Open 909 | A Newbie Game | Game Over

[KayJayQueue]

So my thoughts on the night kill are that scum probably assumed that Jackson would track me and were okay with it, which would clear me and make me available for... something. What thing, I don't know. Or am I assuming too much in thinking that scum would think that Jackson was going to track me? Am I being an egomaniac? Maybe, but if that was the case then scum was fine with me being clear, but I can't really figure out whether KJQ or StraightFlush would benefit more from that. I did say last day that I was considering purple or ketchup/StraightFlush, and with two of them dead it only leaves StraightFlush, which KJQ benefits more from. Am I totally off base with this line of thinking? Or am I looking in the wrong place for even thinking about it at all?

I’m not accusing you of anything but this reads like a post I’d make as scum (but honestly, I’ve also posted this way as town so is it reeallllly AI? Probably not lol) the train of thought looks so familiar. I go through that thought process often and instead of thinking about it and coming up with a better answer, I spew my thoughts as they come and just full send. And then i usually get accused of being too hedge-y/reserved/non-commital. I should really work on that. Seeing you post this way too is giving me a better perspective on why people come at me when I post this way. I guess I really needed to see it not from my own pov for once!

[zachheus]

I feel you. I just don't want to sit on my thoughts as I have been but I think my biggest takeaway from this game will be that I also really need to adjust my typing style for mafia and avoid those same accusations. I'm way more used to ORGs where it's better to seem more flexible if that makes any sense. I'm glad we can learn from each other

[KayJayQueue]

Jack can you go through again why the most likely option for leaving you alive is that it’s not Zach? I don’t know if I’m fully following this but I want to.

[JacksonVirgo]

Jack can you go through again why the most likely option for leaving you alive is that it’s not Zach? I don’t know if I’m fully following this but I want to.

I expressed a strong TR on hem and yourself. I said to Ketchup that my logic cleared flush too and was clear that I was going to be focusing on zach tomorrow. As a tracker that’s a clear threat to zach in particular.

In a zach!scum world, they’d be forced to kill me as otherwise I would win the game for town by tracking him to the kill. He couldn’t risk a doctor existing, it did not matter he would be forced to kill me. He would have no real other options as if I live with a track on him, he’s gone

[JacksonVirgo]

Therefore me not dying here clears Zach

[JacksonVirgo]

took a shower before bed after a long day of work. still, i can see both as possible. and i have not decided on ruling out zach. I'm going to articulate all my points for or against each slot and treat this as ELo where I can bounce off a confirmed town. can we do that JV? i think that's the best way to play this.

Sure can, I’ll work on doing this within the next few days

[KayJayQueue]

Therefore me not dying here clears Zach

Okay question then, if we lim flush and he’s town, you’re saying you’d then believe it was me? (let’s pretend you’re not dead for this thought experiment even though you probably will be)

[JacksonVirgo]

Therefore me not dying here clears Zach

Okay question then, if we lim flush and he’s town, you’re saying you’d then believe it was me? (let’s pretend you’re not dead for this thought experiment even though you probably will be)

Inherently, yeah I would but I don’t think Flush flips town and also I would still scrap all preconceptions and read you and zach as a clean slate as best as possible. ELO gaminggg babyyyyy

[KayJayQueue]

And there’s 0% possibility that flush is town and Zach just made the wrong decision?

[JacksonVirgo]

And there’s 0% possibility that flush is town and Zach just made the wrong decision?

Of course not but I don’t think I want to argue that the scum goofed as an argument to eliminate someone today. I’m deciding between you and flush

[KayJayQueue]

No I’m not talking about today. I want to lim flush but if he flips town, I think we lose because you cleared everyone else and I’m town. And although I don’t share the same willingness to lim town (me) today, I actually do think hem might happily vote me at 3. If you cleared HEM, we have to lim flush and if he’s town, Zach. If not, we lose and it’ll be really annoying because it definitely won’t be my fault lol

[JacksonVirgo]

I’m under the assumption that their rash behaviour was because they felt at risk of elimination themselves. I’m sure they’ll give the game a solid look and not rush into shit

[StraightFlush]

And there’s 0% possibility that flush is town and Zach just made the wrong decision?

Of course not but I don’t think I want to argue that the scum goofed as an argument to eliminate someone today. I’m deciding between you and flush

You don't want to use scum goofing as an argument... in a newbie game... where the entire PoE is made up of self-proclaimed newbies...

