Open 903: IC Basic [Game Over]

[Aureal]

[Aureal]

VOTE: gob

Fight me! I shall claim the true crown!

[Aureal]

Stop thumping tubs and go find some scum, Bingle! This isn't a concert!

[Aureal]

oh ok that, i misphrased it

You would notice that i corrected myself afterwards

Hm. Why do you think wanting to progress game but not being sure how is a scum trait?

we agree that town rarely wants to fabricate thoughts that they don't actually have right? At most they play up their reads for getting reactions and stuff

if they don't have anything, such as during RVS, they need to fish, which is extremely different from actually expressing a read

and, an easy way for scum to stumble is to try to express reads that don't actually have any substance behind them since "we're in RVS i need to push the game fowards that's what i would do"

Obviously they're aware of it so an easy way to do it is in the shape of jokes / undermine themselves / whatever, but them mindset stays here

oooh this is a really creative read

Creative? Does that mean you think it's made-up?

[Aureal]

Ok, talk to me about leek and Nora? I have one tr and it isn't either of them.

Who is your townread? Is it gob?

Ahahahaha

I had some weird vibes from Nora at first but now I'm leaning town on her

[Aureal]

VOTE: NotAScum

Not convinced

[Aureal]

Anyone else feeling Gypyx is trying to sow confusion and chaos? Mafia loves that.

i love confusion and chaos

Awww, I love confusion and chaos too! <3

Except for when I don't.

[Aureal]

Well... You're right! I'm not curious about why Bella would conceal her town read. I just wanted to see if I could guess who her town read was.

Are you not curious about the

why

because you think you understand it already?

[Aureal]

Trust that he's town anyway

I expect if he wasn't confirmed town I'd be inquiring into why he thinks I was looking for a reason when I didn't even give a reason. But no point here

[Aureal]

I'm not really sure why you're talking like it's even near the end of the day when it's actually only been 48 hours.

[Aureal]

I'd think scum would try to avoid doing the behavior they're scum reading people for. Is this wrong?

This is circular reasoning lol

Agreed. I've actually always thought the opposite was the case. If someone is doing something and yet saying someone else doing the same thing is sus, it's frequently an indication of a guilty conscience projecting their scumminess.

Huh. I took the hypocrisy=scummy approach for a while when I started playing again. Didn't really work for anything other than getting me into TvTs.

[Aureal]

NotAScum - I'm scumreading him because of the "caught for the wrong reasons" vibe I got from 72, but he's also already got significant antipartner equity with Aureal and Leek, which is odd if he's scum.

Cool, can I have some more antipartner equity too?

VOTE: SzmarzLeek

[Aureal]

Bingle giving a reads list after being called scum is a panic move if ive ever seen 1

Oooh, let me try too!

Nora.: look how awkward this is, it looks like I typoed a period in there
Wisp: confusing me by suspecting me for suspecting the same person he did
Gypyx: trying to be me and I don't know if I can approve of this
Bellaphant:
NotAScum: obvious LAMIST name bears scrutiny
Bingle: talks a lot
SzmarzLeek: not trying hard enough to throw people out of windows while cackling about how towny he is
gob: obvious thief is obvious

[Aureal]

Because basically every post contains pontification about Mafia theory and not a whole lot else? It's awkward for sure. So, so consistently awkward I was starting to lean towards it maybe just being a playstyle thing. I'm certainly not opposed to a wagon there again though, could be a wolf playstyle thing.

VOTE: NotAScum

[Aureal]

VOTE: NotAscum

Alright everyone hop on this wagon. This is a wolf most likely;

Wait, would they lie so blatantly in their username like that??

Hey, get your own joke material; I already wore that one out!

[Aureal]

Glad I'm not the only one who had some confusion there

[Aureal]

Maybe role names shouldn't be allowed in usernames

[Aureal]

That's not even a role name, mech fail!

[Aureal]

Cool, my PoE got smaller.

At least, I think that was part of my PoE.

Meh, I'll pay attention to this game eventually.

