Mini 722: Neapolitan Mafia (Over)

[UnofficialRulerOfEveryone]

Vote Count

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch!

magnus_orion - 3 (Percy, Zachrulez, Nikelaos)
Zachrulez - 3 (PsychoSniper, Rogue Shenanigans, tyhess)

Not Voting

(6)
don_johnson, magnus_orion, Beyond_Birthday, McNuke, Isacc, Lindisfarne

[McNuke]

Don:
Well first of all I said that there was never any definite red flags about rogue meaning that I am still very unsure about him and it was mostly a hunch. Starting with the way he handled Lind's plan I had been suspicious enough to keep a closer eye on him and I have not seen anything that clears him yet by really showing me that his intentions are 100% pro town.

Magnus:
Like I said before there was not much to go off of. It is mostly a comment on how I feel your play style has left very little to judge you on. My point about being all over is mostly that you are very aggressive meaning that you have gone after so many people that its hard to draw many conclusions from your actions.

As for the majority comment its just look at all the vote counts through the game and look who is voting for the person who has the most votes on them. Either you voted them, will vote them very soon, or had voted them and recently unvoted them. I may just be a result of your aggressive play style, but it was just something I noticed.

[McNuke]

EBWOP
It may be*

[magnus_orion]

I don't know what you mean by very little to go on, though I think I suffer from attention suspicion... (Meaning each post a person makes can contain small scumtells here and there, but if that person posts a lot, those scumtells build up quickly and that person becomes suspicious to most of the town.)

If you want to ask me to go into detail about anything in particular, go right ahead.

[Isacc]

Alright, that seems fair to me. Here are my three.

Note that none of them I feel are

good

lynches

, but they are the best I see at this point in time.

1st: Rogue -

One of my hard to reads, I feel his is the best at this point because

I think a lot could be gathered from his death

, based on some of the interactions he's had with others. Honestly, my gut instinct is uneasy with him.

2nd: Magnus -

Honestly, basically the same reasons as Rogue. I have a bad feeling regarding him, not strong but it's there. More importantly though,

I feel we could learn from his death.

3rd: Don -

Super weak, but

he and Tyhess I think are the most likely to give us information from their deaths

, and he is just barely more scummy than Tyhess has been so far.


Again, I wouldn't at all support any lynches at this particular moment, because I feel really unsure about calling out anyone at this point. And I really don't think any of these people are great choices yet, but he asked for the best. I think I want to see a lot more happen before we consider lynching anyone.

So you don't feel like these are good lynches, but you want to lynch them anyway to gain information?

Got it...

But don't we want to make a strong lynch that we feel has a damn good chance of flipping scum rather then lynching someone with the excuse that we're not sure... but just want information?

You seem to be speaking in a sense to dissociate yourself from any lynch that might end up going bad... as if you're almost certain that the person we lynch ISN'T going to flip scum.

I don't like it... I don't like it at all.

FOS: Isacc

Haven't read any farther than this yet, but what? Are you kidding?

We were asked by Don to give our top 3. I specifically said, if I HAD to choose, it'd be these three, but I don't think anyone is lynch worthy yet.

It's kinda suspicious that you didn't even read my post (or the one it was answering) and tried to take it out of context and FOS me for it.

[Isacc]

DON: if you can clear Rogue, like magnus believes, do so now.

If anyone has the other odd role, claim after/iff Don clears Rogue.

If Don can clear Rogue, and then we can clear Zach/odd role X, I believe I should be able to clear another person, and the game should be over.

i cannot "clear" rogue. never said or implied that i could. if someone has a case on him i am all ears. i said that something i read had me leaning town with him. rogue is on his own, if i think him a myslynch then i'll let you know, but until the time comes when my read on him can make a difference i have nothing to say on the matter. also, i thought we covered the fact that an odd role doesn't clear zach in the least. i appreciate the lists, people, but there is no substantial reasoning behind anyones choices other than "gut" reads.

zach: i think you are reaching with Isacc's post, he clearly states he doesn't want a lynch yet. maybe he is giving himself an out in case the lynch goes sour, but i don't find his post scummy.

isacc and ty: please present something more than suspicion. i would like to see an actual case. if you can't substatiate then at least ask your suspects questions or something.

mcnuke: now we're getting somewhere. please outline Rogues "red flags". also show me evidence of mag going with the majority and being "all over the board".

6 day one confirmables now?

You people are on drugs.

QFT. but thats besides the point. do you have any suspects?

Ok this is another one I needed to directly respond to. Sorry for the double post.

Don, YOU asked me to name my top 3, so I named my top 3. Now you tell me I need to make a better case against them? Do you have multiple personalities here?

I wasn't "giving myself an out" I was answering your question exactly as presented. I stated that these were the "top three" in

comparison

to other people, but not that I wanted them lynched.

