Kemusan - Game Over

[Gypyx]

Uh, in terms of not enough stuff to latch unto, I’m not sure what you latch to, but there are…posts that people have made.
A few of them.

sorry there's too many words i can only do stuff with pictures

and like, it's just that i'm honestly very emotion driven when playing the game

[Gypyx]

You think there’s decent odds I’m scum?

like 20something

[Bell]

I see.
The sircakez method.
If you ignore the forest, the traps, implements of death and trail of blood, was there ever really evidence of a murderer in the forest in the first place?

[Gypyx]

I see.
The sircakez method.
If you ignore the forest, the traps, implements of death and trail of blood, was there ever really evidence of a murderer in the forest in the first place?

no what i'm saying is that in the end scum acts in order for scum to win and town act in order for town to win, the rest is indicative but shouldn't completely overshadow your actions, which are the most concrete form of action

[Bell]

I see, and my actions surrounding the mysterious deaths of RCE and STD led you to believe that there’s decent odds I dun it.

[Bell]

I get it, it’s definitely scummy to rush things.
*stares at the pile of corpses*
Or at least it favors the scum win con.

*looks to the dead dog and Fire bird*
Some of the time.

[Gypyx]

I get it, it’s definitely scummy to rush things.
*stares at the pile of corpses*
Or at least it favors the scum win con.

*looks to the dead dog and Fire bird*
Some of the time.

people on this website are so funny

[Bell]

Let me walk you through this if you’re town, be patient with me please.

I was playing in a standard fashion and not taking any undue haste nor did I encourage others for undue haste.

Until, STD and RCE left and then I pushed for FB to kill themselves before LLD returned.

This benefits scum me because if LLD had come back they might have outted me as the last scum in their amateurish way.

[Bell]

You as a concerned town citizen advocated for LLD to come back first so that they could reveal all of their plots and secrets, gathering plenty of evidence to reveal the last scum.

[Gypyx]

Let me walk you through this if you’re town, be patient with me please.

I was playing in a standard fashion and not taking any undue haste nor did I encourage others for undue haste.

Until, STD and RCE left and then I pushed for FB to kill themselves before LLD returned.

This benefits scum me because if LLD had come back they might have outted me as the last scum in their amateurish way.

hmmmm

yeah ok i gotta admit it maybe doesn't make too much sense, my bad for the trash opinions

bussing is always a thing of course but like, whatever you can say that to everything

[Gypyx]

stop it i can't take the sass anymore

[Spiffeh]

I have completed HST's ISO from the pairing phase. I was gonna provide commentary throughout my HST ISO journey but there really wasn't much for me to comment on one way or another and I was doing it from my phone so I gave up on that pretty quick.

Also Bell you stole my fucking idea before I said it so I'm going to steal your stolen idea preemptively and provide reasons to town read and scum read HST based on my reading.

Reasons to townread HST:
1. HST feels pretty Town tonally, a lot of his posts just gave me good feels in terms of how natural a lot of his one-liners are. I typically fall victim to writing slots off early that hit these notes with me. Ffery even mentioned in her read of HST at one point that HST's carefree attitude will generally fade as scum and I wouldn't say I've noticed any fading of it here.

2. I stand by the fact that HST's response surrounding the Lavar scum slip debacle sounded pretty town and even diametrically opposed what scum seemed to want from that since they were obviously looking for Enchant to make it to First Dance (looking at posts 2010 and 2015 specifically).

3. On a similar note, a lot of his thoughts surrounding the choice between Lavar and Enchant mirrored mine, and there was a specific post where he called Lavar Town that felt really good (2022)...only to walk it back a little bit later, so not like gargantuan town feelings there but +town points for articulating things exactly how I felt at the time I guess?

Reasons to scumread HST:
1. You'll notice all of my reasons for town reading HST occurred in the pairing phase. My biggest problem with this slot is how much of a non-entity they have been throughout Second Dance. I felt HST was pretty well engaged the first Day, but a lot of that good will has evaporated. From what he's presented in the thread during Second Dance, I do not see much effort devoted to scum hunting other than some engagement with Gypyx (who funnily enough feels like the designated mis-lim at this point LOL). At no time did HST really provide their thoughts on the order they'd want people to leave the dance, or make much effort to identify the town/town pair he wanted to bring to endgame. There's also no visible questioning of Bell other than the Gypyx reaction test which was supposedly also a test for Bell? Their play this phase just leaves a lot to be desired for me.

