wall that is antispew or scummy. Day one, it's pretty common.

In my experience scum usually feels the need to out a more structured reads list like that early which is why I was sus on it at first. I don't really dislike any of pooky's posts since. Though I'll admit I've been focused on you and lemon

[Hu Tao]

counter point im townreading lemon

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

as long as i get scum points for calling out that this is town bella prior to his flip

your application for scum points has been denied

[Bell]

I don't think I see what you see at all Hu Tao. Our perspectives are very different. You could be scum I guess.
Or you could just be seeing the game from a different perspective. I think Lemon is town. I could be wrong.

* think I'm just going to have to make a promise with myself to stop posting for the night after responding to ETO* I would be being a whole lot more effectual if I stopped nd just reread the game and posted more. But I still, don't think you're paying attention if you think I haven't been responding or reading people.

*tunnel vision*

[Titus]

Lto, I feel that Bell's response to my position on limming him matches exactly what you're saying and it was frustrating!

[Hu Tao]

Bell - sus
Joyboy - I don't hate at the moment. He did the same thing as town last game.
Dunnstral - who?
Maid Cafe - mindmelted could be town
HolySpiritTurtle- who?
Laplacian - very similar to the town lap I saw for 2 games, role-playing aside
greedant - who?
PookyTheMagicalBear - don't hate any of their posts
Firebringer - prob town seems more natural than his scum game
Sakura Hana - could be scum, when she was scum she was similar to this
LadyTerminallyOffline - mind melted could be town
Relativistic Harmony - who?
light_ganski -who?
lemon.tangerine - scum
Titus - I think she gets more obvious as the day goes on.
Ircher - I was scum with him before and it's similar so far but not a reliable read. Leaning null

[Hu Tao]

I don't think I see what you see at all Hu Tao. Our perspectives are very different. You could be scum I guess.
Or you could just be seeing the game from a different perspective. I think Lemon is town. I could be wrong.

* think I'm just going to have to make a promise with myself to stop posting for the night after responding to ETO* I would be being a whole lot more effectual if I stopped nd just reread the game and posted more. But I still, don't think you're paying attention if you think I haven't been responding or reading people.

*tunnel vision*

I don't think I said you haven't been responding or reading people?

[Bell]

1. 4 scum. it doesn't really matter for the purposes of hunting at this point how many scum there are as long as there is more than 1.
2. I think this was stated in the set up. But i don't really recall it, I didn't read it closely. It's probably safe to assume so. I dislike multiball because it's impossible for some players to be differentiated, or rather it can get really difficult.
3. I dunno. i'm not sure how this helps to keep it mind right now.
4. Dunno.
5. Don't care.
6. Elaborate? I don't get it.
7. This isn't an assumption. It's explicitely stated what our win condition is and it's to kill all the mafia.
8. This isn't correct. The point is to reach majority. Staying alive helps with that but not always. This is common sense.

9. Pooky says I don't get frustrated as scum and I feel all guilty. He's not wrong but basically, he completely ignored his own writing about that when I started fitting that frame because it was probably inconvenient. Or they just don't change their mind good.

10. An opinion. One that with careful reading doesn't make sense. I have pushed against people that have scum read me and tried to point out the flaws and tried to figure out if these flaws were because they're scum or because they're flawed. Failing to reach a conclusion is normal for me.

