Mini Theme 2328: Death Note: Second Page. Day 3!

[Klick]

How's the hydra townie? I think trying to throw shade over Rat's joke is pretty sus actually. It can be harder for scum to pick up on jokes, that really seemed tone deaf.

You should understand hydra dissonance lol

In what universe will this hydra not be dissonant

[Klick]

VOTE: HPE

[Klick]

What does my post have to do with that
I'm not really talking about Aureal but I am talking about Doctor Drew

[Klick]

no u

[Klick]

Surely you learned from last time that this route doesn't actually get that exciting

[Klick]

You should be used to me taking an Innocent Until Proven Guilty approach to speaking in Mafia

[Klick]

It feels like it has no practical bearing on your alignment whatsoever
You could do it as either alignment

[Klick]

XD
If I let loose a little bit then the fire spreads too easily, and I have to waste too much time containing things instead of having my own fun.

You've just gotta be patient!

[Klick]

T-Bone can be town

[Klick]

The big hydra is town
If you think their presence is net negative you should probably talk to and about other slots

[Klick]

The big hydra is town
If you think their presence is net negative you should probably talk to and about other slots

Tell me about this conclusion.

They look like four ducks
They quack like four ducks

I am in the camp of moving the discussion away from the hydra that everyone thinks is dominating the discussion

[Klick]

I'm willing to expand on my thoughts on the CUDDLE TIME slot with the understanding that this is as far as I'm willing to take the discussion for at least like 24 hours; I don't want this to become the line of discourse that dominates my airwaves

In essence, I townread CUDDLE TIME because they've shown several instances of posting that has a clear focus on solving and making solving possible. This is from multiple heads. I don't believe the current goal from any of them is to get townread. There's an aggressive approach from them that seems to be trying to make plays happen early with the intent of drumming up info. This is very consistent from what I'd expect of town!Dragon and kind of town!Black as well.

[Klick]

T-Bone is town. I'm pretty sure I said this earlier, but last time it was a joke based on their previous post and this time it's more serious

[Klick]

I figured you wanted my insight for my-alignment reasons yes

[Klick]

So HPE, is ActionDan Kira or just the other Follower

[Klick]

So HPE, is ActionDan Kira or just the other Follower

Kira Followers don't know who the other follower is.............. Klick, you read the setup..................... right................................?

Yes

[Klick]

So HPE, is ActionDan Kira or just the other Follower

Hmmmmmmmmm

You think HPE wouldn't call so much attention to itself if it was Kira?

I think HPE is a Follower, not Kira

[Klick]

So HPE, is ActionDan Kira or just the other Follower

Hmmmmmmmmm

You think HPE wouldn't call so much attention to itself if it was Kira?

I think HPE is a Follower, not Kira

Yeah, I gathered you thought that. But why, then?

Just a feeling. It's only a 5% chance.

[Klick]

I'm willing to expand on my thoughts on the CUDDLE TIME slot with the understanding that this is as far as I'm willing to take the discussion for at least like 24 hours; I don't want this to become the line of discourse that dominates my airwaves

In essence, I townread CUDDLE TIME because they've shown several instances of posting that has a clear focus on solving and making solving possible. This is from multiple heads. I don't believe the current goal from any of them is to get townread. There's an aggressive approach from them that seems to be trying to make plays happen early with the intent of drumming up info. This is very consistent from what I'd expect of town!Dragon and kind of town!Black as well.

I've come to the same conclusion. I got what I needed to be able to read both black and dragon. I'm pretty familiar with them and I feel confident in reading them. They both replied in a way that I feel town them would. Do you have familiarity with T-Bone? Is he known as a very strong scum player?

I don't think I've played with T-Bone scum before but from what I understand he is a very strong scum player.

I still think he's town here though

[Klick]

My big question about this is why does it matter if they are follower or Kira? Even if they are follower and not Kira, voting them off is still good (just want to say this is from your point of view not mine, I don't have a read on hpe currently but I'll check after this)

Because HPE might let it slip that ActionDan is Kira

[Klick]

My big question about this is why does it matter if they are follower or Kira? Even if they are follower and not Kira, voting them off is still good (just want to say this is from your point of view not mine, I don't have a read on hpe currently but I'll check after this)

Because HPE might let it slip that ActionDan is Kira

This train of thought confuses me. Clearly you think HPE has likely

already

let it slip. So I don't understand what more there would be to gain here. We're not going to get confirmation of HPE being follower or not. And you saying to all of us that you think Dan could be Kira to HPE's follower, if true surely just makes them that much more careful to try not to look like that. I don't know why you would say it if you're only just thinking it's a possibility, so this doesn't feel like a real thought that you have and that distresses me.

The post you quoted is mostly me trying to answer Hu Tao with as little information as possible. Because several people at this point want to extract everything they can out of my reasoning before neither HPE nor ActionDan give an adequate response.

[Klick]

That post is the main reason I scumread HPE and I think it's a red herring

[Klick]

HPE should dead

[Klick]

Well, this one generally tries to mix up its approach at least a little every game, but also after tunneling hard on you last time and being wrong its time to see if doing the opposite will make me right.

sure it makes perfect sense

VOTE: HPE

ready to die for the cause sir
VOTE: HPE

Those who scumread hpe, why is this not a soft for gimli as Kira?

oh my god bruh it was a shitpost

In the world where you're a Follower and Gimli is Kira, it functions just fine as a soft with the guise of 'lol it's just a shitpost'
In other words, it's only a shitpost if you're town.