That might be some wishful thinking ngl. Also wrt your Zach logic, there's an argument to be made that scum!Zach's just as boned if he thuds into a doctor as he is after killing purple. If he believed that (entirely possible), he would want to at least get the guaranteed kill on purple because getting rid of a greencheck is better than not doing so, and then there's a slim chance he can talk his way out of things and get to eLo. I don't want to say you're bad at analyzing the game, but I think dismissing the doctor and scumgoof ideas is a little foolhardy (for diff reasons) and reeks of confbias. Glad you're listening to HEM on how to proceed

[JacksonVirgo]

Insulting someone’s intelligence as an argument sure is fun huh?

[StraightFlush]

Not fun, merely necessary.

[humaneatingmonkey]

newbies aren't goof. i played a lot of newbies. i don't think I've ever seen a newbie goof. it was often an obvious kill choice, but not a goof.

[JacksonVirgo]

You’re not even listening to the argument I’m saying and deciding to insult ME.

Piss off

[humaneatingmonkey]

i'm willing to dismiss the doctor idea entirely, as it's really obvious to anyone that Purple was FN

I'm re-reading the thread now as we speak.

[KayJayQueue]

Okay I have another question: what would be my reasoning for killing purple over Jack? I knew by the end of day 2 what both town PRs were, there’s obviously no doctor, and Jack town read me more than anyone outside of ketchup. Why wouldn’t I kill Jack over purple if I’m scum? I’m sorry but even as a cleared town, purple never voted, barely contributed meaningfully to the discussion for whatrver reason (be it strategy or real life) - in what world is purple more of a threat to me than Jack?

[humaneatingmonkey]

It's entirely possible you chose to keep Jack because you have calculated that he wouldn't target you and he would target zach (or someone else). you would have also calculated that you would win {KJQ, HEM, SF} pool and that you would need his vote to pass through Day 3 to eliminate one of us. You have created a strong bond with him in this game and have both strongly townread each other, so it prevents you from being overwhelmed by SF and I (whereas SF town reads me over you) as you make the case that it could never be you and the next elimination should be SF/HEM. In this reality, Purple was simply one less confirmed town for you to deal with.

[KayJayQueue]

When did I say the next elimination should be flush or YOU? I’ve been arguing for Zach/Flush. I’m confused…why are you adding yourself in there?

[humaneatingmonkey]

You're asking me why you would make a kill like that, and so I'm telling you what I think is a possible decision-making process you had during the night

[humaneatingmonkey]

ABOUT RVS

RVS lasted for 12 whole ass pages for which KJQ, SF, and zach were all present. During this stage, if you're scum who wants to blend in, it's obvious what you have to do: you got to act silly. halfasleep has actively participated in this phase, and so it's reasonable to say that an example has been set for their partner to join in.

among the three, what stood out to me was zach. he felt so out of place and distant.

I feel bad saying this because they’re new but not a super fan of zachs posts. I’ll let them cook though and come back to this after the game advances somewhat as it could just be nerves and not knowing what to do (as either alignment)

OMG I WAS ABOUT TO SAY THAT BUT THEN DECIDED TO HOLD IT BACK FOR A BIT OMG OMG ACTUALLY IN SYNC

I get that because my posts have been awkward forced and stilted af lol I just don't know how to sillypost with completely new people. I wish I had something to cook but the fridge is empty because I haven't been able to make sense of anything that has been said <3

if zach was scum then he wasn't trying to blend in this phase at all... which doesn't make sense to me. this should be the easiest phase for them to establish towncred and blend in. why is he trying to make sense of anything? I'm inclined to just believe that this aligns town for him.

[JacksonVirgo]

i'm willing to dismiss the doctor idea entirely, as it's really obvious to anyone that Purple was FN

I'm re-reading the thread now as we speak.

I agree with you, I don't think it's reasonable to assume scum had doubts that Purple was the FN.

My assumptions about the night kill are:
1. It was a reasonable expectation that I was not going to be tracking the final wolf
2. The wolf felt that zach being cleared was worth keeping me alive

I think that sums all my assumptions up, I'll append to this if I think of another.

Given both assumptions (even in isolation), I feel like Zach is cleared outright. I feel it's incredibly unreasonable to expect scum!zach to not shoot me here, even if they had the lingering threat of a doctor. They couldn't risk that, if I was left alive and was tracking them. They'd be dead if they didn't kill me, therefore the chance of a doctor is meaningless.

I feel it was reasonable to expect I wasn't going to be tracking anybody outside of literally just zach, so that assumption only clears zach. The second assumption lands into my reads, which I know my reads but I am not 100% what people thought my reads were. I feel given a clear on Zach, where does everyone think I was going to be pushing? That's more important than who I actually would

[JacksonVirgo]

Jack

Spoiler: animated gif