Mini Theme 2328: Death Note: Second Page. Day 3!

[Enchant]

Official Vote Count 2.01

The instrument to write with can be anything, e.g. cosmetics, blood, etc. as long as it can write directly onto the note and remains as legible letters.

Execution

With

8

votes in play, it takes

5

to execute someone.

Gimli

(1): CUDDLE TIME

Klick

(1): Radical Rat

Not Voting

(6): Little Will o' Wisp, HighPrincessErinys, Aureal, Gimli, Klick, Freedom

Deadline:

(expired on 2024-03-07 19:09:15).

Grace Period: No one can be hammered for (expired on 2024-03-01 19:09:15)

Mod Notes: Even i won't know if invisible ink will work.

[Radical Rat]

And I don't understand everyone else's view of the game, where this somehow isn't obvious.

Dragon's been bending over backwards to keep you alive, and stop me from pushing you, with that single temporary vote being the only move contrary.

I did very briefly entertain the idea that maybe you were Detective and CUDDLE TIME was an overzealous Assistant instead, but then Dan claimed and died for it so that's off the table.

So at this point I'm pretty convinced I had the solve right.

[CUDDLE TIME]

Dragon's been bending over backwards to keep you alive, and stop me from pushing you, with that single temporary vote being the only move contrary

Can you quote the posts where he does this?

-Black

[Klick]

And I don't understand everyone else's view of the game, where this somehow isn't obvious.

I gave it to you on a platter, you just didn't like it and decided to ignore it

[Klick]

Anyway, I'm not scum of any variety and I'd like to discuss the alternative with people who haven't made their mind up

I'm considering just claiming what info I have because of the current circumstances not exactly being ideal

[Radical Rat]

Dragon's been bending over backwards to keep you alive, and stop me from pushing you, with that single temporary vote being the only move contrary

Can you quote the posts where he does this?

-Black

It's more likely that I'm wrong in my reads than that we'll get a good flashwagon elimination without ActionDan on-board

I'll consolidate on anyone except you if I MUST, but I'd rather at least try to flashwagon the PoE and go back to voting whoever Dan wants if it fails.

- Dragon

I thought the push on HPE was weak, and expressed as much, but what stuck out to me was your insistence on it being a red herring, and your supposition that Action Dan was Kira based on basically nothing. I wanted to wait and see how things developed, and then they just got worse.

Your reaction to HPE claiming a shitpost seemed to indicate you thought it WAS signaling Kira, but that doesn't quite align with your red herring claim earlier. I thought perhaps you might have been a Follower either misdirecting to protect Gimli, perhaps assuming HPE was the other partner and being worried someone else would interpret that as a signal, or potentially Dan's Follower, trying to do a reverse psychology, which would explain why you never actually voted Dan.

But then Gimli's suggestion that Kira won't look scummy combined with you being absent from his PoE pool due to "investigative depth" that doesn't exist, with you yourself describing your reads as vibe-based, made all of the pieces Klick into place.

You jumped at HPE because, as Kira, you're looking for these signals, and having seen something that you think looks like a signal but directed towards someone else, you tried to push that narrative. No matter whether it lands on Gimli or Dan, it's not you. Gimli's oddities would put him as a strong Follower candidate, and then Dragon immediately jumping on me as soon as I suggested I thought you were Kira... well I think he's overplayed the hand now.

So I suppose to answer your question, Klick, what I'm looking for... is justice.

Rereading this, meh I can see your points of Klick being Kira. But I feel annoyed cause I want to have some townreads I'm confident of. And I'm also still reading Rat as scum.

Rat, would you mind untunneling Klick for a bit and pushing elsewhere as if Klick flipped not-Kira (which would helo me read you better if you are town and in fact also help me read Klick better), and then you can go back to pushing him?

I mean you can't be 100% sure he's Kira anyway and your tunnel makes you hard to read and the gamestate pretty annoying yo operate in. If you die then I will seriously consider pushing Klick. If you don't you can resume pushing him tomorrow after we have info from a flip and detective, which will like help, I guess.

- Dragon

VOTE: Gimli
HURT: RR

Will elaborate on this later but I wanna see if anyone else is seeing what I'm seeing first

- Dragon

Okay, as promised, here's my process:

I've been townreading Klick for a while now (perhaps for bad reasons, but with his posting I feel I'm more likely to be right for the wrong reasons than just wrong). I've also concluded that T-Bone is town and that Drew is not Kira regardless of his alignment. I've thought Hu Tao was scummy but her play makes sense more as scummy town than as Kira IMO (but not letting her off the hook completely). So that leaves a pool of Aureal/Gimli/RR/AD/HPE. This pool doesn't necessarily contain all scum but I do think it contains Kira.

