Mini 2331 - Touhou UPick: Anonymous Edition (Game Over)

[Yuuka Kazami]

i particularly don't really understand why town koishi would say everything they've said but then vote for me and ichirin instead of sanae

I do not believe in solo voting pet scumreads because I don't think there is any point to it. Solo votes are essentially useless. No mafia is ever going to feel "pressured" off a solo vote, you're essentially giving up your voting power for no gain. A game state with 1 or 2 votes everywhere is a game that's going nowhere because mafia are never in danger of feeling pressure to do anything.

I am not "sure" Sanae is mafia; I only present my thoughts as I have them, if some people decide to listen to me and want to wagon Sanae, that's useful information and then I will likely vote there because then there's a real threat. If people are dismissive of my reads, so be it, more likely than not just on pure probability I am wrong and its not an avenue worth pursuing.

This is wrong. But like, I'm not the wrong police.

[Yuuka Kazami]

VOTE: Aya

[Ichirin Kumoi]

Needle has moved, everyone mentioned showed up. It's that shrimple.

Are you taking credit for time passing and people having time to post?

Yeah.

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

seems like some people can't handle the kagerou style

[Kaguya Houraisan]

And hey, here's Kaguya, so it CLEARLY did something.

I contracted touchgrassitis, Eirin says it's permanent

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

The Kagerou Townblock Trio :

Marisa / Kaguya / Reisen

i swear i have my reasons

I wanna hear about this from Kagerou.

i've already explained a bit the thoughts behind it but sure what's bugging you?

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

also about the Marisa / Kaguya hood, how substantially have you talked in it Kaguya?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

also about the Marisa / Kaguya hood, how substantially have you talked in it Kaguya?

Marisa/Sanae hood, not Marisa/Kaguya

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

oh whoops

my brain is really not cooperating

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I feel like most of the chaos this game can be attributed to people mixing up names

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

Making a readlists cause reading the thread is not working out

Besties

Marisa Kirisame - I could go into details but like she's just being obvtown

Eternity Larva - The second obvtown slot

Kaguya Houraisan - A common feeling i have with Kaguya posts is that she's making them for herself and not really for an audience, her overall play has also been decently protown

Reisen Udongein Inaba - maintaining that the Ascetic claim is prolly town, some individual posts like 314 or 313 i really like

Headpats

Ichirin Kumoi - I liked how sie played around the flashwagon, i hear the points about it sounding like TMI / scum anger

Yuuka Kazami - not saying that rude 100% equal good but she certainely feels confident in what she's doing

Koishi Komeiji - acting mildly towny

For later

Sanae Kochiya - Scum leaning but that read is on hold for either substantial agreement / me seeing something more direct to push

Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson eyebrow

Aya Shameimaru - struggling to read through the gimmick right now

Tenshi Hinanawi - ok so maybe this is more a null read but like i kinda completely forgot who this was so not the greatest look i think

Shoot on sight

Clownpiece - I'm starting to really feel dumb for this read but clown piece is playing like how i feel a good scum player would play, will elaborate more but right now i'm not in the mood

Daiyousei - I guess i thought she had more posts than she did but under the gimmick there isn't a lot of info, her recent 349 i don't really know what to make of it so that's a work for future Kagerou

[Reisen Udongein Inaba]

Not game advancing but I really like the dynamic of Yuuka being fine with murdering everyone and Marisa is the polar opposite. Made me giggle.

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

Not game advancing but I really like the dynamic of Yuuka being fine with murdering everyone and Marisa is the polar opposite. Made me giggle.

this is very much the most important post so far this game

i think the weebs call this a "potential ship"

[Eternity Larva]

i will be fairly inactive through Monday, other than a few opportunities to post here and there

i plan to reread the game upon my return because i am concerned i have too many townreads and the people i've been not-town reading keep saying things that make me doubt myself which is annoying

i am feeling good about Clownpiece, Sanae, and Marisa for town, in that order

Ichirin is also close to this tier but not quite to the level of the three listed above, for the townie reaction to their wagon that Koishi is still desperately trying to get me to concede could come from scum

i am leaning town on Yuuka still but to be fair this read probably deserves more in depth reevaluation

Tenshi had a solid and imo townie defense to some pressure earlier but has done next to nothing since, so gun-to-head town but i will need more from her to cement that one way or another