[Aureal]

Aureal will die today

Counterproductive, sending things to 5p elo probably not a high win rate for us

I'll probably be doing another read of this game in the next day or so, now that my blitz game that was taking up approximately 87.3647% of my headspace is over; maybe I'll come up with totally different thoughts

I really wasn't kidding about my Leek read though y'know. His vibes are just waaaaay off what they were in the game we played before. It was his first game here so maybe his playstyle has shifted; but it's rather concerning because he just bled self-righteous towniness to me in that game and this feels like someone taking that and smoothing it down to 70% intensity so it doesn't actually draw so much attention.

[Aureal]

This is par for the course

[Aureal]

anytime people use percentages they r scum

Oh no, there is like a 0.0000% chance that you caught me!

[Aureal]

Okay... so my re-read is progressing...

Page 3/4:
Leek posts a tr on Wisp, and now knowing that Wisp is town I feel like it might be a pocket. A few posts later, Gypyx comments that it seems like a pocket. So +townpoints Gypyx, also +slight partner equity with Leek for seeing that without knowing Wisp is town

NAS is already voting Leek here, and Bingle comes in for a first bit of serious posting by pressing Gypyx about cognitive dissonance on a post where she had (pretty obviously) used the opposite word of what she meant then corrected herself in the next post. When that correction is pointed out, Bingle doesn't back down but instead skeptically asks her to explain her worldview. Potential chainsaw (I think that's what it's called?) defense of Leek

Page 5: Nora points out that Bingle seems like he was defending Leek...

...well now I just feel slow and should probably get some sleep

[Aureal]

This game just really makes me sleepy for some reason and I don't know why. Other than that I've been lacking sleep lately I guess.

There’s been a lot of answering for other people and leading questions that make me feel all nasty inside.

What were you referring to here?

[Aureal]

Trying to struggle through a bit more rereading and I'll cite this as an example of my Leek vibecheck:

I'm convincing myself that Bingle and Leek could be partners based off Bingle's defence of them. What do you think?

that's a very naive thought to make

I don't like that you had this thought

scumreading me is fine, but pointing at partnership so early seems sus to me, especially based on such situation
I think you rather stay quiet/slight sus about your partner in a 2-scum game

1) I had Nora's thought too, so
2) It's really hard to see the Leek from our past game saying "scumreading me is fine", it sounds like trying to be reasonable rather than attention grabbing. Leek in that game was all about "hahahaha I'm so obviously town!!!"

[Aureal]

Aureal really is SCANNING these posts

Don’t really think this is S/S though.

???

I don't even understand what is attempting to be conveyed here by Gypyx

[Aureal]

I'm realizing that I was apparently suspicious to both dead townies so I'm a little surprised that there's been absolutely no movement towards me here in this gamestate. Maybe scum want a non-gob townie to start it so they have someone to sus for a bad push next. Or maybe Drew is scum so they realize trying to come at me already is just gonna blow up in their face.

[Aureal]

Bellaphant has been prodded.

This is Bella's biggest scumtell. According to my records.

you mean, you have a metaread? Bella is more inclined to not care about game if they don't roll a scum?

because in my experience, not knowing the meta, it's townies that are doing that in more cases

yea

This entire sequence still confuses me. Leek is reading gob backwards here.

[Aureal]

I feel like I should be obvtown, given both the mechanical and fun deficiency in the nightkill. As such, there are now 3 functional conftown so we’re looking pretty good for a PoE solve.

Why should I be townreading you?

I don't understand this post. Who is it even directed at?

[Aureal]

I've analyzed the wagon from day one.

Given the fact Will O' was killed, I think the three people off-wagon (Nora, Gypx, and Bingle) look really bad.

I will LOOK into their isos from here forward. Going on-wagon we have 4 people iirc as the pool, maybe its 3 cant remember. But I think its safe to hunt off-wagon here judging from the will o' night kill. (Mafia wouldn't kill on the main-wagon if 2 of the mafia are on it. Aka probably 1 maf on 1 maf off. And off-pool is smaller)

So im saying right now that everyone should focus on those 3 people for the lim today. I haven't read any of today's discussion btw. So if you were being sussed and you're not nora gypx or bingle, then you are off the hook 4 today my friend.

You were on-wagon and I assume we shouldn't be considering you part of the pool. So 3 is smaller than 3?