I've been wanting to townread almost every single post that Gimli made this game, because they are (at least on surface level) towny posts, because they look pretty solvy. However I don't really think any of them are posts that couldn't be faked by scum, especially uninformed scum (I.E. Kira). Additionally, Thomith pointed out in the hydra PT and I agree with this, some posts feel like solving for the sake of solving without thought process behind them / fake solving, for example:
in 107/108/109, Gimli is scumreading Klick for posting something irrelevant to what was said (?)
In 246, Gimli is liking "Klick's evaluation of HPE", except at that point Klick has written 0 evaluation of HPE (???) (like I guess he could've meant "I think HPE is follower, not Kira" which is also what I was thinking, and this possibility is also why I didn't really vote Gimli back then or say anything)
And in general I think he puts a lot more effort this game into looking like he has reads than in actually forming reads? Because I just don't see the thought process in his posts all that much (I do see SOME process, I just feel it's lacking)

Well anyway, this explains why Gimli was on my Kira shortlist more than why I voted him. The reason I voted him was this:

I want to remove hu tao from d1 pool and work with (AD, RR, HPE, tbone)

as for HPE: is there any slot defending it? does it have potential followers?

Why hu tao?

- A

I enjoyed the flow of hu tao's latter posting with aureal and agree with the town lean on drew, I can see where both stances are coming from

granted it's thin

scumpool of (RR, AD, hu tao, HPE, tbone) seems fine for d1

@klick: can you elaborate on AD = kira read?

every other slot in my pool seems to be more inviting as a potential kira flip than HPE, from how I expect kira to play

What's made you rule out Klick?

I'm never flipping klick on d1 regardless (no this isn't signaling (neither is this (ad infinitum)))

I feel like his stances are closely aligned with how I feel about players which is good, and his read on HPE has investigative depth that could be harder to think of when scum

You sure you haven't confused Klick with someone else? Because I'm not seeing any of this "investigative depth"

In fact, Klick is on my short list of potential Kiras. I've just been waiting for the right moment to switch my vote, and it seems I've found it.

VOTE: Klick

To me, Gimli's explanation of his reads in posts 309/313/318 felt somewhat off, and I thought that it would make sense for Rat, given their incredulity at Gimli's read of Klick, to go after Gimli actually (because GImli having a weird and from Rat's POV unjustified/completely wrong read should be questioned with more than "are you sure you didn't confuse Klick with someone else?"), instead of using said incredulity as a pivot for suddenly voting Klick. It just struck me as a contrived/unnatural progression and made me think GImli could be Kira with Rat as a follower.

Reading Aureal's post: yes, jarring is exactly the word to describe that pivot.

- Dragon

[Aureal]

Okay, I see I forgot exactly how the death note works and that was definitely a death note kill, not an assassination, so I'll be a little more straightforward about what I was thinking here.

Dragon: ugh I'm going to sleep, Klick/HPE/Gimli/Aureal plz tell me what to do
Aureal/Klick/HPE: *vote Hu Tao*
Gimli: *barely exists due to migraines*
Dragon: OMG HOW DARE YOU!!!!!! I'M GONNA GET GIMLI!!!!!
Klick/HPE/Gimli/Aureal: what
Dragon: FINE GIMLI CAN BE TOWN! LET'S GET WILLOW! WAIT WE CAN'T, OK LET'S GET GIMLI!!!

I said I'd sheep the one who made sense

Voting Hu Tao made 0 sense

- Dragon

Why though? You can't just say "it doesn't make sense". It made plenty of sense. Dan claimed PR so obviously we don't want to push him or people who could be his detective. However, it was also quite plausible he was fake claiming, in which case he's a follower certainly pushing associations he believes to indicate the detective. So pushing in his scumreads is also bad. Especially HPE/Gimli in particular, whom I'd clocked as a particularly likely pair after I realized that the lashing out HPE was doing could be the frustration of an assistant who feels too closely tied to their detective to be safe counterclaiming. That doesn't leave a lot to work with and so I went for Hu Tao as someone I'd actually scumread.

You are the one who isn't making sense here. If we were allegedly your townreads and you wanted us to figure out what to do, what exactly is it you think we should have done? You chastised us for not working together and suspecting each other and then also for working together instead of suspecting each other! If you're actually town here you need to knock it the hell off and think about what you're doing, it's really irritating and seems like you just wanna sow chaos rather than have a train of thought.

I see your argument that Kira isn't going to be at risk on day one therefore Hu couldn't be Kira and I think that's ridiculous and defeatist. I don't believe that you believe it's impossible to flip scum on day one. You feel like you're expressing tmi here with your read of Hu not being Kira before the flip showed it. Hu was in a neutralish state where she basically could be anything, and even now I feel it's plausible she could be a follower of someone who hasn't needed defense, and there's certainly slots like that.

[Radical Rat]

While I do think Hu Tao was a bad elimination, saying there won't be will for a Kira elimination is... real bad.