Kaguya, Reisen, and Aya are slots i feel nothing about and will be one of my focuses upon reread. i will say i had even had some townpings from Reisen and Aya but nothing strong enough in either direction to make me commit

Dai and Koishi continue to mirror each other when it comes to how i feel about them, as indicated preivously, their early questions and one-off posts came across as surface level and a way to look engaged with the game without contributing anything. however Koishi has dulled that suspicion a bit with our interaction about Ichirin (even though i am growing irritated with being asked the same question in different ways over and over again >_<).

on a similar note i thought Dai's most recent post was great and conveyed the thoughts i found difficult to articulate about Kagerou. basically Koishi and Dai's body of work overall leans scum, but there have been a couple glimmers of towny-ness that shake my confidence

My only fairly solid scum read at this point is Kagerou and even that's pretty...loose? there are some posts that made me feel good on a tone level but i agree with Dai about the bulk of the ISO is pretty fluffy and i see Kagerou has over fifty posts but their actual impact this game does not at all correlate with what i expect based on their high level of activity

from what i can tell there also hasn't been much in terms of reads outside of the Clownpiece scum read (i now see the reads list provided with some interesting takes that i will look into more when i return) which she pretty much refused to elaborate on, and the reasoning she did provide also never sat well with me to begin with and came from the first page. it's difficult for me to buy that into the fact that her opinion on Clownpiece has not changed or evolved since the beginning of the game, especially since Clownpiece is my largest town read, which leads me to believe she is just holding onto it because she needs a strong opinion that goes against the grain

those are all my thoughts for now, please feel free to poke at or ask questions about anything. i am thinking this will be a game where i focus on identifying and locking in town reads and just pushing to eliminate within 'what's left'

VOTE: Kagerou Imaizumi

[Eternity Larva]

@Kagerou i know you said reading the thread is difficult right now but i am most interested in your detailed reads on Clownpiece and Sanae when you get around to it

[Eternity Larva]

i think it would be safer for scum to opt for an appeasing approach in that situation instead of antagonize everyone voting hir and characterize the pressure as an "assault", lol

whereas i buy that frustration from town who is in the midst of a catchup and receives three votes out of nowhere, i can see how that would be demoralizing after returning to the game after being absent for a large chunk of it

sure, it's not impossible to be scum fabricating that reaction to seem town, but it's pretty aggressive for potential scum who has practically zero footing in the game

I'm not saying Ichi is mafia faking frustration, my point was how do you differentiate between scum frustration and town frustration?

For example if Ichi is mafia and Ichi doesn't think she did anything wrong but got hit with three quick votes, Ichi!scum could also feel frustrated about how unfair it is.

I'm asking why do you think this frustration is indicative of town frustration rather than just general frustration with the game state?

the difference is that frustrated scum has incentive to control themselves and temper their reaction in that situation, frustrated town does not (or at least, has LESS incentive to do so). scum are concerned about survival and antagonizing your wagoners is one of the worst ways to get them off your back, so i guess the way she channeled her frustration does not really align with the mindset i'd expect scum to have. i would still expect genuinely frustrated scum to manipulate the situation in their favor, and i do not sense any sort of manipulation or utilization of that frustration to gain an upper hand in this case

yes, scum frustration exists. it is not impossible that Ichi's frustration comes from scum. what i am trying to convey is that i am leaning town on her reaction based on on the things i've pointed out previously

i don't really know what more you want on this point, i feel like we're going in circles and i'm explaining the same thing in different ways over and over again

[Daiyousei]

Needle has moved, everyone mentioned showed up. It's that shrimple.

Are you taking credit for time passing and people having time to post?

ichirin's a stand user! stand users have bizarre powers sometimes @_@

[Daiyousei]

sorry, just a great bit of fairy humor

i am down with yuuka's vote for aya! i can't tell if aya is being intentionally do-nothing or if it's just roleplaying a character that claims she tries to not get involved in stuff because reporters shouldn't make the news, but even if it's the second one the player should know the character always ends up getting involved anyway

i particularly don't really understand why town koishi would say everything they've said but then vote for me and ichirin instead of sanae

I do not believe in solo voting pet scumreads because I don't think there is any point to it. Solo votes are essentially useless. No mafia is ever going to feel "pressured" off a solo vote, you're essentially giving up your voting power for no gain. A game state with 1 or 2 votes everywhere is a game that's going nowhere because mafia are never in danger of feeling pressure to do anything.