[Aureal]

Everyone pile on gpyx, im half convinced they're frozen rn lol

Why do you think scum would be frozen here?

[Aureal]

I'm realizing that I was apparently suspicious to both dead townies so I'm a little surprised that there's been absolutely no movement towards me here in this gamestate. Maybe scum want a non-gob townie to start it so they have someone to sus for a bad push next. Or maybe Drew is scum so they realize trying to come at me already is just gonna blow up in their face.

Lol, I don't know what makes you think I would be scared to come after you in a world where you were town and I was scum

Okay, sure

[Aureal]

Aureal really is SCANNING these posts

Don’t really think this is S/S though.

???

I don't even understand what is attempting to be conveyed here by Gypyx

Gypyx pointed out that your analysis of me questioning her was very surface level and missed a lot of thread nuance (like the whole part where we already discussed what I hoped to gain through that and it wasn't a defensive sequence at all), and I don't think that scum calls out their partner for surface level analysis or that scum doesn't really look at the circumstances for their partners interactions in this gamestate. Thus, the two of you are probably not scum together.

Wow, now I'm starting to think you're just trying to shut me down with negativity, lest I actually get into this game.

Gypyx didn't point out shit, you're answering for her (after wringing your hands earlier about people answering for others )

Speaking of 'surface level' analysis, I guess you missed that I wasn't calling Gypyx out at all there except for a faint possibility of TMI about Wisp's alignment?? It was you and Leek I was expressing suspicion about in that post.

VOTE: Bingle

[Aureal]

Everyone pile on gpyx, im half convinced they're frozen rn lol

Why do you think scum would be frozen here?

What are they supposed to do when they're pinned?

What does 'pinned' mean?

And yes, I'm sus of Leek, have you read my posts?

[Aureal]

It's true that Drew is not doing much and it's hard to get much of a read on him as a result. Have you played with Drew before, is there something in particular that makes you think him being lazy with his vote is likely scum?

[Aureal]

Okay, I originally thought maybe your read on him was meta-based, the way you were phrasing it earlier in 331. I guess I was also slightly misreading that post though. At this point I'm slightly townreading Drew for the way he's engaging with this, but it's not the firmest of reads.

[Aureal]

Do you have a read on Leek?

[Aureal]

Okay, it's honestly a little baffling that you're so hard on Drew for voting a slot you maaaaaaaaybe have a read on.

[Aureal]

Okay, it's honestly a little baffling that you're so hard on Drew for voting a slot you maaaaaaaaybe have a read on.

I can totally see drew's behaviour today as a poor attempt to create distance with his partner, i'd even argue it makes more sense than drew trying to do that to town!leek in a poor attempt to steer today's exe towards him

Maybe vote Leek then?

[Aureal]

A fruit roll up?

[Aureal]

A fruit roll up?

Another non-focused post. I really think you're scum and Nora is town.

I think we're both town

And Nora has a point about the nk- I kinda felt like that was a mason-hunting shot.

[Aureal]

i'm basically oscillating between thinking i'm the best and just need to push harder and thinking i'm the worst and that i'll end up being wrong regardless

being aggro also just makes me feel better about things

Wow, you really are trying to be me

[Aureal]

Wow, now I'm starting to think you're just trying to shut me down with negativity, lest I actually get into this game.

Gypyx didn't point out shit, you're answering for her (after wringing your hands earlier about people answering for others )

Speaking of 'surface level' analysis, I guess you missed that I wasn't calling Gypyx out at all there except for a faint possibility of TMI about Wisp's alignment?? It was you and Leek I was expressing suspicion about in that post.

VOTE: Bingle

I’m not trying to shut you down in the slightest.

Gypyx accused you of scanning, aka not reading in depth, which checks out but isn’t necessarily a smoking gun. And you were specifically asking about my antipartner read, so

And no, I didn’t think you were at the head of the lim Gypyx brigade. It’s also irrelevant to the antipartner read.

Oh yes of course, saying people are giving surface reads is in no way telling them they're bad and should stfu

Again, this is all your interpretation of a nonsensical comment by Gypyx which she isn't elaborating upon.

And I have no idea what the rest of that about your antipartner read even means and at this point I'm too annoyed to bother spending more time trying to figure out if there is any sensible meaning.