11. I have a feeling I'm going to fail to understand what you're getting at with these, given, well. The first claim I did specifically because I wanted to be constructive and work toward the town win con by working with and communicating my abilities to other people. And the second was to correct a misconception in the perspective of Pooky about what I was getting at. I don't deny it was dumb to claim my second role, but it doesn't really do any harm either. Well unless you think a tree stump is something scum would do. I really want to emphasize what you think or say is convenient, isn't convenient, because it fails the ockham's razor test. It is not a simple explanation for a post, it's a more complicated one that requires more cogs. This sort of complexity has made it so few doubt that I'm a tree stump because it's verifiable. *both* of the abilities I've claimed are verifiable. Which itself is rare and unusual.
12. Titus's argument was that it was better that I would die because of it. Likewise, using logical fallacies or misinterpreting someone is not scummy. It's just what it says on the tin, it's a fallacy.
13. Is it discrediting someone to point out that a scum slip wasn't a scum slip and that I've been, in the past accused of making scum slips when I was town and this is another example of that? Is it discrediting someone to say that if something is close to a 1:1 ratio of town to scum it doesn't make sense why you're scum reading me? Is it discrediting someone to ask why claiming out the gate is scummy, have another player come in and then supplement why it wasn't scummy get the player that thought it was scummy to agree and then watch as other players carry the water of an argument that the originator retracted as *being* scummy with no comment or acknowledgement that they did so? Is it scummy to laugh at someone for saying "That sure is convenient that you have that role to explain away that post you got called out on" when it's my actual role?
I don't think so!

14. This is normal, you're confusing me being annoying which you've already said you were tired with, with an alignment. I post a lot. When pressured *I respond a lot* and * i omgus a lot* and I navel gaze a lot. This is unusual, but it's not unusual *for me* As are contentless posts mixed with not so contentless posts. I get called out for saying nothing all the time. This isn't a secret.

15. yeah, I would pretty much never read those rules and come up with a fake claim. It's just my actual claim. Multiple players know I suck at fake claiming. Uh I think. If you'd like I could actually point out where I made a post about wanting to be a tree stump really badly I think almost 3-4 years ago. It's that far back. I really liked the idea of being untouchable and being free just to hunt the whole game without the responsibility of voting wrong. Please note that when pressured this is what I devolve into, so you can see the appeal for me.
But as people have mentioned, this doesn't matter. I asked for the role before I knew what I would role. The point is that my intent behind that post was a childish "heh, I can totally harass you if you fuck up and misread me Pooky" and that became I knew his alignment. Even though the perspective itself, is just making the assumption that he's town and doesn't make sense from the perspective of me being scum because, obviously I have no plans to harass Pooky for saying they suck if I were scum. The whole thing just kind of falls apart when viewed from 4 or 5 different angles. There are more incorrect angles than correct ones, and Pooky either chose the incorrect one because they're scum or because they thought what worked for enchant would work for someone who is very, very different from enchant.
16. The strawman argument does not work, because Titus does not and has not pretty much ever listened to me before. The argument that they would listen to me, is, in the context of our previous play history *laughable* They ignored me both times I said math blade was scum *and* ignored me once when I said Math blade was scum while I had a cop guilty on them and could throw perfectly accurate cases about them, I couldn't claim the cop guilty but my arguments that were correct, weren't persuasive to them. The bonuses they're talking about aren't bonuses. Their argument that they can read off my interactions with others and make accurate associations doesn't pan out because Titus and I have been over that their method doesn't seem to pass muster from random chance (I'm not saying, I'm better, I'm not I'm just saying Titus isn't an especially accurate scum hunter) It just doesn't appeal to me. And from my perspective it's a terrible call not only for those reasons but also because I'm town and they way they initially worded it was that even if I *was town* it was better that I'm a tree stump than not, while thinking I was scum. I'm going to object to that.
17. 247. Is an obvious joke and has nothing to do with your alignment. You can see why I think you're straight forward or faking being straight forward. Usually you're just town.
18. Reasoning is bad regardless of whether someone is scum or not. You can be perfectly wrong about someone's motivations and kill scum, and perfectly right about someone while bussing. Reasoning is separate. Pooky did point out that I was caught for the wrong reasons which is jumping off of you. But the thing is, there was in your initial post a glaring omission that pointed to you not seeming to know that people were JOATs, which was deeply confusing, because the alternative was that your argument was that it was convenient for me to claim a role as an excuse instead of other plays that make much more sense in context for scum to do. It's more lies to juggle when the truth will do. It's a weird assumption to make.
19. Yes, I don't think that me claiming my second role there showed any anti-town motivation and was not some get out of jail free card, at best it's deeply confusing, but you just interpreted it as scummy. Which I still don't get.

