Kemusan - Game Over

[Gypyx]

lotta posts and some thoughts, i think i need to cool my head before being able to make sense but i kinda wanna scrutinize StD

Firebringer has truly run the gamut for me this game and is back to a pretty solid town read, mostly because of his interaction with LLD. I also felt his explanation for his ffery scum read without being asked feels like a townie who thinks he's right and trying to get people to see his perspective. I would expect scum!FB to lean more into his trolly, unhelpful nature as it takes a lot less effort to fake that, but his transition into really fighting to have ffery on everyone's radar was comforting to me.

Cabd's post accepting ffery's dance proposal is probably his towniest its and at this point I don't think scum!Cabd would so confidently vocalize his plan to leave before Intermission if he was just going to back out of it later.

SirCakez's posts were not great but I also think Cakez would try harder to seem town if he were scum? He definitely needs to contribute more substantially at the caliber in which is he is capable because a ffery scum read and a couple of maybe town reads aren't cutting it.

Catching up I was between inviting Gypyx and skitter to be my dance partner, but feel I could be more valuable at sorting Gypyx in a hood than I would skitter. Skitter is probably more capable of meeting my expectations as scum, and while I have only played one game with scum!Gypyx over two years ago, I have some level of confidence that I can sort her in a one on one setting (even though I hate neighborhoods).

Gypyx, may I have this dance?

I accept this dance spiffeh, or something idk i didn't read the setup

[Save The Dragons]

woof?

[Gypyx]

meow

[Save The Dragons]

gasp

the scrutiny

it's too much

i confess to everything

[skitter30]

Do scum ever try to form svs pairs in this setup?

[Gypyx]

Do scum ever try to form svs pairs in this setup?

unless it's deepscum i guess since like, it's not like there's so many nightkills for their prologed survival to get suspicious

[Save The Dragons]

skitter, would you like this dance?

fireisredsir, would you like this dance?

[fferyllt]

For repeat dancers: Historically, do some gents wait long to put out invitations? Is there anything generically AI about the pattern/quantity of invites? Do the gents who are ultimately left on the dance floor alone usually put effort in to pair?

[HolySpiritTurtle]

I have to say I’m pretty underwhelmed with my current solve of RCEnigma/SirCakez/Fireisredsir/someone else so I probably need to stop writing people off so early!

Might as well start over because the game’s never easy when I’m in it.

[Bell]

So I reviewed Fire's posts and I'm sad they won't be active over the weekend. I need more from them.

I'm thinking about HST a lot now. Sigh, i'm trying to do a deep dive, since if it's gif they love clever gambits like that. There's very few worlds where their approach there is going to result in me turning on a dime and trying to scum read them, and a lot of worlds where I'm going to react like FF is. I'm not sure if their response to my response is appropriate or not. They could have pushed more. But let it go instead, it depends strongly in how they feel about me omgusing.

There's a clear line of, oh no I just realized this thing about role pms and that's weird by Bell, I do not know how they will react, but as an ethical person with a town mind set, I MUST ask this question even if, alas, it pains me to do so and may result in my death.

Or

You know, they're just scum seeing something that they can drive into a town read, they immediately backed up when I said I forgot. if they had taken it uncharitably or decided to pretend to take it uncharitably for more information it would have blown up, though I think that may've been the more productive route as town. Even if it increased the risk of me omgusing.

I'm not sure if the 3 minute reaction time measurement is a good tool or if it was an excuse, I mean, I don't think anyone knows, but for the most part I see why they would use it because there's two points of paralysis for scum.
1. I have no idea what they're talking about and because I don't have a town role pm it takes me over 3 minutes to find that information.
2. I respond suspiciously. in a vague manner. frantically asking my pals in PT, but none of my pals are that responsive. In actuality I'd never do that because my expectation of them wouldn't be that way. That said, some scum teams use discord now. I dunno if Pooky would have to provide that information or not. Or I could just yolo and say, oh yeah, they did ask me that, because in their post there was a hint at the answer that I'd have gotten it in my role pm. I think the only difference would've been that i would've said, Oh I forgot and it would have seemed a bit more airy.