[Zachrulez]

Alright, that seems fair to me. Here are my three.

Note that none of them I feel are

good

lynches

, but they are the best I see at this point in time.

1st: Rogue -

One of my hard to reads, I feel his is the best at this point because

I think a lot could be gathered from his death

, based on some of the interactions he's had with others. Honestly, my gut instinct is uneasy with him.

2nd: Magnus -

Honestly, basically the same reasons as Rogue. I have a bad feeling regarding him, not strong but it's there. More importantly though,

I feel we could learn from his death.

3rd: Don -

Super weak, but

he and Tyhess I think are the most likely to give us information from their deaths

, and he is just barely more scummy than Tyhess has been so far.


Again, I wouldn't at all support any lynches at this particular moment, because I feel really unsure about calling out anyone at this point. And I really don't think any of these people are great choices yet, but he asked for the best. I think I want to see a lot more happen before we consider lynching anyone.

So you don't feel like these are good lynches, but you want to lynch them anyway to gain information?

Got it...

But don't we want to make a strong lynch that we feel has a damn good chance of flipping scum rather then lynching someone with the excuse that we're not sure... but just want information?

You seem to be speaking in a sense to dissociate yourself from any lynch that might end up going bad... as if you're almost certain that the person we lynch ISN'T going to flip scum.

I don't like it... I don't like it at all.

FOS: Isacc

Haven't read any farther than this yet, but what? Are you kidding?

We were asked by Don to give our top 3. I specifically said, if I HAD to choose, it'd be these three, but I don't think anyone is lynch worthy yet.

It's kinda suspicious that you didn't even read my post (or the one it was answering) and tried to take it out of context and FOS me for it.

The point is not about attacking you specifically for giving your top 3.

It's the way you say "I think a lot could be gathered from his death" that bothers me.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with saying who your top 3 suspects are and why you suspect them... but to go and say "I think a lot could be gathered from his death" ... yeah, I really don't like hearing that statement.

I find it off. I find it suspicious. Not suspicious enough to change my vote, but I don't see what's wrong with me voicing why I didn't like the way you made your top 3.

I just don't see why you keep saying "I think a lot could be gathered from his death" rather then trying to actually come up with decent reasons why the mentioned people are in your top 3.

The only real reason you gave for suspecting anyone is that you just have a gut instinct about them. I just find the lack of substantive reasons coupled with "I think a lot could be gathered from his death" to be... strange.

Maybe you want to try to find those reasons, instead of trying to say that I'm unfairly coming after you. I don't see any reason why I shouldn't be suspicious of you over this. I find it especially amusing the way you barked back at me after it seemed totally fair to you for me to be suspected for some odd/even semantics, and told me to calm down because I only had 3 votes on me. You have a mere FOS on you and just look at the way you reacted to it.

By the way... I did read your post... I think that much was made obvious by the fact that I

quoted

your post. I also read the post you were answering. If there's one thing in mafia that completely drives me up the wall... it's people who claim that other people don't read their posts. I can't understand why people are allowed to get away with claiming that. It's like just because you say I didn't read your post it has to be true.

Maybe you want a better defense then that... like explaining to me how I might have misinterpreted what you said.

[Isacc]

You misrepresented my post by claiming IN ANY WAY that I wanted those people lynched. They are only more suspicious in comparison to others, meaning that they are more my "least townie" than my "most scummy."

Your original remark involved comments like "So you don't feel like these are good lynches, but you want to lynch them anyway to gain information?" This is misrepresentation, because I

don't

want to lynch them.

But don't we want to make a strong lynch that we feel has a damn good chance of flipping scum rather then lynching someone with the excuse that we're not sure... but just want information?

Yes, I DO want to make a strong lynch that is scum. I was just giving the top three

at this point

in time, all of whom I thought should

not

be lynched yet.


Anyways you want my reasonings? I do think that the most could be learned from lynching them, because I feel they've made the most connections to others.

However, I am not going to name exactly what those connections are just so that the people in question can begin their distancing. That would just warn any potential scum of my suspicions, which would be plain stupid.


Finally, I specifically said my cases weren't strong against

anyone

. I never wanted a lynch, so stop claiming I did. I was asked the top three, I named the top three. Just because one person is a

better

lynch does not mean I said they were a good lynch. 2 is higher than 1, but it still isn't 1000, get it?

[Isacc]

Oh and btw, yeah a double post, but I've done a reread on a few parts, and my scumgroup idea is seeming a bit more likely due to some things that have occurred. I'm just making this noted, though I think I won't really know for sure until any lynches. We'll see though.

[Zachrulez]

You misrepresented my post by claiming IN ANY WAY that I wanted those people lynched. They are only more suspicious in comparison to others, meaning that they are more my "least townie" than my "most scummy."

