Open 104 - The New C9 - Game Over

[StrangerCoug]

Now I actually have to read at 7:30 in the morning. Thanks a lot.

[StrangerCoug]

My brain shut off partway through, so I have only The Central Scrutinizer, hewitt, and part of Hitch done. I'm still waiting on replacements for Stef and Mada.

Before we start:

Mod: Please prod gusmahler, M1KEMMIEMIEMKEMIKE, Morphing addict, norseman1066, oEJo, SiestaGuru, Sun Tzu, well-named, and zhaorx

. Looks like the mod needs to wake up too—I count nine people in need of a prod.

The Central Scrutinizer:

It's funny that he complains about the fluff early on and only about half his posts pre-OIIW modkill actually have content.

He claims vig in #1009. Who, if anybody, did you kill Night 1 and why?

Something's up with his posts after his claim, though. #1093 and #1094 are particularly odd.

hewitt:

I don't like #283 and #285. There are some circumstances where it's OK to vote as you go V/LA, but #283 is not one of them. Your unvote at #285 sounds like you don't want to get in trouble with it.

He has made attempts to stall the omg_im_innocent_wtf lynch, but I'll attribute that to either being unaware of the lynch-all-liars meta on here or not believing in lynch-all-liars.

Re: #739, always give a reason for your vote. You waited until #745 to give it (which I'm not a fan of since omg_im_innocent_wtf also had a superiority complex, which in my opinion was worse), and I hate your reactions to being questioned about your vote in #743. #834 is a contradiction of #745 as having a superiority complex is being arrogant.

#857: If you were voicing your disapproval of the omg_im_innocent_wtf wagon, then why are you surprised about him being vanilla? If it's because you thought he was a mason, why haven't you gone after oEJo?

The sarcasm in #957 comes off to me as WIFOM.

Hitch:

Part of #153 is wrong. If someone has been counterclaimed, the counterclaimee being "bad" and the counterclaimant being "good" is indeed a possible combination.

Why are you withholding information from the town in #170?

Hell-bent on a matrix lynch starting with #199. Just an observation, though.

The rest when I'm fully awake.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

If I were town-aligned, then I might have been engaging in a stupid game to try to get the scum NOT to shoot The Fonz. Or I was just being an asshole. You choose.

From now on I think we need to start a new policy... after this point, people who softclaim, or claim without being serious, get lynched. I think this is reasonable and should be the first precondition for scumhunting.

And now I have to get ready for work, but soon I will scumhunt. Hopefully.

[StrangerCoug]

If I were town-aligned, then I might have been engaging in a stupid game to try to get the scum NOT to shoot The Fonz. Or I was just being an asshole. You choose.

Your wording here suggests that you are

NOT

town-aligned. Congratulations on your slip.

Vote: The Central Scrutinizer

From now on I think we need to start a new policy... after this point, people who softclaim, or claim without being serious, get lynched. I think this is reasonable and should be the first precondition for scumhunting.

Good plan. I approve of this just so I can get something solid.

[Hitch]

I am up to post 74 so far.

vote stef

because voting for a claimed mason D1 with no counter claim/other evidence etc is incredibly anti town, and given he appears to be an experianced player the behaviour is wolfy, sorry don't know the correct adjective for these forums, is scummy right?

also - hai guyz

Yo, Hitch.

How does the new info that OMG's claim is disputed by the claimed mason change your assessment of stef's vote?

not one bit, although I havfe litterally just got to the thread so I haven't second levelled it yet, but that information was unavailable at the point of stef's vote.

Now I'll think about where we are now -

omg has been 'counter claimed' for want of a better term, that means omg = bad, EJ = good are an impossible combination.

OK, I had a massive long post with all the possible combos of OMG and EJ in them, and their likelyhood and motives as far as I could see.

I think it was an accurate disection of the possibilitys.

THen I deleted it as I think it would be of more benefit to the mafia than the town.

It will be interesting to see what level people are on here. Potential massive tells on the way.

None of the deep analysis involves stef though. His vote was scummy, nothing can erase or compound that now.

post 153

[Hitch]

Why was Stef's vote scummy?
What do you think of OIIW's 'claim'?

Stef's vote was scummy because he voted for a claimed mason before the other mason had even come into the thread. Why would he do that?

My thoughts of OMG's claim are best left unsaid for now, please see my post above the one I quote here for as much detail as I'm willing to go into for now.

Post 170.

I wanted to be able to see both the posts and coug's analysis on the same page before i respond.

[Hitch]

<snip>

Hitch:

Part of #153 is wrong. If someone has been counterclaimed, the counterclaimee being "bad" and the counterclaimant being "good" is indeed a possible combination.