[Aureal]

Hey gypyx, can you explain why the gob kill is mechanically the best?

on top of what enchant said it also has the benefit of not allowing the mason partner to keep his reads hidden, so killing IC is good (especially IC gob)

pedit : stop pediting everyone

Why is killing IC gob good, he's not exactly showing signs of leading town to a resounding victory XD

[Aureal]

Yeah, I know they need to get at least one of the IC or the mason by 3p elo obviously. I dunno that going after him N1 is necessary though.

[Aureal]

Pretty clearly not any sort of serious pressure on Gypyx, but rather a direct defense of leek (not a chainsaw), an attempt to figure out gypyx’s thought process, and something that had literally already been explained as that the next page. What does this indicate other than a lack of critical reading as to what was going on there?

Who even gives a crap about 'serious pressure' or whatever? I barely even remember what this argument is about in the first place, you're trying to go all over the place with it. I had a thought about there being a partner defense during my re-read and commented on it. And you jumped at me using Gypyx's post as a way to prop up your argument to start being insulting and take down the thought that I had. I don't buy into these "oh of course scum wouldn't try to defend their partner on day 1 no matter how subtly hahaha what a silly thought" arguments so if that's what you wanna argue with me you're wasting your time. And you're the one lacking in critical reading here, trying to attack me for not knowing while reading page 5 that there's going to be more conversation on that subject on the next page. Not that the next page did anything to change my opinion when I got there.

As far as an attempt to shut your engagement down… it would be far more effective to just not engage with you if I didn’t want you producing content.

Yeah I have a bit of a hard time believing you believe that.

[Aureal]

My solve atm is enchant aureal, but I’m open to being wrong on aureal.

Drew is nothingburger, Nora is solid town and you’re probs not scum with enchant or aureal

I think Aureal has pretty high chances of being town, and even then i'm more confident to let her alive than nothingburgers 1 and 2

Why do you think I'm likely to be town?

[Aureal]

im not sure why people arent following me

Aren't you?

[Aureal]

My solve atm is enchant aureal, but I’m open to being wrong on aureal.

Drew is nothingburger, Nora is solid town and you’re probs not scum with enchant or aureal

And why do you think Gypyx wouldn't be scum with either of us?

[Aureal]

NOOOOOO BINGLE

Excessively performative. This is scum.

[Aureal]

Anyway

Sorry to all the town players who want to have their own thoughts and stuff,
But, unfortunately after yesterday and the death of Bingle, I will be controlling this town entirely and deciding the lim for today.

I understand if people do not want to blindly follow me. But i urge everyone to follow me somewhat since its pretty clear from the lim and NK that scum has full control of this game state.

I've got a default 66% chance of voting scum, you've only got 50%

[Aureal]

You stole my jokes first!

[Aureal]

Now you're stealing my questions too??

[Aureal]

Aureal i thought she was mason but like clearly she isn't so i'll try to look again here

When and why did you think this?

[Aureal]

GOOD MORNING SIRS

Wow, not only are you only wishing Drew good morning, but you think there's more than one of him? Cold.

[Aureal]

Aureal i thought she was mason but like clearly she isn't so i'll try to look again here

When and why did you think this?

gob immediatly unvoting your wagon when you got into actual kill range is what made me think of it first, and i thought your wishy washyness came from a place of self-preservation

You've been defending me the whole game though, since gob started that wagon. Just like you've defended an awful lot of players who've since flipped town. It's like you just knew they were town, and could just do stuff like brush off NAS's scumminess as playstyle. Meanwhile, I've just been wrong about basically everything I've expressed any level of confidence in.

You also just let me spar with Bingle over his interpretation of your post about me rather than clarify anything. That's feeling a lot like scum glad to sit back and let townies fight, rather than town who would hopefully be motivated to try to clarify their words.

It's also not lost on me that the day suddenly ended just after I asked why you were townreading me. If you're partnered with Nora that hammer makes a lot of sense as a way to avoid having to talk about that while you were the counterwagon and I'm showing signs that I might be moving towards it.

[Aureal]

Drew are you actually taking the obvious joke seriously?