2. All of this is even more concerning because HST has supposedly been doing a bang up job in the neighborhood based on his "massive case" (Bell's words, not mine) on RH9 and that one post that he accidentally posted here that was meant for the neighborhood. Why hasn't this level of content and effort been provided in the thread at this point? There is a stark contrast between what Bell has conveyed about HST from the neighborhood and his play in the thread. Scum knows they lose the game if their partner leaves, so HST high-efforting in the neighborhood while keeping his cutesy, innocent persona in the thread feels like he's desperately trying to pocket Bell while maintaining the behavior that got him so widely town read in the Pairing Phase. This feeling is amplified keeping in mind that scum knew LLD was a dead woman walking today and the remaining scum was the only one with a chance of reaching endgame.

2. I don't know the best way to articulate this but I feel like there were a couple of scenarios in this game that look to me like scum!HST could be trying to earn quick town points for things that don't really deserve them. Not that he is vocally pointing to them and proclaiming his towniness, but there's just some stuff that stands out to me as possibly intentional when it's all compiled together:
- Asking Bell how he confirmed his role PM
- The RH9 "case" from the neighborhood that ultimately meant nothing
- The wall post that was meant for the neighborhood
- The Gypyx reaction test
Again, a lot of this on its own isn't that big of a deal, but I feel like these contributions illustrate a pattern of finding an easy way to pass stuff off as content, when in actuality they really don't provide anything. It's a lot of "look at me doing things" without actually doing things.

Clearly, I'm leaning towards HST being scum based on this analysis.

I still need to ISO Gypyx and reread Second Dance in its entirety.

[Gypyx]

also like idk another reason for me to just not be doubtful of spiffeh is that i know cabd's hard townread on me is meant to me WIFOM

he would not try to WIFOM people into killing me if the scum in all that was spiffeh who would still suffer from that

i'm still reading the ISO it's just more independant

[Spiffeh]

Bell, most interested in your response on my HST scum reasons above

Feel free to tell me I am exhibiting confirmation bias because I have been guilty of that in the past

[Bell]

I think you did a good job. I skimmed it, but I think my reasons are slightly different.

So it’s worth not reading again yet, because I am lazy and will steal your thoughts in place of my own. I’ll post in about 4 hours ish.

Don’t wait up on my account. Go look at the mysterious world of Gypyx.

[Gypyx]

i love being mysterious

[Gypyx]

Teh Town Stuff

Misc cause i remembered it mid-formatting and can't bother to quote, i think scum wouldn't complain of the game format screwing up with their reads, or like, once again it's a conscious effort from him to say town stuff as scum, you'd notice it's a pretty recurrent pattern in my thoughts

Hi fam, great news!

I rolled town this game so I don’t have to live these next few weeks in a constant state of debilitating anxiety! Don’t we love that for me?

easy town points for scum ik but i think it's very much more likely for town to do that

Still catching up but isn't it always suboptimal for a town player to leave before intermission UNLESS they are actively scum reading their dance partner?

Cabd/ffery's plan to leave before Intermission while vocally townreading one another is just...unnecessary

These games are literally lost by Town hastily leaving the dance prematurely so can we stop lining that shit up less than 48 hours into the game? Lol

This POV more likely comes from not having had cabd painstakingly explain his master plan to get spiffeh deepscum the win

Firebringer has truly run the gamut for me this game and is back to a pretty solid town read, mostly because of his interaction with LLD. I also felt his explanation for his ffery scum read without being asked feels like a townie who thinks he's right and trying to get people to see his perspective. I would expect scum!FB to lean more into his trolly, unhelpful nature as it takes a lot less effort to fake that, but his transition into really fighting to have ffery on everyone's radar was comforting to me.

Cabd's post accepting ffery's dance proposal is probably his towniest its and at this point I don't think scum!Cabd would so confidently vocalize his plan to leave before Intermission if he was just going to back out of it later.