If an apple is by an apple tree, you don't say that sure is convenient, you say, "that makes sense"

Anyway. Done. You promised Bell.

Bye.

[Relativistic Harmony]

LTO's scumcase on Bell in 761 is airtight so the "upward trend" I was seeing was fake

don't really care about bell's ability to keep posting if bell has zero town mindset at all

VOTE: Bell

-TL

[Relativistic Harmony]

i attempted to skim 789 and that post really does show that Bell is scum

-TL

[Doctor Drew]

Bell - sus
Joyboy - I don't hate at the moment. He did the same thing as town last game.
Dunnstral - who?
Maid Cafe - mindmelted could be town
HolySpiritTurtle- who?
Laplacian - very similar to the town lap I saw for 2 games, role-playing aside
greedant - who?
PookyTheMagicalBear - don't hate any of their posts
Firebringer - prob town seems more natural than his scum game
Sakura Hana - could be scum, when she was scum she was similar to this
LadyTerminallyOffline - mind melted could be town
Relativistic Harmony - who?
light_ganski -who?
lemon.tangerine - scum
Titus - I think she gets more obvious as the day goes on.
Ircher - I was scum with him before and it's similar so far but not a reliable read. Leaning null

Well I will just fuck off I guess.....




(I repped in for Greedant)

[Relativistic Harmony]

hu tao's burst of posts feels like thoughtstreaming to me so I'll say hu tao is seemingly townie



I do want to see what hu tao thinks of doctor drew though

-TL

[Doctor Drew]

as long as i get scum points for calling out that this is town bella prior to his flip

I will sheep you for the same scum points.......

LTO's scumcase on Bell in 761 is airtight so the "upward trend" I was seeing was fake

don't really care about bell's ability to keep posting if bell has zero town mindset at all

VOTE: Bell

-TL

Why are you buying LTO so much for town, and what is so airtight about their case on Bell?

I do have a weird vibe about you here TL, you seem more safe then I remember.

[Bell]

*shrug* my third ability is a novice 1 shot alibi.
I investigate a player and find out every player that they didn't visit.
This gets more powerful with time.

My bus driver role also has a neighbor component. So I'm kind of like a weird double jail keeper that can talk to that player at night.
I was considering spite locking Pooky into it and then seeing if they could post 1000 pages and convince me they weren't scum over a night phase. But, really I was just going to carefully consider who I wanted to talk with over that time. since, I'm not actually vindictive, I just pretend I will be.

[Hu Tao]

Bell - sus
Joyboy - I don't hate at the moment. He did the same thing as town last game.
Dunnstral - who?
Maid Cafe - mindmelted could be town
HolySpiritTurtle- who?
Laplacian - very similar to the town lap I saw for 2 games, role-playing aside
greedant - who?
PookyTheMagicalBear - don't hate any of their posts
Firebringer - prob town seems more natural than his scum game
Sakura Hana - could be scum, when she was scum she was similar to this
LadyTerminallyOffline - mind melted could be town
Relativistic Harmony - who?
light_ganski -who?
lemon.tangerine - scum
Titus - I think she gets more obvious as the day goes on.
Ircher - I was scum with him before and it's similar so far but not a reliable read. Leaning null

Well I will just fuck off I guess.....




(I repped in for Greedant)

Well I still would have put who?

I didn't see much or any of your posts in my catchup

[Bell]

LTO's scumcase on Bell in 761 is airtight so the "upward trend" I was seeing was fake

don't really care about bell's ability to keep posting if bell has zero town mindset at all

VOTE: Bell

-TL

It's airtight?
How.

[LadyTerminallyOffline]

My bus driver role

This is also not something you claimed before...

[Hu Tao]

hu tao's burst of posts feels like thoughtstreaming to me so I'll say hu tao is seemingly townie



I do want to see what hu tao thinks of doctor drew though

-TL

I'd do this as scum or town. It's just how I catch up. What are your thoughts on ?