Mini 2331 - Touhou UPick: Anonymous Edition (Game Over)

[Yuuka Kazami]

although this game kinda is a headache

i'm struggling to see how Kaguya makes this kill when she would be very much aware it strongly points to her

Doesn't it strongly point to me?
The neighborhood shenanigans made them suddenly uniquely vulnerable and then they took steps to rectify that with a game solve.

[Yuuka Kazami]

although this game kinda is a headache

i'm struggling to see how Kaguya makes this kill when she would be very much aware it strongly points to her

Doesn't it strongly point to me?
The neighborhood shenanigans made them(kaguya) suddenly vulnerable and then they took steps to rectify that with a game solve.

Kaguya, why did clown piece tell you they were a cop?

[Yuuka Kazami]

The PGO thing is weird when I had decent reason just to shoot clown.
I wouldn't because I'm a numbers dude and I'd have shot Aya.
But you know.

[Yuuka Kazami]

You popped out of the lake made that whole Kaguya thing and then you're basically voting with Kaguya.

Oh wow, if I had actually read your post instead of getting mad I'd have noticed that you prefaced your post with, gee it sure is inconvenient that my scum read is scum reading my scum read.

...But why can't they just be bussing? No, this isn't a mocking thing.

It's not a surprise that everyone's arrows were pointing at me, so it's not like this is a revelation. Mostly, I would expect more hesitation because it was the obvious answer and scum would presumably know it was the obvious answer.

I mean outside of Aya/Koishi
who would you think scum would shoot? They're the third best option.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I think the play is

VOTE: reisen

How poisoned is my slot rn btw?

Sound out, but don't think this could be reasonably AI.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Dai and Kaguya, have you two been in a neighborhood since the game started?

[Yuuka Kazami]

I think the play is

VOTE: reisen

i'm interested but also tell me more

it's weird how there's basically no options that are really that appealing in the PoE, finding scumreads is hard

please voice your suspicions about why each player might be scum or why each player might be town.

[Yuuka Kazami]

I am sad at Kaguya's game solve.
I swear, every time I get excited about someone with a game solve they end up having me in it.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Dai and Kaguya, have you two been in a neighborhood since the game started?

Yeah we're both from the misty lake

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

although this game kinda is a headache

i'm struggling to see how Kaguya makes this kill when she would be very much aware it strongly points to her

Doesn't it strongly point to me?
The neighborhood shenanigans made them suddenly uniquely vulnerable and then they took steps to rectify that with a game solve.

Yes but unless i'm misundersteanding something it's not like you are more likely to be aware of the fact that clown lied on their commute than anyone else right?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Kaguya, why did clown piece tell you they were a cop?

They asked for my fullclaim, I gave them my fullclaim

They asked for my take on the game and I did some solving

Then they decided to trust me and claim cause they thought I was town

[Kaguya Houraisan]

The PGO thing is weird when I had decent reason just to shoot clown.
I wouldn't because I'm a numbers dude and I'd have shot Aya.
But you know.

How would you know Clown wasn't commuting?

[Yuuka Kazami]

...Magic?
Maybe I thought they used a spell card. Though I only recently learned they were one shots unless specifically stated otherwise because reading is tech.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Kaguya, why did clown piece tell you they were a cop?

They asked for my fullclaim, I gave them my fullclaim

They asked for my take on the game and I did some solving

Then they decided to trust me and claim cause they thought I was town

Why did you give them your full claim?

[Yuuka Kazami]

Maybe scum have an ability that counters commutes.
Based on reading everyone's abilities there are these baked in counters in the design.

For example Sanae could close neighborhoods, but if Larvae ever joined one their passive would block it.
Same with people with speed to counteract or go over Tenshi's mass interrupt.

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

I think the play is

VOTE: reisen

i'm interested but also tell me more

it's weird how there's basically no options that are really that appealing in the PoE, finding scumreads is hard

please voice your suspicions about why each player might be scum or why each player might be town.