Your original remark involved comments like "So you don't feel like these are good lynches, but you want to lynch them anyway to gain information?" This is misrepresentation, because I

don't

want to lynch them.

But don't we want to make a strong lynch that we feel has a damn good chance of flipping scum rather then lynching someone with the excuse that we're not sure... but just want information?

Yes, I DO want to make a strong lynch that is scum. I was just giving the top three

at this point

in time, all of whom I thought should

not

be lynched yet.


Anyways you want my reasonings? I do think that the most could be learned from lynching them, because I feel they've made the most connections to others.

However, I am not going to name exactly what those connections are just so that the people in question can begin their distancing. That would just warn any potential scum of my suspicions, which would be plain stupid.


Finally, I specifically said my cases weren't strong against

anyone

. I never wanted a lynch, so stop claiming I did. I was asked the top three, I named the top three. Just because one person is a

better

lynch does not mean I said they were a good lynch. 2 is higher than 1, but it still isn't 1000, get it?

And earlier you posted this.

Ok, is anyone paying attention to me? How many times do I have to remind you that there isn't really a lynch mob on you, Zach? You have three votes, I think, maybe 2 depending on who else has taken votes off of you.

Stop being so defensive about the votes.

Who's being defensive now? And over an FOS to boot...

[Isacc]

You misrepresented my post by claiming IN ANY WAY that I wanted those people lynched. They are only more suspicious in comparison to others, meaning that they are more my "least townie" than my "most scummy."

Your original remark involved comments like "So you don't feel like these are good lynches, but you want to lynch them anyway to gain information?" This is misrepresentation, because I

don't

want to lynch them.

But don't we want to make a strong lynch that we feel has a damn good chance of flipping scum rather then lynching someone with the excuse that we're not sure... but just want information?

Yes, I DO want to make a strong lynch that is scum. I was just giving the top three

at this point

in time, all of whom I thought should

not

be lynched yet.


Anyways you want my reasonings? I do think that the most could be learned from lynching them, because I feel they've made the most connections to others.

However, I am not going to name exactly what those connections are just so that the people in question can begin their distancing. That would just warn any potential scum of my suspicions, which would be plain stupid.


Finally, I specifically said my cases weren't strong against

anyone

. I never wanted a lynch, so stop claiming I did. I was asked the top three, I named the top three. Just because one person is a

better

lynch does not mean I said they were a good lynch. 2 is higher than 1, but it still isn't 1000, get it?

And earlier you posted this.

Ok, is anyone paying attention to me? How many times do I have to remind you that there isn't really a lynch mob on you, Zach? You have three votes, I think, maybe 2 depending on who else has taken votes off of you.

Stop being so defensive about the votes.

Who's being defensive now? And over an FOS to boot...

Hey look, in both examples you were misrepresenting the situation. First about my post, second about whether or not people were going to lynch you. Funny coincidence isn't it?

[Zachrulez]

That wasn't a denial.

[Nikelaos]

2nd: Magnus -

Honestly, basically the same reasons as Rogue. I have a bad feeling regarding him, not strong but it's there. More importantly though, I feel we could learn from his death.

While I agree with some of the reasoning regarding lynching Rogue and Don, I feel this is really weak. I've come to the conclusion we can learn nothing from magnus's death; aside from buddying up to LF a little bit, he's openly attacked the majority of the town. Only if he flips scum we may be able to infer Zach is town, but that's just about all I can see. He's jumped all over the place so far, so lynching us will give us little information about the players he attacked. Mostly for that reason,

%% UNVOTE

.

While I'm not particularly sure I think the odd should reveal himself, it seems like it's the general consensus it should be done. In that case, I'm pretty sure Percy has not posted since everyone started asking for the odd claim, just thought I'd mention that he could be the odd before everyone starts hounding Zach.

[Isacc]

While I agree with some of the reasoning regarding lynching Rogue and Don, I feel this is really weak. I've come to the conclusion we can learn nothing from magnus's death; aside from buddying up to LF a little bit, he's openly attacked the majority of the town. Only if he flips scum we may be able to infer Zach is town, but that's just about all I can see. He's jumped all over the place so far, so lynching us will give us little information about the players he attacked.

Yeah, I wasn't really sure on whether to put him or Don as 2nd highest. Really it was hard to place anyone, since I felt so weakly about any of the cases. You make a good point though, maybe Magnus isn't the best person to put there.

[Isacc]

That wasn't a denial.

A denial of what? You made a nonsense accusation at me, and I broke down your logic. What are you suggesting I should deny?

[Zachrulez]

No you didn't.

You simply twisted my concerns and spun a counterattack claiming suspicion on me for having concerns.

All I stated was why I was bothered by your post.

You seem more concerned about breaking down the logic then the actual concern.

That's your choice I guess, but I have noted it.