[Klick]

scumpool of (RR, AD, hu tao, HPE, tbone) seems fine for d1

@klick: can you elaborate on AD = kira read?

every other slot in my pool seems to be more inviting as a potential kira flip than HPE, from how I expect kira to play

To use your reads list as reference, I think Hu Tao and T-Bone both have a towny mindset at this point. My pool of likely scum at the moment is very similar to the one in your next post - {HPE, ActionDan, Drew, RR}. I think HPE is a likely Follower. Beyond that, ActionDan was a complete vibe check as someone I wasn't townreading, and I wanted to see what kind of response I'd get. I don't have anything solid to back up my read on ActionDan being Kira, it was sort of just a backwards gut read of 'if HPE is a Follower who feels about right as their Kira'.

I think both feel really awkward here compared to what I'd expect from them as town but that's 100% vibes and 0% logic. I like vibes though

[Klick]

Hey Klick, I've only skimmed so maybe I'm wrong, and it's also possible that my sense of time is all fucked up for real life reasons, but I'm pretty sure it's been more than 36 hours since you accused HPE of being AD's partner and so far neither one has responded to this in any substantial manner and I don't really understand what's the point of holding back your reasoning about this anymore. So could you please make your case for AD being HPE's Kira?

- Dragon

P.S. I am very busy IRL as you can tell by me being in only one game and not 3 and also moddong only one game and not 3 and also only posting in the afternoon rather than immediately when I wake up, so I'm sorry about my meh engagement these last two days and hopefully this evening I can post something substantial.

See above lol

[Klick]

What are you looking for Ratto

[Klick]

Whenever you're around I'd love to chat about the game, reads, the political climate, etc

[Klick]

Who else is on your shortlist of potential Kiras?

[Klick]

I thought the push on HPE was weak, and expressed as much, but what stuck out to me was your insistence on it being a red herring, and your supposition that Action Dan was Kira based on basically nothing. I wanted to wait and see how things developed, and then they just got worse.

Your reaction to HPE claiming a shitpost seemed to indicate you thought it WAS signaling Kira, but that doesn't quite align with your red herring claim earlier. I thought perhaps you might have been a Follower either misdirecting to protect Gimli, perhaps assuming HPE was the other partner and being worried someone else would interpret that as a signal, or potentially Dan's Follower, trying to do a reverse psychology, which would explain why you never actually voted Dan.

But then Gimli's suggestion that Kira won't look scummy combined with you being absent from his PoE pool due to "investigative depth" that doesn't exist, with you yourself describing your reads as vibe-based, made all of the pieces Klick into place.

You jumped at HPE because, as Kira, you're looking for these signals, and having seen something that you think looks like a signal but directed towards someone else, you tried to push that narrative. No matter whether it lands on Gimli or Dan, it's not you. Gimli's oddities would put him as a strong Follower candidate, and then Dragon immediately jumping on me as soon as I suggested I thought you were Kira... well I think he's overplayed the hand now.

So I suppose to answer your question, Klick, what I'm looking for... is justice.

I'm not sure why your assumption is that Kira wants to play this phase with what you see as weak, shaky reasoning

My intuition is the exact opposite - that a Kira in this situation would want to build up a framework that is hard to push against. Which probably explains my gut Kira read on ActionDan. I don't feel that strong of a like... conviction behind anything ActionDan is saying right now, and feel like what he's saying could just as easily be motivated by wanting to seem like he's doing something important as any actual scumhunting activity

[Klick]

'Framework' might not be an accurate word for what I'm trying to describe. I can't think of a perfectly accurate word for it.

But what I'm seeing is this:

I might have found Aureal's aggression and questioning towny if it weren't for her being in the wrong at every turn. It sours me.

Slightly related but flavor discussion makes me itchy as I can see it being used as an avenue to communicate to Kira who their followers are. I haven't seen anything explicit yet though.

As many have said Klick's entrance is doodoo.

@cuddles : I can't shake that your post 7 and 8 doesn't come from scum. Rest of your hydra's posting is fine.

.As for Klick he came in and engaged with a trivial post and his rejoinder was not germane

I guess a good way to describe my issue with all of the above is that they feel very *positional*. When I read them, they feel like they are posted with the intent of making it clear to the thread what ActionDan's position is on a number of topics. Kind of like a checklist.

On me specifically, I feel like ActionDan wants to express skepticism of me without actually committing to something resembling a vote or a scumread:

My big question about this is why does it matter if they are follower or Kira? Even if they are follower and not Kira, voting them off is still good (just want to say this is from your point of view not mine, I don't have a read on hpe currently but I'll check after this)

Because HPE might let it slip that ActionDan is Kira

You're welcome to share that.

My big question about this is why does it matter if they are follower or Kira? Even if they are follower and not Kira, voting them off is still good (just want to say this is from your point of view not mine, I don't have a read on hpe currently but I'll check after this)

Because HPE might let it slip that ActionDan is Kira

This train of thought confuses me. Clearly you think HPE has likely

already

let it slip. So I don't understand what more there would be to gain here. We're not going to get confirmation of HPE being follower or not. And you saying to all of us that you think Dan could be Kira to HPE's follower, if true surely just makes them that much more careful to try not to look like that. I don't know why you would say it if you're only just thinking it's a possibility, so this doesn't feel like a real thought that you have and that distresses me.

The post you quoted is mostly me trying to answer Hu Tao with as little information as possible. Because several people at this point want to extract everything they can out of my reasoning before neither HPE nor ActionDan give an adequate response.