Problems with using the 3 minute things.
1. Discord. fast chat. Dunno not scum.
2. Yolo response/they gave too much context.
3. Could have correctly, maybe have gone to first page and seen the role pm, I haven't actually checked if that information would've been verified on page 1. in the text role pm, but I didn't need it because I'm town.

Anyway. I'm terminating my thought process here. Though I think how they approached this was clever, I don't think it absolutely only comes from town them. Their goal and my most likely response if they're scum is to town read them which furthers their win condition.

Of course this angle also helps their town win condition, because surviving as town is also a way to win as town and they could have caught scum Bell if scum Bell was a thing this game.

I think the outcomes aren't quite so lopsided, though I'm not sure what approach would have been less lopsided while still moving the game forward.

[HolySpiritTurtle]

Idk much about dance games but I’d like to think that scum would aim for people who aren’t volatile and leave the dance under a tiniest of pressure.

[Bell]

Idk much about dance games but I’d like to think that scum would aim for people who aren’t volatile and leave the dance under a tiniest of pressure.

Ah yes, Norwe or Gamma would be terrifying to dance with as scum.

[Bell]

Do scum ever try to form svs pairs in this setup?

I think one time, two scum got forced to pair together because they ran out of options. But I don't remember.
It's not very EV for them though. I don't think it's impossible to win with it, it's not even really that difficult as long as they're a power couple.

[Spiffeh]

@ffery I will go find your post to RCE from last night when I’m back at my computer

@LLD I think the pair I’d most lobby for would be Ydrasse/STD because I think that would be a town/town pair that may not draw a nightkill despite having the IC in it. I would say you/FB or ffery/Cabd but am pretty sure I would want both of those pairs removed before endgame due to paranoia.

[skitter30]

Uh we're getting to the point where i'm like: who should ydra be pairing with ...?

[skitter30]

skitter, would you like this dance?

fireisredsir, would you like this dance?

Maybe! I'm inclined to yes but also thinking abt it!

[Spiffeh]

I’m honestly also fine with Ydrasse pairing with someone like Enchant because if scum wants to shoot the IC it forces them to remove Enchant who I am finding difficult to read

[skitter30]

Uh we're getting to the point where i'm like: who should ydra be pairing with ...?

If i were scum i don't think i'd be killing her here unless all of the 'power pairs' had scum in it, which seems unlikely

@ydra who do you want to pair with?

I guess the two approaches i see are:
* pair her with the scummiest/most likely to be scum gent as then if they are indeed scum they'd have to kill one of their own to kill her (again not sure they'd be killing her here anyways)
* pair her with the person most likely to be town so that we don't need to kill off this pair

I'm probably inclined towards the latter given how much she's playing

Pedit in a vaccuum yeah but are they gonna be killing her here is my question

[skitter30]

Eh actually they might given that it would resolve like none of the main conflicts
Ig that's fine

[fferyllt]

Idk much about dance games but I’d like to think that scum would aim for people who aren’t volatile and leave the dance under a tiniest of pressure.

Do you see pairings that fit this?

[skitter30]

I’m honestly also fine with Ydrasse pairing with someone like Enchant because if scum wants to shoot the IC it forces them to remove Enchant who I am finding difficult to read

Ig my issue with this is that if enchant is scum i think scum just don't kill the pair and then leave it alive and if it later looks like we need to kill enchant it'll have to be with ydra

[skitter30]

Also if he's scum isnt he likely to just lolsuicide?

[Bell]

Skitter, please explain how lolsuiciding is a good move as scum.

We vote out pairs, not individuals right?

[Bell]

You could probably out a player as scum by daring them to lolsuicide because they can’t actually do that as scum without diminishing their win condition.

They can pretend they’d be willing to do so but if push came to shove they’d never do it unless they’re absolutely certain they’re going to die and stalling would provide town with more information/an advantage.

[skitter30]

Right
So i'm saying

If he's scum and paired with ydra
Don't we need ro vote out that pair to remove him if he's scum if they don't kill that pair?

Or am i missing something abt the setup

Pedit fair enuf