[Aureal]

Gypyx, you don't seem to have any desire to actually talk to me about any specifics. I made a reasonably detailed post elaborating on my suspicions of you and all I'm getting in return is "lol u scummy." Oh, and some AtE that you may well know could possibly make me balk.

[Aureal]

Really? It seemed like gob agreed with my train of thought and you're just throwing reasonless shade at it. It feels very positional, like you expect to go down here but you're still hoping if you just make bad attacks it'll still look like we could be partnered because you wouldn't want to actually tear down your partner.

[Aureal]

No, I'm saying you seem to be making intentionally bad attacks because
1) you don't have much in the way of a good response to give because you didn't actually have a thought process there to explain; and
2) if you were still able to come up with good-looking responses it would make us both look townier to interact with each other discussing them, but you're probably going down anyway and don't want me to look townier because I'm not your partner

If you were town here I'd think you'd want to try to explain things if I've misunderstood them and try to find me. You're just shutting me out without any explanation.

[Aureal]

so once again, i didn't wanna answer these questions cause they just look like they're made in bad faith, but like, sure ok

Why do they look like they're in bad faith?

1) ummm, like, yeah NAS? who else? and like what, if they flipped scum you would've said "you defended an awful lot of players who flipped scum" this litterally means NOTHING. I also pretty much turned around on NAS at the end of day and was planning to hammer him, weird that you're leaving this out of your line of argument

NAS and me clearly, Bingle somewhat, and I think Wisp? (I'm not actually clear what 'based' means but I think it's positive). That said, my read on that wasn't as strong when I reviewed your ISO again just now to clarify, so eh. You did spend a lot of time tussling with Leek, who was also my primary scumread for much of the game.

2) this wasn't about my words? like, idk, that's where the starting points of stuff was sure, but i didn't feel like there really was anything to clarify since it was more Bingle using it as a starting point to propel his own arguments, also you're really audacious to accuse me of sitting back when you're the slot that's more guilty of that, once again, scum players scumreading based on their own way of playing as scum

These are unrelated arguments. You sitting back and not saying anything about Bingle's interpretation of your words implies that you didn't have a problem with the interpretation; and since I clearly thought his interpretation was insulting, you not saying anything looks like trying to avoid also getting that negative attention from me. Referring to my overall detachment from this game as a comparison to a specific situation that you were involved in but chose to stay as far away from as possible is just totally wrongheaded. And why would you even think I would play that way as scum?

3) or like, you could ask your scumbuddy Nora to hammer the day now and kill me tommorow before i realize how cooked I am, i too can create theories about what happened that's crazy

Huh? I don't even know what the latter half of that means; and for the first part if I was scum why would I start eyeing you yesterday but get Nora to end the day without any discussion of it?

[Aureal]

No, I'm saying you seem to be making intentionally bad attacks because
1) you don't have much in the way of a good response to give because you didn't actually have a thought process there to explain; and
2) if you were still able to come up with good-looking responses it would make us both look townier to interact with each other discussing them, but you're probably going down anyway and don't want me to look townier because I'm not your partner

If you were town here I'd think you'd want to try to explain things if I've misunderstood them and try to find me. You're just shutting me out without any explanation.

I think you just perfectly described the main issue I have had with Gyp since I repped in

yeah idk, i'm trying to be more direct with things

but like, interacting with a slot i think is scum is also very different from interacting with a slot i think is town? like, i feel like we're not playing the same game here

Why exactly do you suddenly think I'm scum? All I've seen is that now you know I'm not the mason, and... you apparently think I'm not feeling distressed enough about it being ELO? Why do you feel I should be taking this game very seriously here- you've clearly seen that I've not been very invested for most of it.

[Aureal]

uhm wait so were you simply not getting scummy pings from bingle or were you explicitly townreading them? your first post said the former and now it's the latter. because...there's a difference. the absence of scummy pings does not make someone townie enough that you ignore a wagonomics read on them while agreeing with the other two on the same principle. like, it should make then hover around null, leaving the read susceptible to change through other tells such as what gob brought up.

and fwiw im harping on this particular point because there's a chance scum already knew bingle was unpushable at that point be it because they either had a strong pr read there or had used a role cop on them, and so i went back to look for potential tmi d2

Oh right, there's a rolecop in this setup

Hmmm

[Aureal]

im back

OMG WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN?!?!?! WE WERE SO LOST WITHOUT YOU!!!!!