I misread your post before. I thought you were directly saying you thought HPE slipped that I was Kira not that they have the chance to maybe do so. I would like to know what adequate response you are expecting? Because as far I can tell I'm not being accused of anything. If you had reasons to throw my name there instead of anyone else's then you're welcome to share them.

Like, in the last quote specifically it feels like there's an active effort to question my approach without stating an opinion on the incident. It feels very careful and unnatural to me. I feel like the focus is on ActionDan's position.

[Klick]

I think both feel really awkward here compared to what I'd expect from them as town but that's 100% vibes and 0% logic. I like vibes though

have we even played before

Yes
But I've also watched games you've played before, enough to be familiar-ish with your playstyle

[Klick]

I don't really see what you're seeing here. By play, Dan looks fine to me. My only real concern is the potential association you've made, in the event the game continues past your death.
[/quote]

The kind of evidence you've presented for believing I'm Kira doesn't seem to match your confidence

[Klick]

I don't really see what you're seeing here. By play, Dan looks fine to me. My only real concern is the potential association you've made, in the event the game continues past your death.

The kind of evidence you've presented for believing I'm Kira doesn't seem to match your confidence

(Fixed)

[Klick]

UNVOTE:

[Klick]

@Radical Rat

From the perspective of someone who knows I have a town Role PM here, let me provide the alternative hypothesis:

'Sketchy as hell with internal inconsistencies' is a common description of my early play over probably a majority of my recent games (though I contest the 'internal inconsistencies' part and posit that it's a result of a legitimately natural thought process). It's partly an active choice. There's a rationale behind it, primarily designed to produce the kind of early game content I'm seeking out. This is observable in several of my more recent games. I choose to be slightly esoteric early on often.

The players you see defending me have recent experience with me and are more familiar with my town play. They are looking at my play through a lens that recognises some parts of what I am doing and how it's beneficial, or at least how I view it as beneficial. That's why they're saying 'solving' and 'analysis' and you're saying 'what?'.

Could they specifically be the Followers to my Kira, defending me because I'm aligned with them and also happen to be players who are familiar with me and have an understanding of my play? Sure. But the 'understanding of my play' part is sufficient to explain their behaviour without them being aligned with me.

I also think your concept of what Followers would be doing with Kira doesn't make that much sense. Just a flat defense of Kira's play to any sort of criticism in the early game? It doesn't feel like that should be confidence-inspiring.

[Klick]

In Gimli's case, it's that his assessment of your actions was inconsistent with your own. Like it was a prepared thing he had to say, that didn't actually line up with what was happening.

For Dragon, it's the hypersensitivity. As soon as I voted you, suddenly I must be scum and my prodding at Gimli to determine his relationship with you is actually because he's my buddy. Didn't even try to ask questions and see if there's anything behind my push, just straight to the chainsaw. This is something that scum will frequently do by mistake with their partners in regular games, and is exacerbated here by the importance of keeping Kira specifically alive. It is also something I see scum get away with as "too scummy to be scum," which is never a concept I've been fond of.

When I initially voted you, it was a suspicion. When Dragon jumped on me for it, it was a confirmation.

Gimli's interpretation of my posting makes sense to me but that's probably not that helpful to you!

I feel like you're doing mental shortcuts to the simplest explanation and clinging onto it as like, your way of viewing the game. I'm not convinced it means you're scum, but it is similar to how you played out Cosmos. I'm inclined to think the way you're doing it here is towny. It feels more pure.

Beyond that, I feel like Dragon himself responded well to the bit about him. I feel like we have a mismatch in how we view Mafia fundamentals. I also think 'too scummy to be scum' is nonsense but that's because it assumes a general 'scummy' behavior and everyone's 'scummy' is different. But I think that's very different from what you're saying.

[Klick]

Reading Aureal's post: yes, jarring is exactly the word to describe that pivot.

- Dragon

And so was yours, lol

I'll consider your case later, my brain is breaking down at this point since I've been sitting here trying to figure out what people are thinking for way too long, it's giving me a headache and I need lunch and my initial feelings are that we're all just town getting jumpy because things feel too easy.

This is basically what I think yes
Most of the current speakers are town

[Klick]

HPE/ActionDan/Drew in some variety is my current default solve
I'll accept Gimli being a wildcard because I probably townread him even when he's scum

[Klick]

I feel like the things I've said to RR have gone in one ear and out the other

[Klick]

We are in the 70% world where I'm town trying to show you things that you are able to verify by looking into them
The assumptions you are making are valid when you don't have context but are superfluous when you do

[Klick]

Meh
All I can really say is that I disagree with your interpretation of Gimli's behavior and think your confidence is unjustified
I think you're probably town from this exchange fwiw!

[Klick]

Yeah sure
I care less about whether it's appropriate and more about whether it's coming from town or scum

[Klick]

It does feel like a pretty cheap way to try and gain favor as scum, especially if it has a high opinion of its scum game.

[Klick]

Meh
All I can really say is that I disagree with your interpretation of Gimli's behavior and think your confidence is unjustified
I think you're probably town from this exchange fwiw!

Can you show me the work why you think they are town?

Rat?
I think Rat's confidence reads as genuine and like a pretty strange scum approach

[Klick]

Meh
All I can really say is that I disagree with your interpretation of Gimli's behavior and think your confidence is unjustified
I think you're probably town from this exchange fwiw!

Can you show me the work why you think they are town?