It creates the excuse of whenever there IS a will to eliminate someone you can just go "Oh, but if this were Kira we wouldn't be this close to eliminating them, so we shouldn't hammer"

[Klick]

I think we as a group simply don't have the tech necessary to make proper reads in a game with limited relationships between scum lol

[Gimli]

if we're in the best possible world, then hu tao was a follower

re-reading hu tao for 'spew' would give us a non-kira pool of (me, aureal, wisp, cuddle, and I think hpe to a lesser extent)

so kira pool would be (RR, klick, freedom)

I don't remember much of dr drew anymore but I felt he was towny when he was around and I liked his interactions with aureal. although that doesnt mean much if he is kira cause kira gets to have legitimate townreads

[Gimli]

I think we as a group simply don't have the tech necessary to make proper reads in a game with limited relationships between scum lol

talk to me about how youre reading hpe currently

[Klick]

Every time I've gone back to reeval HPE I've stopped once I got to the part where it starts pushing ActionDan post-claim because it feels like a really weird way to approach the situation as scum of either variety

I don't have a good grasp of how sound that is as logic though

[Aureal]

My PoE is Gimli, Radical Rat and Freedom. I'm pretty sure Kira is among their number.

So, uh, I really would like to know how you came to this PoE.

[Aureal]

I'd like a more solid opinion on if today should be treated like it's ELo

It shouldn't exactly be- the game shouldn't end automatically even if we ended up 3:3 tomorrow because scum need to be able to identify each other to be coordinated enough to recognize that they control the game. It'd be a real shame if they just came out and admitted to being scum but oopsy, a follower is dead and it's actually 4:2.

[Aureal]

also dragon I know you're eager but considering kira didn't kill the detective you should not talk about who you think it is

I'm still pondering how true this is.

It's gonna be hard to better explain my Cuddle scumread without this talk.

[HighPrincessErinys]

Official Vote Count 2.01

The instrument to write with can be anything, e.g. cosmetics, blood, etc. as long as it can write directly onto the note and remains as legible letters.

Execution

With

8

votes in play, it takes

5

to execute someone.

Gimli

(1): CUDDLE TIME

Klick

(1): Radical Rat

Not Voting

(6): Little Will o' Wisp, HighPrincessErinys, Aureal, Gimli, Klick, Freedom

Deadline:

(expired on 2024-03-07 19:09:15).

Grace Period: No one can be hammered for (expired on 2024-03-01 19:09:15)

Mod Notes: Even i won't know if invisible ink will work.

did misa ever kill someone by writing in her death note with like eyeliner or lipstick, this one wonders

[Gimli]

also dragon I know you're eager but considering kira didn't kill the detective you should not talk about who you think it is

I'm still pondering how true this is.

It's gonna be hard to better explain my Cuddle scumread without this talk.

if you wanna go ahead go ahead I didn't mean to stop anyone

just pointing at a maybe bad thing because having detective alive on d3 is fundamental

[Gimli]

Every time I've gone back to reeval HPE I've stopped once I got to the part where it starts pushing ActionDan post-claim because it feels like a really weird way to approach the situation as scum of either variety

I don't have a good grasp of how sound that is as logic though

sometimes scum just play bad

not knowing how to react can be one of these things

HPE seems distant and I don't think it put any kira solving content forward this gameday

[Gimli]

HPE, what do you think of radical rat?

[HighPrincessErinys]

HPE, what do you think of radical rat?

Probably need to devote some real time to reading and analyzing but my surface-level comments would be that they seem... confrontational? They've had a few conversations with others with an argument directly counter to the other's argument. It feels kinda towny from skimming, and that along with them never voting for AD who we can at this point verify as Assistant kinda makes me think they're town?

[HighPrincessErinys]

Most interested in Freedom rn, as far as votes might go.

[Klick]

HPE, what do you think of radical rat?

Probably need to devote some real time to reading and analyzing but my surface-level comments would be that they seem... confrontational? They've had a few conversations with others with an argument directly counter to the other's argument. It feels kinda towny from skimming, and that along with them never voting for AD who we can at this point verify as Assistant kinda makes me think they're town?

My problem with clearing Rat off of this basis is that this game exists and is described by what you've just said

[HighPrincessErinys]

8919 posts

[Klick]

Skim Rat ISO

[Radical Rat]

HPE, what do you think of radical rat?

Probably need to devote some real time to reading and analyzing but my surface-level comments would be that they seem... confrontational? They've had a few conversations with others with an argument directly counter to the other's argument. It feels kinda towny from skimming, and that along with them never voting for AD who we can at this point verify as Assistant kinda makes me think they're town?

My problem with clearing Rat off of this basis is that this game exists and is described by what you've just said

This is misleading because that's a multiball game.