[Aureal]

Would like for Aureal to clarify her scum team read, same for Gob

Obviously it's gob and gob, duh.

[Aureal]

1) Yeah so that's cool i was townreading some townies, like, wowzies, shocker ! (also even if i didn't really get in depth on that i absolutely was wary of Bingle) once again you can't just apply scumreading concepts in a vaccum and claim you've caught me, it's also once again very misrepresentative to claim i was on the side of the NAS defenders when i absolutely would've hammered him without wisp beating me to it

IDK what you mean by the first bit, and I don't think the fact that you turned around and were suspicious of NAS towards the end of the day negates that you were defending him early. My trajectory was the opposite, where I was suspicious of him early and that diminished as I saw the cringey behavior continue unabated and realized it was probably just how he is and maybe not alignment indicative. So of course I'm going to find it weird that you had him pegged as town based on relatively little and then went back on it, I think that's clearly more suspicious. Though I guess you probably didn't have too much need to walk back the read, with gob pushing a wagon on him.

2) well now it's me who's not understeanding what you're saying to me right now, that's like, great lol

What about it?

3) because that allows you to push me on that basis? like obviously scum!you doesn't want me to be able to answer too much, who knows, i might end up *gasp* clearing myself !

Well, I'm not, I'm trying to figure you out.

[Aureal]

Nah

[Aureal]

Why are we in such a hurry to do stuff, there's 3 days left

I'm still trying to think about things

And mostly failing at the moment, but I'll probably get back into it eventually

[Aureal]

Not really much to say other than I feel like gob letting us resolve this would increase the overall chances of victory

But then I realized maybe he knows that and is messing around still

idfk what goes through his head, I just expect him to mess around as long as possible

[Aureal]

It's tempting to just abdicate responsibility, sure. You guys already have that covered though, I don't need to do anything here. If you're town you need to appeal to gob to change his vote, I'm irrelevant.

[Aureal]

lol

[Aureal]

Meh, this time I'm not gonna do the thing where you try to get me worked up in conviction and look scummy so a townie votes me instead. It seems pretty clear what you're trying to do here, with a literal IC voting you either the game is over when Gypyx and Nora get together to hammer you or you're obvscum. If you're town you know you need to get gob back on your side. Instead you appealed to me when I literally can't do anything here to avert an impending loss if gob is voting wrong, but if he's not wrong I could still place a wrong vote that gives you the chance to end the game before it becomes apparent that he's not wrong. I have zero reason to do anything other than watch for a hammer.

[Aureal]

GG; thanks for modding, TL

I just could not get into this one for various reasons, but I did briefly have the solve. And Gypyx was canny enough to see that I was close to voting her and started talking to me and was winning me back, so well played there.

[Aureal]

Yeah Bingle, obviously you conspired to set Nora. up for that hammer in your secret mason-mafia PT! No use denying it, you treacherous traitor-guy!

[Aureal]

(I wouldn't take gob very seriously)

[Aureal]

So guys, did you know this was my 20th straight town PM??? Pretty crazy, huh?

[Aureal]

So guys, did you know this was my 20th straight town PM??? Pretty crazy, huh?

Nice. My longest streak was 5 scum in a row when I first started.

Nice? I haven't had a proper scum role since 2007. I rolled town 10 times in a row when I started playing again, got one multiball scum game which was played like at least 90% trying to hunt Fire Mafia just like if I was town, then 20 more town games. I literally don't know what it's like to play scum in a vaguely normallish way- that blitz game where I finally broke the townstreak just after this sure wasn't it either. I feel like I'm at something of a disadvantage in being able to identify early signs of scum play because I literally don't have experience seeing things from that side of the game. It's kinda driving me crazy and sometimes I just do wacky things like spend the game role-playing a goose or come up with an elaborate fake claiming scheme to try to scratch the itch that comes with constantly having to solve the game rather than manipulate it.

I'm gonna have a 30-game townstreak next, aren't I?