Rat?
I think Rat's confidence reads as genuine and like a pretty strange scum approach

Yes I think they are town as well.

But you seemed to switch pretty quickly to them being a town read

What made you townread Rat?

[Klick]

What made you townread Rat?

Do you like answering questions with another question?

This is the second time I am asking for a detailed reasoning on why YOU think they are town

I've already answered that question? You didn't ask me it again, you just stated more vague suspicion of me regarding it. And so I followed up.

Your turn

[Klick]

'moving in a weird way' is a claim that I've already addressed. It's easy to state blanket suspicion on a style of play that isn't immediately easy to understand.

[Klick]

So what made you townread Rat?

[Klick]

Cool, so we townread Rat for essentially the same reasons

It shouldn't be that unreasonable that I decided Rat was town as a result of my chat with them, when you decided Rat was town as a result of my chat with them

[Klick]

I feel like the things I've said to RR have gone in one ear and out the other

Ok I will help you out.

How did you go from here...

Meh
All I can really say is that I disagree with your interpretation of Gimli's behavior and think your confidence is unjustified
I think you're probably town from this exchange fwiw!

And then two posts later go to here(your posts not total game posts).

360 isn't a statement of suspicion on Rat
If you look at my immediately preceding posts, 354 and 357 of mine suggest I'm already leaning towards Rat!town by that point

[Klick]

It was Rat's confidence when going back and forth with you that makes me think they are town.

And it is the way you wilted, like you knew you wouldn't be able to make them look bad since they were looking so town, so you had to do a hard left turn and somehow decide they are town.

Like I don't get how you post the first sentence and think 'yeah that's reasonable' and then post the second sentence and think 'yeah Klick had to SOMEHOW decide Rat was town' instead of me using, you know, the same evidence as you

[Klick]

Feel free to point at what part of my engagement with Radical Rat seems to have the goal of *making them look bad*
I feel like Rat's own assumption of me 'manipulating them into townreading me' has more merit as an idea than me trying to make them look scummy based on how that conversation developed
I was looking for direct engagement with Radical Rat and tried to flesh out their perspective and where it differed from my own

[Klick]

Anyway goodnight people

[Klick]

If Gimli is scum he's pushing all the right town buttons
I think this is just Gimli!town

[Klick]

I still think aureal is scum here. Something feels off about her.

Can you reach deeper into this if you think you can?

[Klick]

I can't remember if I've said this or not but I've gone off HPE!scum a bit

[Klick]

Can we vote ActionDan today
Or like maybe Drew but I feel like the appetite for that is lower but that's also kind of why I want it

[Klick]

I'm also fine with HPE now after re-reading it

me/klick/hpe/aureal/cuddle time townbloc

both followers and kira in rr/hu tao/drew/AD/will

@klick what do you think

I think the odds of 5 town in that set are pretty high yeah

[Klick]

I think Kira being in {ActionDan, Drew} and then there being some random Follower with them is a workable solve atm

[Klick]

lol

[Klick]

It was Rat's confidence when going back and forth with you that makes me think they are town.

And it is the way you wilted, like you knew you wouldn't be able to make them look bad since they were looking so town, so you had to do a hard left turn and somehow decide they are town.

Like I don't get how you post the first sentence and think 'yeah that's reasonable' and then post the second sentence and think 'yeah Klick had to SOMEHOW decide Rat was town' instead of me using, you know, the same evidence as you

That is possible, I did look back and saw some progression

This was the last thing you said to me

Your scumread on me and refusal to 'vote with me' is political

[Klick]

Who is Kay?

[Klick]

It was Rat's confidence when going back and forth with you that makes me think they are town.

And it is the way you wilted, like you knew you wouldn't be able to make them look bad since they were looking so town, so you had to do a hard left turn and somehow decide they are town.

Like I don't get how you post the first sentence and think 'yeah that's reasonable' and then post the second sentence and think 'yeah Klick had to SOMEHOW decide Rat was town' instead of me using, you know, the same evidence as you

That is possible, I did look back and saw some progression

This was the last thing you said to me

Your scumread on me and refusal to 'vote with me' is political

Well I don't really see Dan as scum, I don't like your interactions with Kay, and yes.....I saw the progression you made with Rat(which makes my scum read on you a little less strong)......but I still don't like the interaction you had with them......as I described earlier.

So you can call it whatever you want, but I just can't see myself voting with you here.

Also, as I said a few posts ago, I don't like Gimli's take on how we should find Kira, I didn't elaborate since I was hoping to here from him sooner......but seems so, contrived(I think that is the word I am looking for lol). Like he is purposely leaving out certain people on purpose.

Also is a variant of Lim all lurkers, which I always hate on D1.

So with you too kinda working in lockstep, no sir I am staying far away from that wagon

This sounds like a lot of poor excuses to be against the status quo

You're intentionally not looking into ActionDan
There's no one named 'Kay' in this game
And I've addressed the situation with Rat as far as it goes logically, and you're just kind of holding your hands up and going '...well it's bad anyway'.

If you're town then I don't know if you just actively distrust my play style or what. But your reasons for suspecting me are ill-defined and don't justify a blanket refusal to vote anywhere I'm voting without even looking into the guy.

[Klick]

In order to win a game of Mafia the members of the town have to work together. There aren't that many of us. If you're one of them, get with the program.

[Klick]

BUT

As someone said (I think Klick but maybe Gimli), Kira would be someone for whom there's not a lot of appetite today. Do you know for whom there's no appetite today? Gimli.