SirCakez's posts were not great but I also think Cakez would try harder to seem town if he were scum? He definitely needs to contribute more substantially at the caliber in which is he is capable because a ffery scum read and a couple of maybe town reads aren't cutting it.

Catching up I was between inviting Gypyx and skitter to be my dance partner, but feel I could be more valuable at sorting Gypyx in a hood than I would skitter. Skitter is probably more capable of meeting my expectations as scum, and while I have only played one game with scum!Gypyx over two years ago, I have some level of confidence that I can sort her in a one on one setting (even though I hate neighborhoods).

Gypyx, may I have this dance?

i also don't think spiffeh attempts to shade firebringer where his scummate LLD is paired with him, this pair is already on a timer, but you wouldn't want to make the fuse even shorter, this is a stand in for all the times spiffeh avocates for their blood

I have to say I’m pretty underwhelmed with my current solve of RCEnigma/SirCakez/Fireisredsir/someone else so I probably need to stop writing people off so early!

does scum even say that when they'd be well happy to stay tunneled just a bit longer

Has anyone experienced scum!Gypyx recently that can weigh in on how they feel about her here? She has exceeded my expectations so far but it's not a townread I'm married to.

-> actively looking to scumread his dance partner
-> I think Spiffeh would be more aware of my scumgames status if he was also scum, this is not my most solid point tho

Hi I needed to get high immediately after work because it was just that kind of day

LLD I’m loving your energy keep it up (even though we disagree about a lot)

Then chat with me friendo, tell me where we disagree and see if you can't convince me otherwise or if I can bring you around to my side.

I need people to help me enact my plan either way or it just won't happen sooooooooooooooooo, let's fuckin' chat b'y

Of the remaining options at the time of your pseudo-solve, I think Enchant is the towniest of all of them. Where I have felt pretty bad about some of Lavar and RCEnigma's posts, I feel like Enchant just doesn't give a fuck and I feel like scum would really start giving a fuck if they were so widely preferred as the person to be left out of the dance. While he's not the most verbose or engaged I just get a townie vibe from his posts that I don't get from Lavar or RCEnigma.

However, I also won't care THAT much if Enchant is left behind because beyond town-pings here and there from his one liners I don't expect to be able to meaningfully sort him based on his play style and he will have to be PoE'd eventually. I just think there are bigger fish to fry (aka Lavar).

I think both Cabd and ffery are town currently. Ffery more than Cabd, but several of Cabd's recent posts felt good to me. Part of me wants to fight for their survival because I am kind of just appalled at the number of scum reads each of them have garnered and part of me also wants to stop trying to sort them because that pairing will likely be resolved by next phase no matter what and it wouldn't be worth the effort.

I think this ship has already sailed but I also disagree with the concept of a lady purposefully not pairing to remove two gentelemen. The less people that are removed in the pairing phase, the better. I'd rather see how everyone interacts and votes during the next phase and make further decisions from there when we're actually forced to have an opinion other than who to pair with.

Can you elaborate a little more on your RH9 scum read? He pinged me a bit early on but then he had like one good sounding post and I've admittedly been ignoring him ever since. He is one of the first few I plan to ISO whenever I get around to that, mostly because his post volume and density does not seem unbearable to trudge through.

this sounds suuuuuuuuuuuuper pockety from LLD, and spiffeh really replies as if his head is in another place from LLD

I'm really not in a position to give out more town reads but I think SirCakez is town after all.

What changed your mind here?

This game, you're not trying too hard to look like you're trying hard like I would expect you to as scum.

The specific moment I started feeling this way was here:

*pollutes game environment wildly*

I think scum!SirCakez who has been largely absent throughout the game and already on his back foot doesn't take the time for a jokey, nothing post like this with no other content. I think as scum you would try to emulate a carefree attitude but fill out your posts with something that could be considered content, rather than make a silly comment that doesn't state opinions or take *effort*.

