Mini 2331 - Touhou UPick: Anonymous Edition (Game Over)

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Is a combination of no lim and:
Reisen uses Illusion Seeker on Koishi
Koishi Bodyguards Aya
Aya watches Marisa
Marisa uses guilty generator
optimal?

If Koishi/Aya gets shot Reisen delays Koishi's death until the next night
If Marisa gets shot Aya sees the kill
If Marisa survives the guilty generator gets used
Both conftown always survive until tomorrow, and the number of mislims available stays the same

Why can't we lim and have the same pattern as long as we don't lim Reisen or Marisa?

Because if there's a 1f1 we can't lim both

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

1f1?

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

By my count, we have one miselimination regardless of if two people die or not? How does that factor? What are you worried about?

[Kaguya Houraisan]

1f1?

If we lim someone here and Marisa comes out with a guilty we don't have time to lim both the guilty and Marisa

If we no lim we have time to lim both

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

1f1?

If we lim someone here and Marisa comes out with a guilty we don't have time to lim both the guilty and Marisa

If we no lim we have time to lim both

I see what you're saying now. Then I hope Marisa can reconsider whether explaining the guilty ruin it. If not, that's a harder decision.

[Yuuka Kazami]

For clarity purposes I would like to know when you two, Kagiya and Dai, full claimed to each other.

Date please.

I fullclaimed in the Misty Lake ~4 hours after the Sanae flip N2, Dai claims her active after that
Dai claimed a day ability that let her check Koishi/Reisen/Yuuka around two days into D1

Rest of Dai's claims would be in thread

Oh. This weakens my point somewhat and makes them slightly less accountable. But still more accountable than refusing to share.

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

I also doubt a protect circle like that should happen. If it does, great. Dai and Yukka are forced to kill Reisen which limits their pool to me. I'd rather just lim scum but your point is well taken. It's be much better taken if we knew Marisa was indeed claiming cop. If she wasn't limming today is ideal but she may not even know.

[Yuuka Kazami]

Things go wrong yes. It’s optimistic and there’s no guarantee that scum don’t have powerful abilities that charge.

Impossible to really know tho.

[Yuuka Kazami]

We know scum have a role blocker. remaining.

But the other one hasn’t come up on anyone’s radar have they?
In terms of an objective trail.

[Yuuka Kazami]

@koichi

I am Reisen udongein inaba

I have

Lunatic Gaze "Illusion Seeker"
Like Tenshi I’ll push actions on my target back to the next phase

And

"Lunatic Red Eyes"
I make someone go insane and their actions will self target that night

My active is mega phone shaped handgun and it will shut down a pt until the following day after its use

My passives are lunar refugee (ascetic) and esp waves. I send out waves and if they get picked up a hood gets made with anyone else that has moon ties. Which ended up just being other bunnies.

Who were your targets?

[Yuuka Kazami]

Does that include scum Pts?

[Yuuka Kazami]

I guess I am indeed in kill one of Reisen/Kagerou and try to extract the truth from what Marisa claims. Or they make it easy by claiming a guilty equivalent on me like I asked if they're scum.

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

How does a no lim buy us enough time though? Either way, if the target flips town, scum!Marisa would claim a misinterpretation and so would town her.

[Yuuka Kazami]

If Kagerou dies I get more information than if Reisen dies,
but I don't like the idea of leaving Reisen as the designated miselim. If I'm wrong there in a melo situation.
This is not me trying to obscure my positioning. I'm just considering.

Reisen's tone feels so wrong for scum. But tone reads are terrible. Especially at this stage of the game.
They basically only make sense as newbie scum. To me.

I do agree that Kaguya's Reisen take is weird.
They've had multiple takes where they seem to take things at face value that I'm not sure they should if they aren't forcing themselves to present themselves in a certain light or because the beliefs suit them. I'm not sure what's missing there.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

How does a no lim buy us enough time though? Either way, if the target flips town, scum!Marisa would claim a misinterpretation and so would town her.

If Marisa's guilty flips town she gets flipped 100% of the time. Having the time to flip both means that scum Marisa can't fake a guilty to force a winning 1v1

[Kaguya Houraisan]

They've had multiple takes where they seem to take things at face value that I'm not sure they should if they aren't forcing themselves to present themselves in a certain light or because the beliefs suit them. I'm not sure what's missing there.

Examples? I'm taking things mostly at face value because the accounted for scum actions so far would point to one person fakeclaiming to hide the spellblock and the other either mostly or entirely fullclaiming

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

How does a no lim buy us enough time though? Either way, if the target flips town, scum!Marisa would claim a misinterpretation and so would town her.

If Marisa's guilty flips town she gets flipped 100% of the time. Having the time to flip both means that scum Marisa can't fake a guilty to force a winning 1v1

I'm not comfortable with that. Scum can frame a guilty target. I'd rather just lim in my solve. Nothing about that prevents the night action order.

We can then force the suspicious people to vote if we're wrong or Marisa has a guilty.

What do you think of my solve, setting mech aside?

[Yuuka Kazami]

I don't understand their reversal on reisen even after reading their reasoning.
It's pretty much "I'd expect a role blocker - like abilities to mess with people' but I wouldn't expect that to extend specifically to spell cards because that doesn't fit thematically"

It's close enough *psyduck* it doesn't need to reach that level of specification to be thematically appropriate I wouldn't expect such a close adherence either.

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

I'm not even sure what precisely one of my actions does. What if I target the same target as Marisa and accidentally clear scum? What if my action looks guilty but isn't? All I know is that I steal an object related to them and negative things can happen. (Ftr, that's my stealing the camera from Aya n1, and Riesen is ascetic day 2).

[Yuuka Kazami]

Ask the mod, not the thread.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

I don't understand their reversal on reisen even after reading their reasoning.
It's pretty much "I'd expect a role blocker - like abilities to mess with people' but I wouldn't expect that to extend specifically to spell cards because that doesn't fit thematically"

It's close enough *psyduck* it doesn't need to reach that level of specification to be thematically appropriate I wouldn't expect such a close adherence either.

The problem is that to fit the theme it's all or nothing. Either you block everything by shifting stuff out of phase like with

Spread Sign "Invisible Full Moon"

Owner:
Reisen Udongein Inaba
Stage 5 — Hard

Comment:
Just by shifting things out of tune by a hair's breadth, the whole world vanishes.
Because it's out of tune, the true full moon is invisible. ...Does that make it a new moon?

Or you don't block it at all

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

I don't care if I'm leashed to either Dai or Yuuka to prevent such an issue. If we're going to let outed scum go to break the game, we need a plan from all angles.

[Kaguya Houraisan]

Like Yuuka go check out the canon Reisen Imperishable Night spellcards for the type of theming that would be happening

[Kagerou Imaizumi]

Ask the mod, not the thread.

The wording is deliberately vague

[Yuuka Kazami]

Ask the mod, not the thread.

The wording is deliberately vague

Yes, this was true for a pretty much everyone, in fact the mod asked us to ask questions about our role as a means of confirming that we were here.
For the most part, they will answer specifics, or close enough. They wouldn't answer if Dai was dead when I asked them, but they did explain how my abilities worked when I asked.
For example, on the self-watch they did not specify if my result was for all visits for all days or just the one day,
it didn't hurt to ask, so I asked and they said just the day it was used.

Likewise, when I asked how the contagion watch worked or when my spell card failed (i did not know that spell cards were one shots, while actives were not because reading is tech), they made clear only after I asked that my ability had not worked, not that no one visited them.

It does not hurt to ask and I think trying the horses mouth first is better than asking players that barely understand their own roles. let alone yours.