This is true in a very relative sense. More accurately, Kira is someone who
a) two other players in this game will be avoiding eliminating; and
b) will be trying to play in such a way that they avoid the elimination.

Those are the two things we're searching for when solving for Kira.

I think the

ideal

for Kira is to not receive heat today. But scum have limited control over the actions of town. Kira might receive heat anyway. It's a point to consider in the context of everything else that's going on.

(I also think I disagree that there's no appetite for Gimli - the appetite is just lower-influence than the main lines atm. You probably feel like there is less appetite because you are one of the players with an amount of appetite for it and aren't counting yourself. But you're not the only person who has been trying to posit the possibility of a Gimli lim.)

[Klick]

Hi Freedom

Aureal is the primary reason I told Gimli 'pretty high' instead of 'very high' earlier
I think I still strongly prefer ActionDan and think he's a very strong shot at hitting Kira
But if scum aren't going to let that go through then I'm willing to explore Aureal for a bit

[Klick]

I'm not CCing and I think ActionDan's claim looks genuine
I think HPE's reaction to the situation looks towny

[Klick]

My head is kind of removed from this game at the minute, sorry. I'm going to try and get something substantive out tonight before I go to sleep. I feel kind of lost for what to do in this situation.

[Klick]

ActionDan
HighPrincessErinys
Gimli

Radical Rat
Aureal
CUDDLETIME
Little Will o' Wisp
Freedom
Hu Tao

Is about where I'm at right this second but I'm feeling particularly unconfident

[Klick]

9.5 hours people

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Klick]

ActionDan
HighPrincessErinys
Gimli

Radical Rat
Aureal
CUDDLETIME
Little Will o' Wisp
Freedom
Hu Tao

Is about where I'm at right this second but I'm feeling particularly unconfident

Nice completely unsuspicious readlist which I'm sure you're going to explain, right?

What a strange comment considering your prior context in this game

[Klick]

I said I'd try but then I fell asleep and I've been at work since

I'm vaguely around at the minute, will be putting kids to bed soon

[Klick]

I don't think this realistically moves away from Hu vs Gimli unless we all have an epiphany

[Klick]

I can engage about my read on Gimli in a bit more depth if that's something people want but I'm annoyed by the inevitable partner accusations that will come with that line

[Klick]

It's a really basic 'I believe his solving has been genuine'

[Klick]

At several points I think Gimli's goals have basically been to think through the game and find what seems to him like a plausible solution
It feels natural

[Klick]

I've paid far less attention than I should have to who was amenable to an ActionDan elimination because it would make sense for at least one variant of scum to have been at least angling for jumping on that wagon

[Klick]

I don't think Gimli's recent posting is oriented towards survival in the short- or long-term

[Klick]

Can six votes land accurately on a new target with this little time?

[Klick]

I'm down to try something new but we'd likely need specifically ActionDan's explicit approval to make something like that happen and also have it land on Kira

[Klick]

I thought she wasn't a bad shot in the dark at Kira?

[Klick]

I agree that in concept this vote is most likely to land on scum with a flashwagon. But if we were going to flashwagon, I'd prefer the target at least be ActionDan-approved to be achievable

[Klick]

VOTE: Little Will o' Wisp

[Klick]

I agree that in concept this vote is most likely to land on scum with a flashwagon. But if we were going to flashwagon, I'd prefer the target at least be ActionDan-approved to be achievable

ActionDan is scumreading your townreads so like, good luck?

- Dragon

It's more likely that I'm wrong in my reads than that we'll get a good flashwagon elimination without ActionDan on-board

[Klick]

The difference between this and Open 902 and who the hell is willing to flash Willow in the first place?

There is like zero pre-existing appetite for a Willow wagon let alone a close-to-deadline Willow flashwagon.

Very perceptive of you

Hehe I like this post

[Klick]

To make Dragon's point more explicit: the wagons that don't have an appetite are paradoxically the ones that are more likely to contain Kira

If ActionDan specifically is on-board with that concept on a theoretical level then I see a world where we can make a flashwagon work

If not we probably need to just aim for most likely scum of any variety between Gimli and Hu

[Klick]

I thought she wasn't a bad shot in the dark at Kira?

Klick might be a bit sus

no u

[Klick]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Klick]

Right this moment I feel like the pool of likely Kira is something like {Freedom, Aureal, Radical Rat}

But Hu Tao feels more possible than Gimli or HPE

[Klick]

That's literally not true, I scumread Kyouko D1 and that's the one read you swapped out

[Klick]

ANYWAY

Why is Hu Tao scum

I've already given my thoughts on Hu Tao which are 'could semi-plausibly be Kira, more likely than Gimli'

I don't have a scum case but equally you think Gimli is town

[Klick]

I would like to entertain the possibility of klick being kira, with HPE as a follower, this gameday.

I think it's quite possible that I got pocketed and owned pretty hard by scum d1

X

[Klick]

If someone has knowledge that ActionDan was not the Assistant, I strongly believe they should claim that information now.

I don't think ActionDan was fakeclaiming, but I want to limit scum's ability to go back and say 'oh yeah I'm actually the Assistant'.

[Klick]

LOL, thanks for making it clear that I'm not Kira, Kira

I'm just a regular innocent high school genius who does normal innocent things like go on dates and eat potato chips

...and I guess this doesn't even really clear up whether Dan's claim was real or not, ugh.

What has made it clear that you're not Kira?