I am not "sure" Sanae is mafia; I only present my thoughts as I have them, if some people decide to listen to me and want to wagon Sanae, that's useful information and then I will likely vote there because then there's a real threat. If people are dismissive of my reads, so be it, more likely than not just on pure probability I am wrong and its not an avenue worth pursuing.

hmm...i don't think i can agree with this specific gameplay approach, but i guess it's not an unreasonable conclusion to reach from the more basic premise of "the only vote that matters is the last one", which it feels like we might agree on? i guess i personally just don't feel any pressure from relatively empty votes, even if multiple people are voting for me - fairies are used to being hated, after all! though i get that you famously don't like being hated, so maybe that's where the difference comes

(ed. note: this is not a hated claim)

i don't really have much to say in response to 385 because there isn't much to respond to in the first place >_> i do find it kinda funny that kagerou acknowledges my post about them in a way that just adds to the point i was making, as does the rest of the second half of their post

[Yuuka Kazami]

Reisen, Marisa have gone up slightly.

I have reservations about larva. But it’s probably paranoia.

Samae being in a neighborhood with Marisa doesn’t make me feel better or worse.

[Koishi Komeiji]

hmm...i don't think i can agree with this specific gameplay approach, but i guess it's not an unreasonable conclusion to reach from the more basic premise of "the only vote that matters is the last one", which it feels like we might agree on? i guess i personally just don't feel any pressure from relatively empty votes, even if multiple people are voting for me - fairies are used to being hated, after all! though i get that you famously don't like being hated, so maybe that's where the difference comes

I don't really think it matters if you feel pressure - the point is that Ichi felt pressure - gave a reaction - people interacted - some defended her, some pushed her. Yuuka called her mean names and Ichi claimed she was under assault etc etc. These are all more meaningful interactions than if I just randomly sat my vote on some random scumread. I like wagons and I like actions. I'm not saying none of these wagons can go through and we're just voting for the sake of voting - there has to be some plausible threat of death to make the stakes real.

[Koishi Komeiji]

the difference is that frustrated scum has incentive to control themselves and temper their reaction in that situation, frustrated town does not (or at least, has LESS incentive to do so). scum are concerned about survival and antagonizing your wagoners is one of the worst ways to get them off your back, so i guess the way she channeled her frustration does not really align with the mindset i'd expect scum to have. i would still expect genuinely frustrated scum to manipulate the situation in their favor, and i do not sense any sort of manipulation or utilization of that frustration to gain an upper hand in this case

That's fair but the basis of your read is an assumption of competency that is p questionable. Not all scum players play "well" or predictably - I'd even go so far as to argue that because her stratagem is working - for example the wagon on her has stalled, people are defending her for her reaction that her play was the correct one to make if she is mafia. I don't feel the need to keep arguing in circles with you on this point - feel free to get in some last words if you want but I'm going to just lodge this in agree to disagree in my head so as to not have an endless conversation about this.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I do think you're p townie and you want to be "right" on this point.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I did not call them mean names.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I did imply in jest that they had a mental illness though due to their strange perspective, which was inappropriate and I apologize for that. It was in poor taste.

[Yuuka Kazami]

As for whether Ichi is scum, I'm slightly less inclined to think so, but only slightly.
I think Ichi's angle is unusual in terms of defense and just presuming that certain tactics will work to stall suspicion is making the assumption that an action always results in an outcome that someone wants. most players here, I think, have some experience in mafia and know how to defend themselves for the most part. So I actually do think Ichi knows what they're doing and what they're trying to do is live and that their perspective is likely exaggerated. It's hard for me to take their accusation they were assaulted as anything but a joke with a pinch of truth to it. Something, that based on how I asked and they answered they were aware of the humor of the situation.

This actually did not work well because they made that joke and then played it as serious after. They are not really concerned with the truth in this regard, but like all mafia players who have been wrong enough to know better, it could simply be their quirk.
Something is indeed, up with them though. Their argument that they wanted a single question to be answered before they were miseliminated was roundly made fun of subtly and otherwise and doesn't make any sense from the perspective of an experienced player, perhaps they are the emotional type.