[Zachrulez]

FYI: defending yourself by "breaking down my logic" is still being defensive, especially with all the capitalized and bolded words, sorry.

[tyhess]

I've come to the conclusion we can learn nothing from magnus's death; aside from buddying up to LF a little bit, he's openly attacked the majority of the town.

%% UNVOTE

.

QFT

I do not think Magnus is the right lynch day 1. He may be the most scummy in other's eyes; I know he has been in mine at some points. But I think we should all be able to agree that he is one of the worst lynches day 1 at this point. Am I saying he's town? Absolutely not. We just gain more from just about every other person's lynch than from his. You can't necessarily win this game (ie all Mafia games in general) Day 1, but you can definitely lose it by lynching someone that you gain nothing from.

[Isacc]

No you didn't.

You simply twisted my concerns and spun a counterattack claiming suspicion on me for having concerns.

All I stated was why I was bothered by your post.

You seem more concerned about breaking down the logic then the actual concern.

That's your choice I guess, but I have noted it.

Yes I did. You claimed I was suggesting things I wasn't, therefore the logic of your suspicion was essentially made up.

As for the bold, umm yes, craplogic is often a scumtell, so yes I am concerned about breaking down your logic. That's in fact the best thing to do really.

FYI: defending yourself by "breaking down my logic" is still being defensive, especially with all the capitalized and bolded words, sorry.

Yes, I was defensive. But here's the deal.

When you were defensive, it was based in crappy logic, that people were about to lynch you, when they weren't.

However, I am defensive because you made a nonsense accusation to try and throw suspicion on me, based on false claims. This is perfectly acceptable.

[Isacc]

I've come to the conclusion we can learn nothing from magnus's death; aside from buddying up to LF a little bit, he's openly attacked the majority of the town.

%% UNVOTE

.

QFT

I do not think Magnus is the right lynch day 1. He may be the most scummy in other's eyes; I know he has been in mine at some points. But I think we should all be able to agree that he is one of the worst lynches day 1 at this point. Am I saying he's town? Absolutely not. We just gain more from just about every other person's lynch than from his. You can't necessarily win this game (ie all Mafia games in general) Day 1, but you can definitely lose it by lynching someone that you gain nothing from.

Your quote says I said that, but Nik was the one that did. I think that's a typo?

[Isacc]

EBWOP: Oh wow, I just had the same problem...what is up with the quoting system?

That quote should be from tyhess.

[Zachrulez]

No you didn't.

You simply twisted my concerns and spun a counterattack claiming suspicion on me for having concerns.

All I stated was why I was bothered by your post.

You seem more concerned about breaking down the logic then the actual concern.

That's your choice I guess, but I have noted it.

Yes I did. You claimed I was suggesting things I wasn't, therefore the logic of your suspicion was essentially made up.

As for the bold, umm yes, craplogic is often a scumtell, so yes I am concerned about breaking down your logic. That's in fact the best thing to do really.

FYI: defending yourself by "breaking down my logic" is still being defensive, especially with all the capitalized and bolded words, sorry.

Yes, I was defensive. But here's the deal.

When you were defensive, it was based in crappy logic, that people were about to lynch you, when they weren't.

However, I am defensive because you made a nonsense accusation to try and throw suspicion on me, based on false claims. This is perfectly acceptable.

My logic is craplogic because you said so?

Got it.

[magnus_orion]

That wasn't a denial.

but this IS a strawman...

[Isacc]

No you didn't.

You simply twisted my concerns and spun a counterattack claiming suspicion on me for having concerns.

All I stated was why I was bothered by your post.

You seem more concerned about breaking down the logic then the actual concern.

That's your choice I guess, but I have noted it.

Yes I did. You claimed I was suggesting things I wasn't, therefore the logic of your suspicion was essentially made up.

As for the bold, umm yes, craplogic is often a scumtell, so yes I am concerned about breaking down your logic. That's in fact the best thing to do really.

FYI: defending yourself by "breaking down my logic" is still being defensive, especially with all the capitalized and bolded words, sorry.

Yes, I was defensive. But here's the deal.

When you were defensive, it was based in crappy logic, that people were about to lynch you, when they weren't.

However, I am defensive because you made a nonsense accusation to try and throw suspicion on me, based on false claims. This is perfectly acceptable.

My logic is craplogic because you said so?

Got it.

No, your logic is craplogic for the reasons I already explained, the very reasons that you ignored and didn't respond to.

What, do you have no argument? I don't see any other reason you keep ignoring my commentary on your nonsense logic. Kinda sounds like you're trying to avoid an argument you know you'll lose by making snarky comments. This reeks of scum.

I think you've officially moved to the top of my most likely scum list. Consider yourself

FOS'ed

.

[Isacc]

That wasn't a denial.

but this IS a strawman...

QFT.