[Klick]

I still think cuddle time is pretty townie and D1 end of day isn't something that happens with how annoyed dragon was, if dragon was kira or a follower. I take these emotions to just point to town, and am happy to clear the slot for now. the other slots I have no idea

Naw, Dragon's end of day was terrible. I think unlikely to be Kira, but very likely to be a follower.

Who do you think is likely to be Kira considering how yesterday played out?

[Klick]

I think I hard disagree

Regardless, if we have no evidence to the contrary, I'm heavily inclined to just assume that ActionDan was really the Assistant
There's not actually a ton of reason for a Follower to claim like that

[Klick]

I think ActionDan makes no sense as a Follower, because realistically what he has done if he's Follower is 1. move the vote onto someone else other than him, a not-Kira, and 2. drawn the Kira kill towards a Follower instead of the Detective. It doesn't match his alignment's needs if he's scum. It does a lot more for an Assistant.

[Klick]

My PoE is Gimli, Radical Rat and Freedom. I'm pretty sure Kira is among their number.

...hard agree? This is basically where I'm at

I don't

think

it's the Gimli mindfuck route and I think RR and Freedom make more sense but I think healthy skepticism is probably called for there at this point

[Klick]

I'd like a more solid opinion on if today should be treated like it's ELo

[Klick]

I'm going to explicitly claim that I'm sitting on a not-insignificant amount of Skill-related info at the moment

[Klick]

I dont really understand your view of the game which makes it pretty hard to work with a theoretical town!Rat

[Klick]

And I don't understand everyone else's view of the game, where this somehow isn't obvious.

I gave it to you on a platter, you just didn't like it and decided to ignore it

[Klick]

Anyway, I'm not scum of any variety and I'd like to discuss the alternative with people who haven't made their mind up

I'm considering just claiming what info I have because of the current circumstances not exactly being ideal

[Klick]

I think we as a group simply don't have the tech necessary to make proper reads in a game with limited relationships between scum lol

[Klick]

Every time I've gone back to reeval HPE I've stopped once I got to the part where it starts pushing ActionDan post-claim because it feels like a really weird way to approach the situation as scum of either variety

I don't have a good grasp of how sound that is as logic though

[Klick]

HPE, what do you think of radical rat?

Probably need to devote some real time to reading and analyzing but my surface-level comments would be that they seem... confrontational? They've had a few conversations with others with an argument directly counter to the other's argument. It feels kinda towny from skimming, and that along with them never voting for AD who we can at this point verify as Assistant kinda makes me think they're town?

My problem with clearing Rat off of this basis is that this game exists and is described by what you've just said

[Klick]

Skim Rat ISO

[Klick]

HPE, what do you think of radical rat?

Probably need to devote some real time to reading and analyzing but my surface-level comments would be that they seem... confrontational? They've had a few conversations with others with an argument directly counter to the other's argument. It feels kinda towny from skimming, and that along with them never voting for AD who we can at this point verify as Assistant kinda makes me think they're town?

My problem with clearing Rat off of this basis is that this game exists and is described by what you've just said

This is misleading because that's a multiball game.

It is not misleading in this circumstance

specifically because it is a multiball game

[Klick]

Kira plays this game like they are scum in a multiball game

[Klick]

The specific similarity I'm seeing here is Rat going full aggro refusal to be convinced otherwise on their opinion. I can't remember the exact details of how they did that in Cosmos (and I'm about to go check it to see myself). But I remember Rat doing exactly that in Cosmos, me thinking it was really fishy at the time, and then it relating to them being scum when they flipped.

Let's go see the context

[Klick]

But Kira doesn't want to eliminate their Followers, nor do Followers want to eliminate each other, nor do Followers want to eliminate Kira.

In multiball, I want the other scumteam dead.

I'm not convinced any of these things actually detract from my point

[Klick]

I also don't know why you're arguing to correct me on this point when you're 100% convinced I'm scum

[Klick]

No, I'm using it to say you shouldn't be cleared for bad invalid reasons and you're getting super combative over it

[Klick]

[url=viewtopic.php?p=13578589#p13578589[/url]

Everything Rat posted on this day phase, where they were practically confirmed scum

The confidence with which they presented a worldview that was just flat-out implausible and tried to argue out alternatives is what makes me think they're capable of what HPE is seeing as 'confrontational' when they are scum.

[Klick]

Also worth noting that Radical Rat spends the whole previous day phase before that hard-pushing for my slot's elimination (Dingle Dangle Scarecrow) with confidence, which is probably why this sticks in my head so strongly as evidence that RR can express that kind of confidence as scum

[Klick]

No, I'm using it to say you shouldn't be cleared for bad invalid reasons and you're getting super combative over it

I don't think just pointing out why the point you're making isn't relevant is being super combative

Do you think you aren't being super combative in regards to me here generally? Or are you just arguing for it in this specific circumstance for the semantic win

[Klick]

Note for the peanut gallery that I was town in Cosmos Mafia

[Klick]

lol ok.

[Klick]

No, I'm using it to say you shouldn't be cleared for bad invalid reasons and you're getting super combative over it

Are you actually scumreading Rat? I think they're pretty likely to be town.

I don't know? I feel like the reasons for Rat seeming town aren't that valid. It doesn't help that I know they're hard pushing town through. Why do you read them town here?

[Klick]

spazzy

I know you don't intend it in that way but could you please try not to use this word

[Klick]

Gimli tbh I vibe with about half your reads.