The lack of caring about how you come across is something I don't see in your scum game typically.

this is the kind of overthinking only town can do i think, unless ofc this cakez townread would serve a specific purpose as scum but i just can't see it

HST's reaction to the "scum slip" is incredibly town, btw

you just don't say that to someone you're planning to get in endgame with

You previously had a scum read on me for most of pairing phase and seemed to at least be willing to consider that possibility at the start of the Second Dance too. Why am I now (hesitantly) one of your top four town reads? What changed to propel me higher on your reads list?

honestly i can't really find a way to explain this more than "vibes"

The Scustuff

(this also comes from a place of me trying to actively look for it since by mid iso it felt like i was confibiasing myself)

Hey Cabd do you want to like

engage with the game in any meaningful way?

The sudden agression is a bit jarring, making it seem like theater

Kinda bummed that Cabd keeps touting this hero-solve before intermission but has yet to really weigh in on who should be left behind this phase when I'd think that would something he'd want some input in and would lay a good foundation for said hero-solve?

Unless I missed a post from him or something

Do u think cabd should be townreading you and gypyx so strongly?

Nope, not to the level of calling us both locktown and calling for us to last until endgame so early.

However, I can see town!Cabd strongly townreading both myself and Gypyx INITIALLY based on what we have presented to the thread so far. Gypyx specifically is like night and day from her scum game in Tenet, where scum buddies Cabd and LLD and sometimes the rest of us had to coach her through many of her posts to avoid getting her eliminated and clearing half of the game (lol Tenet game mechanics).

But that was over two years ago and I think Cabd should be able to recognize that people can improve meta changes.

Ok so:
* given that cabd is townreading her so strongly, what does that say to you abt his alignment
* why are *you* townreading her ao strongly

Cabd is always overdramatic and I feel his declaration that our pair should be locktown for the rest of the game is NAI.

I also think you are overestimating how strongly I'm townreading Gypyx. I have indeed provided my reasons for town reading her overall, but the fact that she's been AWOL ever since I stated my intention to dance with her is not lost on me. That's what our neighborhood is for.

A lot of words that don't say much, given how he never ended up really pushing me for all of this, this could be simple posturing from spiff

I get town also wants to not get left behind and there aren't many options left but he really jumped at the opportunity to pair up as soon as someone explicitly said they would accept his request, despite not really discussing pair up options beforehand. Lol maybe I'm tunneled but he just looks like scum to me.

obviously people are often wrong but you have to account for his role in banishing Lavar outside of the danse

And yeah I get one shot to find a scum and I only reload if I get a headshot so I might be a little insufferable for a bit with thread presence and sounding like I run shit. Apologies in advance to everyone else.

I'm actually completely willing to sheep you today for three reasons:

1. I vocally disagreed with your scum reads yesterday and actively lobbied for Enchant to be paired to our detriment (somewhat?) so I feel bad about that.
2. If FB's leaving the dance if we don't hit scum immediately, I want to give you the opportunity to be right again and "save yourself"
3. Most of my opinions were wrong yesterday so a way to avoid further culpability in fucking up again is just blindly following your lead!

handing over the torch to LLD a bit too easily, and the lack of confidence doesn't really show a lot in the other stuff spiff is saying

[Gypyx]

holy shit i wrote words, can't belive it

[HolySpiritTurtle]

1. You'll notice all of my reasons for town reading HST occurred in the pairing phase. My biggest problem with this slot is how much of a non-entity they have been throughout Second Dance. I felt HST was pretty well engaged the first Day, but a lot of that good will has evaporated. From what he's presented in the thread during Second Dance, I do not see much effort devoted to scum hunting other than some engagement with Gypyx (who funnily enough feels like the designated mis-lim at this point LOL). At no time did HST really provide their thoughts on the order they'd want people to leave the dance, or make much effort to identify the town/town pair he wanted to bring to endgame. There's also no visible questioning of Bell other than the Gypyx reaction test which was supposedly also a test for Bell? Their play this phase just leaves a lot to be desired for me.

I'm gonna be honest with you, my "WIM," or whatever people call it these days, tanked significantly after fery got blown up. But with that said, my playstyle is more passive than it is active. I like watching people's posts, analyzing them, while trying to avoid tampering the interaction; All unless I have something important that I must mention or questions I need to ask. I've been wrong on pretty much everything in this game, I've been losing leads left to right, and every Eureka moments fell apart, until I realized that I only need to find one T/T pair. After that, I didn't really care who left first, as long as I find that T/T pair. I was already hard-townreading you at the time, and my only confident T/T pair at the time (FB/LLD, which turned out to be wrong) declared that they're not going to stay until endgame, and Bell seemed to hope that Gypyx is town, so I came up with that double reaction test. I didn't really question Bell because I was pretty confident that he's town. I didn't really question you either. The double reaction test against Bell was mostly "Juuuuuuuust in case" moment.