Marisa : unless scum went for a weird gambit she's basically never scum

aya / koishi : mech cleared by virtue of redirection

Reisen : a slot that's kinda been more around the edges of action, a position scum would certainely have been cool with taking given how things were going, something i'm finding curious is that Larva kinda did the whole "why is no one looking at Reisen" thing like i did with Tenshi, and i guess it could be bus? It certainely didn't go very far

Kaguya : big WIFOM slot that makes my head hurt, mechanically scum but i very much like her tone and idk if that's something scum would be able to go for

Daiyousei : Her play in itself is probably what i would list the most as conventionally scum, additioally i don't see why she would use that "get out of thread for the first half of the phase" ability if it was indeed her, actually yeah lol i'm not finding much reasons to townread that still

Yuuka : town by overall tone, that's probably where i most urgently need to do a reread

[Yuuka Kazami]

Marisa did something?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Why did you give them your full claim?

They asked and I thought they were town?

[Yuuka Kazami]

Aya being told makes sense.
Yours does not.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Aya being told makes sense.
Yours does not.

Actually I kind of do echo this. It's a little odd.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Ok time to leak the Clownpiece files:

Spoiler: Page 1

• Clown asks for claim
  
• Give the same claim as in 4260
  
• Get asked how much fish I have
  
• Answer 3 at night start and 4 by the end of the night
  
• Ask if they're cool with me telling all this to Dai, they say yes
  
• Get asked what my take on the gamestate is
  
• Answer that I have no idea and that I don't get what scum were doing d1 and that d2 is a wash cause the Sanae lim was always gonna go through
  
• Tell Clownpiece about Dai's other ability
  
• We both agree Dai is pretty townie
  
• Clown points out that Aya also claimed to be immune to action investigatives
  
• Clown mentions that Aya was the one that told them to use the kingmaker spellcard and explained how it works
  
• I start doing VCA, notice this:
  
  Spoiler:

  VC 1.20

  Ichirin Kumoi

  [E-2]:

  Yuuka Kazami, Kagerou Imaizumi, Reisen Udongein Inaba, Clownpiece, Marisa Kirisame
  

  Kagerou Imaizumi [3]:

  Tenshi Hinanawi

  ,

  Eternity Larva

  , Daiyousei
  

  Reisen Udongein Inaba [1]:

  Sanae Kochiya

  
  
  

  Not Voting [4]:

  Aya Shameimaru

  ,

  Koishi Komeiji

  ,

  Ichirin Kumoi

  ,

  Kaguya Houraisan

  
  
  

  With

  13

  votes,

  7

  votes to Eliminate

  
  
  

  Deadline:

  (expired on 2024-03-19 17:30:28)

  
  
  

  Mod Notes

  • If you spot an error on the vote count, please let me know!

  VC 1.21

  Ichirin Kumoi

  [3]:

  Yuuka Kazami, Reisen Udongein Inaba,

  Tenshi Hinanawi

  
  

  Kagerou Imaizumi [1]:

  Daiyousei
  

  Reisen Udongein Inaba [1]:

  Sanae Kochiya

  
  

  Koishi Komeiji

  [2]:

  Eternity Larva

  , Kagerou Imaizumi
  

  Sanae Kochiya

  [1]:

  Marisa Kirisame
  

  Aya Shameimaru

  [1]:

  Clownpiece
  
  

  Not Voting [4]:

  Aya Shameimaru

  ,

  Koishi Komeiji

  ,

  Ichirin Kumoi

  ,

  Kaguya Houraisan

  
  
  

  With

  13

  votes,

  7

  votes to Eliminate

  
  
  

  Deadline:

  (expired on 2024-03-19 17:30:28)

  
  
  

  Mod Notes

  • If you spot an error on the vote count, please let me know!
    
  • Music will continue when I’m not VCing with my phone

  
  
• Pick up the votes at that time and realize it's the flashwagon era
  
  Spoiler:

  VOTE: Koishi
  
  whatever

  VOTE: Koishi
  
  I feel better about Koishi flipping scum, which makes the risk of flipping a bodyguard worth it

  Aya is the only other person I’d consider a flash wagon on.
  
  VOTE: Ichirin

  I still am but I think there's even less appetite for that than there is for Koishi

  Not true! VOTE: Aya Shameimaru

  VOTE: Aya
  POST OR DIE!!!!
  
  GOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGOGO!!!!

  VOTE: Sanae Kochiya
  
  What do you think about this vote, Aya-San?

  
  
• Clown says it's hard to trust me but decides to trust me at this point

Spoiler: Page 2

• Continuing with the solving, say my first instinct is to kill Kagerou but admit I hadn't ISOd them yet
  
• Ask them if they want anything relay'd to Dai, they say they're unsure
  
• They decide to fullclaim and say it is what it is if they die, also mention that Aya is the only real person who knows their full role
  
• I ask to be copped if they trust Reisen/Dai, they say that's what they were gonna do before day end but that if they're fullclaiming to me there's no point in copping me
  
• They decide they wanna cop in Yuuka/Kagerou
  
• They think the solve is Yuuka + Kagerou or Kagerou + Aya
  
• They also decide they're never voting Marisa
  
• We argue about if Aya is town or not

Spoiler: Page 3

• I ask for the Marisa towncase, apparently it's cause of the Dango, more back and forth
  
• We decide Cop Yuuka/Kill Kagerou is optimal
  
• We discuss if Clownpiece should be doc'd come to the conclusion that it'd be a waste cause publicly claimed commuter
  
• We get sidetracked talking about how Larva's role clears Clownpiece cause Clownpiece can randomly add her to a hood
  
• Dai gets back to me with her claim, I relay the info
  
• Clownpiece decides it's optimal for Dai to target her since if Clownpiece dies she also dies which would be a vig shot + a very suspicious bird that dies the next phase

Spoiler: Page 4

• Decides game probably just ends with Yuuka + Kagerou
  
• Clownpiece starts talking about having Daiyousei claim the cop check instead (Dai this is the fakeclaim Clown wanted that I was talking about in the hood)
  
• Ask when the hood closes, get told it stays open until the end of the next day
  
• We agree that the game is probably just Yuuka + Kagerou, conclude our business is done, then start shitposting

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Way I see it rn the Clownpiece kill can only really be explained in one of four ways:

1. Scum targeted Clownpiece N1 with an ability that gives feedback and got back no result - This I think is the most likely, but also the hardest to get info out of since it requires being able to verify everyones n1 Active + Spellcard actions
   
2. Sanae's mystery roleblocker targeted Koishi and tried to shoot in Aya/Koishi, with them staying alive cause of my Doc shot - If Koishi only gets feedback when someone was attacked then a roleblock is indistinguishable from not being attacked. If it's an active this could easily be done, if it's a spellcard then there'd need to be some way to recharge the spellcard. Kagerou mentioned their Master Spark specifically can't be recharged so if no one is claiming to have an ability that lets them recharge someone elses spellcard then it's safe to assume that scum have some way to recharge a spellcard
   
3. Aya is scum, killed her teammate N1, then also shot Clownpiece N2 for some reason? - I don't think this world makes any sense cause it only works if they know Daiyousei is also dying to make the Aya alive by 5p ELO work and also relies on her teammate surviving. Also runs into the mystery roleblocker problem of why not just roleblock Clownpiece if she's that worried about the Cop check
   
4. Scum are 5 billion IQ and predicted that Clownpiece was lying about Commuting N2 with no extra info and decided to shoot there and risk losing their Evens instead of just killing Aya/Koishi - I'm ok with losing to this world, I don't think it really makes any sense

[Yuuka Kazami]

1. I already said I tried to visit clown N1, but my ability did not work.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Tenshi did not use their ability.

My ability failed because clown commuted. No spell card refunds.
Which leaves Sanae being blocked by scum since no one else claimed it.

As you've mentioned, it seems it did not benefit them to have the game be on odds.

[Yuuka Kazami]

If I were scum and Marisa was town and clown piece said that they were town reading Marisa because they received a Dango, I would be *so* salty because that's a terrible reason to town read someone for something unverifiable.

Though there is a slight risk that someone followed Larvae and so they could've lied about it, but a buddy sending it to them as a scheme thing,

well no. It kind of relies on their buddy flipping so that doesn't make sense to ever use the fruit that way really.
Given the positioning involved.