What is it about Aureal that makes you think she wouldn't care as scum?
I generally agree with you about Dragon
I'm surprised you don't have more defined opinions on Wisp. I feel like Wisp's approach has been super polarising especially his entrance to today

[Klick]

I don't think Drew was that towny

[Klick]

I'll read this when I get home but I like what you're cooking

[Klick]

In my heart of hearts I think Rat is more likely to be town here which just leaves me really annoyed

[Klick]

To be honest Gimli, I don't feel very much about your Hu-Drew connection. It feels... plausible? But it doesn't feel that powerful.

[Klick]

My current solve isn't confident or convincing and I feel like advocating for it would just make whoever I'm correct about start turning against me and get me eliminated today, which is less than ideal

I think Freedom is a good shout for Kira

[Klick]

My gth guess is 5:3 atm

[Klick]

...that is quite funny lol

[Klick]

I had half a post typed up throughout this evening with reevaluation in response to Gimli but I think looking at Hu Tao's ISO will yield more results

The tl;dr of it is that Rat and Aureal are my two biggest townreads and that shouldn't change with the new info

[Klick]

Okay I was gonna have him as town but if he can make those kind of posts as scum, then I shouldn't.

T-Bone can you send me a random scum game of yours?

I think this points pretty strongly away from Wisp

[Klick]

I take back my t bone Town read cause I can se him saying that stuff as scum as well now that I looked at his scum game.

She makes a point of reinforcing it here

[Klick]

I still think it's Aureal but that won't happen. I guess my next chance is VOTE: Gimli

I think Gimli is realistically likely enough to go over when this vote is made that there's no real benefit for Hu Tao to vote their Kira like this

[Klick]

I think we're looking at either Freedom or CUDDLE TIME as Hu Tao's Kira

VOTE: Freedom

[Klick]

Willow said that Aureal visited us N1. That confirms her as follower (since if she were Kira we'd be dead and if she were town she couldn't visit). Aureal wouldn't visit someone who's Kira, nor someone she thought was vanilla. Personally I feel like I spewed our slot as not-detective on Day 1, so it's highly possible that Aureal thought we were the second follower actually.

And I think this actually spews Gimli as town and males Klick and Freedom/Drew somewhat more likely to be Kira. Because Day 1 I was pushing Gimli heavily and I doubt Aureal would've thought we were a follower if Gimli was Kira. On the other hand I defended Klick heavily and soft defended Drew.

So I am going to be working under the assumption that Kira is within Drew/Klick 80-90% of the time here.

- Dragon

Agreed

[Klick]

Read my Day 2 posts with the context that I used Access to Files on Aureal Night 1 and saw that her name was fake. I spent most of the day trying to decide whether Aureal was Follower or Detective. I looked at Dan/Aureal interactions Saturday evening and decided Aureal in particular played it like Detective.

[Klick]

Hello, gob. How much of the game have you read?

[Klick]

I have read the vote counts.

I have my reads in order. Ready to rock.

This setup makes stuff really different but i can adapt it.

Anyway ill see what will o says and if it agrees with what i want to do then cool

You can skip it, there's not really anything of interest in Will's ISO


The most interesting thing of note is 967 by Radical Rat, which confirms that Hu Tao was a Follower. Then the best place you can get reads is from Hu Tao's ISO.

[Klick]

I don't think we're in the Rat!scum world

I also think gob'a entrance is fake af today

[Klick]

I see that you care more about that post than the one I pinged you in previously

[Klick]

Gob's primary concern atm is expressing ignorance of the game state

[Klick]

Oh okay I'll just take your word for it

[Klick]

VOTE: HPE

I'd like opinions on this post forward, on how Aureal and Hu Tao interacted in regards to the HPE wagon and what it could indicate for HPE!Kira

I don't have time to explore it fully right now but I'm skimming it before my work meeting

[Klick]

I think they both kind of defend HPE to various degrees
Hu Tao more passively, Aureal more upfront

[Klick]

I started reading from that post onwards and kinda think Drew is towny in his interaction with me
But Drew is good at scum

[Klick]

freedom and gob have been both very lackadaisical and this one doesn't super recall anyone super caring about or defending the slot so we can pppppppppppppppppppprobably remove gob from the kira pool? genuinely seems like he doesn't know what the fuck is going on which would probably not be the case if he repped into scumslot

People not caring about the slot doesn't disqualify from Kira if they weren't in serious danger
The only time the slot faced real pressure was EoD yesterday and that was dissolved by the Detective before Aureal could have an impact

We COULD try to analyse Aureal's interaction with the Freedom pressure around that time?

[Klick]

Black always has it out for me for no reason

Is Cuddle Time clear HPE?

For CUDDLE TIME to be Kira, Aureal would have had to intentionally use her investigative ability on Kira instead of on someone useful. So she would have had to specifically be playing around the Detective targeting her and throwing away the utility of her investigative role.

So not clear, but very unlikely to be scum.

[Klick]

My concern is that you are feigning ignorance with the explicit intention of trying to cheese townreads out of it today, because if you're scum you a) would have needed a somewhat informed perspective to make the objectively correct kill, and b) would quite need the cheese because your slot is in a bad spot based on yesterday's context

I'd appreciate if you tried to get a decent grasp on the day's events to alleviate these concerns

[Klick]

ATTENTION EVERYONE!

As the detective leading the investigation, I have an announcement to make: Aureal is, without a shadow of a doubt, a follower of Kira.

Thus, it is my "professional" opinion that we should start considering Radical Rat as our prime suspect in the Kira investigation.

Thank you for listening!