2. All of this is even more concerning because HST has supposedly been doing a bang up job in the neighborhood based on his "massive case" (Bell's words, not mine) on RH9 and that one post that he accidentally posted here that was meant for the neighborhood. Why hasn't this level of content and effort been provided in the thread at this point? There is a stark contrast between what Bell has conveyed about HST from the neighborhood and his play in the thread. Scum knows they lose the game if their partner leaves, so HST high-efforting in the neighborhood while keeping his cutesy, innocent persona in the thread feels like he's desperately trying to pocket Bell while maintaining the behavior that got him so widely town read in the Pairing Phase. This feeling is amplified keeping in mind that scum knew LLD was a dead woman walking today and the remaining scum was the only one with a chance of reaching endgame.

I wouldn't really call them a bang up job, but rather me being actively confused The one I accidentally posted here was me trying to braindump in my mellow-feeling-night so I can try to take a grasp at the game again, but other than that, most of my posts in the PT during the second dance were about what kind of reaction I'm expecting and what kind of reaction I'm seeing, so they weren't something I couldn't post here. In retrospect, I only looked for cheap ways to find stuff probably because I was being lazy.

[HolySpiritTurtle]

With that said, I'll try to re-scan the game again, but for all this time Bell was pretty much my locktown read, and I honestly don't see myself changing that. That reaction test was my last spec of doubt I had on him, and he passed it with flying color.

[HolySpiritTurtle]

Actually let me go look at LLD's posts during second dance.

[HolySpiritTurtle]

Ok i gotta bounce
Lld i am very happy to discuss tomorrow night, won't be around till then

Pedit my list is you, hst and like maybe (?) bell or fire (maybe me from your pov)

I don't think he entrusts the game to anyone else
But the same thought process is encouraging!

Nah Cabd wouldn't trust the game to me or Fire given the outcome kf things.

He would trust STD, You, Gypyx, Spiffeh, Cakez, HST.

Those are the people he would trust.

Unless you are looking for a player who has experience to guide a super townie to the end. Then he could trust me. He could trust you. He could trust Fire. He could trust Bell.

But if you are looking for Cabd's wincon it's in that list above.

i think all this talk of cabd "entrusting" the game to someone is pretty weird when in reality it's not like he sacrificed an advantageous position to do what he did, like most people viewed his pair as having 1 scum anyways

enchant meanwhile was maybe somewhat deeper but also not the kind of player who's gonna *do* a lot of stuff

You are WILD if you think this hasn't been Cabd's plan since fucking page 10 when he was getting mostly townreads and Ffery was being crucified.

Cabd would have avoided a Ffery pairing by calling her Scum and buried her in the fucking dirt if he wantes to try and play for long game. This was a Con.

Cabd trusted his game to someone in the overall town PoE. At least one, maybe two.
The plan to have enchant and cabd suicide to deny info means that people who tried to protect Enchant from being left out of the dance by me are majorly suspect.

I did exactly this, yet Firebringer said that you and him think myself and Gypyx should be an endgame pair.

Can you explain?

You seem eager though to tell me who did and didn't refute my Enchant should be left out assertions.

Wanna do the research for me and tell me what you find? Since you're eager.

Cabd would have avoided a Ffery pairing by calling her Scum and buried her in the fucking dirt if he wantes to try and play for long game.

I think scum Cabd had to pair with fery. He most likely knew that otherwise I would pair with fery, and that would cast over a giant doomsday spell on his team.

I'm sorry but this is the best argument for you being scum anyone has posted.

Cause if you think scum cabd is afraid of you and Ffery pairing as t/T I tho k you have lost your mind.

But if scum cabd was afraid you'd be forced to swallow the Poison Ffery pill instead and determined his longevity in this game (like mine) was lower than yours due to status and paranoia, then he might have swallowed the Ffery pill to protect you, yeah.