I should also add: Aureal targeted Cuddles last night. This alone proves Cuddles isn't Kira. And with how Aureal was pushing follower!Cuddles, we can safely say they aren't a follower either.

Here's the answer to your query though

[Klick]

I haven't been unkind
I'm understandably frustrated by the current situation and want to solve for your slot, which is mostly empty but also viable as Kira

[Klick]

VOTE: gob

I don't see myself voting anywhere else

[Klick]

Gimli isn't scum and HPE can have it if it's scum

[Klick]

Black I'm biased but I generally disagree with every +Kira point you have for me being things that make me more likely Kira

More specifically, I think you have a specific idea of how Aureal!Follower would think that is mismatched with how she was likely thinking

[Klick]

I'm finding gob's lack of interest in actually familiarising himself with the game's facts and mechanics without trying to squeeze cheesy town points out of it incredibly off-putting. The game is already wonky enough to solve as-is.

I think based on D1 interactions there's an outside chance of HPE being Kira. But I'm not that interested in exploring that route if no one else is inclined towards that. HPE reads as town today to me anyway.

[Klick]

If anyone wants my opinion on anything in particular then feel free to ask. Otherwise I don't have much to add myself
Maybe I'll wake up in a better mood tomorrow and have more I want to engage with

[Klick]

I don't think Gimli makes sense as Kira for several reasons, both relational and individual
I'm willing to get into those if that's something you want but it seems like we agree that Gimli!Kira is unlikely

[Klick]

hastily going for "yep, its gob, kill this guy" is how you lose the game

This implies you care about winning but you don't really seem to be showing any interest in figuring out who Kira is. I'm not really seeing any sense of urgency from you or desire to put this puzzle together here at the end

Maybe not urgency but this one isn't sure how you can deny it isn't atleast TRYING to do something here, if not very committal about it. This one doesn't like how people are just gravitating towards gob for being useless and unaware because, yeah, it's super sus, but there's probably gonna be more to finding Kira here than surface level "this slot isn't trying, kill it" reads.

If gob /is/ scum, what else is there?
This play matches with how I'd expect gob!scum to play, based on prior experience.

On the other hand, Gimli super clears the bar on towniness. The question is whether you're Kira, or whether both you and Gimli are town and therefore gob is Kira.

I lean towards the latter, but don't think the former is impossible.

[Klick]

I'm finding gob's lack of interest in actually familiarising himself with the game's facts and mechanics without trying to squeeze cheesy town points out of it incredibly off-putting. The game is already wonky enough to solve as-is.

I think based on D1 interactions there's an outside chance of HPE being Kira. But I'm not that interested in exploring that route if no one else is inclined towards that. HPE reads as town today to me anyway.

there have been like 3 irl days i have been able to play in this game. I have been busy with work in those days.

Sorry im not playing on your guys’ timeline. Im trying to give what i can but i see its not being appreciated

also i still think klick is kira

I work full-time and have children. You have had a full night phase to familiarise yourself with a game you chose to replace into, with complex mechanics. If you're Kira, you almost certainly did use that time.

Thanks to the way you've chosen to play this, the question is now 'is gob faking not having read the mechanics'. And I believe you would choose to play like this as scum.

That's not an unreasonable thing to think here. It's also obnoxious to deal with. I'm sure you can understand that

[Klick]

two votes on gob and a very quiet aureal

I don't like this actually. Do you really think Aureal's silence implicates gob as scum?

it was descriptive of threadstate more than anything but I wonder if with two votes going the wrong way aureal might start to lurk for a hammer instead of posting

(I had just woken up)

This probably makes sense regardless of gob's alignment

[Klick]

aureal is a lot of fun

Oh never mind, you're not actually paying attention to me after all, I already told you I'm not getting baited into any alignment-spewing hammers.

thats in your mind, yes?

you think one of us has calling for time?

If Gimli was Kira, I think the second message would have come before the first one

[Klick]

aureal is a lot of fun

Oh never mind, you're not actually paying attention to me after all, I already told you I'm not getting baited into any alignment-spewing hammers.

thats in your mind, yes?

you think one of us has calling for time?

If Gimli was Kira, I think the second message would have come before the first one

I don't get it

If you're scum, the reason you brought up Calling For Time in the first place was to get Aureal to avoid putting down a vote for quickhammer

But if you were scum, you wouldn't have wanted to leave the five minutes between your two posts, during which Aureal could have decided you were around and put down a vote

[Klick]

Like, if you are town, and you think i am scum. For a moment consider i am town. Even if you are going to lim me here, at least ask me some kinda question, throw me some kinda bone, like give me a map/guide. Hold my hand a bit. I want to provide whatever you guys need to townread me so we can find Kira together.

Already did, you declined

[Klick]

I think if you were town you'd be telling us we're bad a lot more, and also shouting that HPE or myself or whoever is scum, instead of gently suggesting it while leaving open all possibilities

[Klick]

I've been Gimli'd

GG scum, all three of you played this well

[Klick]

If you knew Rat's meta, you'd know that's well within their bounds as a scum player

[Klick]

If you knew Rat's meta, you'd know that's well within their bounds as a scum player

I do still think that multiball doesn't apply here, and I can pull similar tunnels as Town, but yeah, I was really worried you'd be able to remind enough people of that to turn things around. Which is indeed why I got "regularly combative" about it, though I hope I wasn't too frustrating to deal with

I have zero qualms with your play and smiled quite a bit when I saw your post about 6-2

It was frustrating! But that was part of your job

[Klick]

Meta is incredibly strong but also most uses of it are poor