LLD, my argument is that you’re here to run the yards so that your team can get a touch down at the end.

Uh. But that’s only if you’re scum.

Yeah, no, YOUR argument makes sense. It's WRONG but it at least holds some water. I get it. If I'm scum here I'm setting up for the finale. I'm pushing an elimination through that needs to happen for my buddy to win and then going sayonara on the spot.

I'm not scum, but I at least get THIS paranoia.

I had an email etiquette training and I was told that all caps was bad because they might think you’re yelling at someone.

Might think? Oh no, who would get that impression, lol.

Compared to this day phase, I would not say you extensively and loudly pushed for their death.

You didn’t even use all caps.

Yesterday I laid out tons of reasons, tried to play nice and reasonable because when people in this game get yelled at they tend to do the fucking opposite of what I want. (Dance games in particular, I mean).

Like people wanna dance with who they wanna dance. I was VERY extensive and popped in EVERY time there was an opening for me to pitch. Sorry if I didn't yell, it turns out I was trying to have fun with this game instead of blowing a blood vessel.

I'm currently in "blowing a blood vessel" mode rn. Cause now I just wanna win and be heard and listened to. I feel like I got this game on fucking lock if I can just have a few days to piece it together and do my research without people going "LUL LLD SO SCUMMY FOR BEING GOOD AT SCUM"

Like you'd think maybe I'd be able to ignore it but it drives me up a fucking wall and it makes it so hard for me to focus on anything but wanting to strangle those people.

Like, Bell, the reason you're not getting yelled at is because at least, in your paranoia of me, there is some kind of like, tempered understanding and situational awareness. You make SENSE. You're WRONG. And I hate that you constantly think the worst outcome of me because it feels like I'm being played to in a manner of "LLD always draws scum so just assume she does instead of actually trying to townread her" but I actually understand your logic and can confront it.

The rest of these people are just doing what you're doing only with worst justification and it's so transparently just wanting not to be the one to die themselves!

These are the posts where LLD interacts with currently alive folks, for reference

[HolySpiritTurtle]

We can assume/consider this:

* Since it's us four in endgame, I concede that their plan was definitely deepscum. I thought they were trying to WIFOM it because otherwise it would make the presence of deepscum too obvious, but I guess not. Would LLD bus or not in the situation she was in?

[HolySpiritTurtle]

Spiffeh is... Town......?

Let's hope this game won't end up disaster like all previous ones.

Don’t most dance games result in town wins.
At least, all the games I’ve been in were town wins.

They were disasters too.

I don’t really think enchant can be coached.

Do you think i am hopeless huh

I want to raise question, but, why town should be calm at possiblity of being left out?

Hello?

I mean, this is litterally just Town / Mafia being exed discussion right now

How it's related

I want to raise question, but, why town should be calm at possiblity of being left out?

Hello?

I mean, this is litterally just Town / Mafia being exed discussion right now

How it's related

The only difference between being left / exed is that one is popular vote and the other is the choice of 1 person except they get influence by popular opinion too

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh reread my question

I want to raise question, but, why town should be calm at possiblity of being left out?

Hello?

I mean, this is litterally just Town / Mafia being exed discussion right now

How it's related

The only difference between being left / exed is that one is popular vote and the other is the choice of 1 person except they get influence by popular opinion too

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh reread my question

i think it's pretty widespread consensus that scum is generally more concerned about survivability than town, even if town can get concerned about it?

Sounds like bias

fire never ever ever picks me because i called them mafia (and they probably are and don't want to just instadie because of my triggerhappyness) so i am willing to throw this one, if they both instaleave.

If you end up not getting a pair and be eliminated, who should I go after?

Of course you will follow my leads.


Either way, there's no real difference who Fire picks. We all three almost ceirtanly dead.

These are the Enchant's posts that mentioned us.

[Gypyx]

With that said, I'll try to re-scan the game again, but for all this time Bell was pretty much my locktown read, and I honestly don't see myself changing that. That reaction test was my last spec of doubt I had on him, and he passed it with flying color.

ok now i'm really curious what you mean by "passed it with flying colors" cause if that's what happened sounds like the bar was really low