<snip>

OK, I concede it is theoretically possible. My point was that the probability of that case being so is so small as to be deemed irrelevant. To argue otherwise you must reconsile the following.

If you are evil, what possible motivation do you have to claim masons with a player whom you do not know the role of?

Think beyond Level 1 here. Think deeply about it, because the only outcome I can see is that it increases the chance you are lynched a ton.

<snip>

Why are you withholding information from the town in #170?

<snip>

Because the information I was withholding was that the only reasonable play that made sense to me was that OMG was maybe a cop, who had investigated EJ as another cop. And being a fan of Fancy Play, had decided there was a good chance he could get his peek out there for free (assuming the other cop figured out what was going on) and get both village's cops 'clear' and not in danger of being NK'd.

Or that he had peeked EJ evil, and figured that he would go along with it, or some other variation.

I don't claim to understand how OMG's brain works, just that there was a far higher chance he was the cop than scum.

This is obviously not what happened, but you can see why putting that thought out there could have been harmfull to the village?

For the record, I'm fairly certain atak was thinking exactly the same thing if you re-read his posts from the same time.

[Hitch]

TCS isn't being very villagery today imo.

[StrangerCoug]

If you are evil, what possible motivation do you have to claim masons with a player whom you do not know the role of?

Think beyond Level 1 here. Think deeply about it, because the only outcome I can see is that it increases the chance you are lynched a ton.

The only thing that comes immediately to mind given this info is being crazy. I'm not denying that scum are gamblers, because I've gambled as scum myself, and on a role (or, strictly speaking, a role's sanity) to boot.

<snip>

Why are you withholding information from the town in #170?

<snip>

Because the information I was withholding was that the only reasonable play that made sense to me was that OMG was maybe a cop, who had investigated EJ as another cop. And being a fan of Fancy Play, had decided there was a good chance he could get his peek out there for free (assuming the other cop figured out what was going on) and get both village's cops 'clear' and not in danger of being NK'd.

Or that he had peeked EJ evil, and figured that he would go along with it, or some other variation.

I don't claim to understand how OMG's brain works, just that there was a far higher chance he was the cop than scum.

This is obviously not what happened, but you can see why putting that thought out there could have been harmfull to the village?

Cops are rarely given information other than innocent or guilty about someone's role. (They exist on MS, though, if more frequently on the Mafia side—they're given the more specific name "role cop".) Other than that, this makes sense to me.

[Hitch]

OK, I'm changing my vote to

zhoarx

because we need to apply some pressure to the players that aren't posting, lest an andgame arrive where 5 people havn't said shit for days.

In addition, this is wholly inappropriate for this player in particular.

Can I suggest that a few others follw me here in an effort to get him to post. If he doesn't start posting we lynch him, if he does we move onto the next afk person. Deal?

This is massively in the town's interest.

[Hitch]

Mod can we please get an updated list of who is actually in the game

What I mean is a list of players that say who is in, who replaced who and who is still waiting for a replacement.

for example, I have no idea if siesta is still in the game or if we are awaiting a replacement for him/her?

[StrangerCoug]

*goes to sleep*

[darkdude]

Mod can we please get an updated list of who is actually in the game

Currently

Mada and Stef

are officially out of the game and need replacement. All the other players should be in the game as they have not indicated to me any intentions suggesting otherwise.

[darkdude]

Vote Count for Day 2

There are 16 Alive, so 9 to Lynch

The Central Scrutinizer [1] (StrangerCoug, )
zhaorx [1] (Hitch, )

Hitch [0] ()
StrangerCoug [0] ()
M1KEMMIEMIEMKEMIKE [0] ()
matrix [0] ()
well-named [0] ()
hewitt [0] ()
ScottHoward [0] ()
Sun Tzu [0] ()
Caboose [0] ()
Stef [0] ()
norseman1066 [0] ()
SiestaGuru [0] ()
oEJo [0] ()
Mada [0] ()

No Lynch [0] ()

Not Voting [14] (Stef, oEJo, SiestaGuru, ScottHoward, M1KEMMIEMIEMKEMIKE, hewitt, zhaorx, norseman1066, The Central Scrutinizer, well-named, Sun Tzu, Mada, Caboose, matrix, )

[darkdude]

And to all 2+2 players

Please use the format

Vote: asdf

.

[hewitt]

Okay so in response yeah you're correct in that I don't believe in lynch all liars. That would be great and perfect if all the liars were scum but sometimes town lies to...such as OMG. And while that's really freakin' obnoxious and unhelpful it just sucks because you can never be quite sure they're scum. Some townspeople do it because they panic about being lynched and decide their more important than the rest of the town and claim. So yeah I don't believe in lynch all liars.

In response to the sarcasm, yeah it was very sarcastic and that's unhelpful to but I can't help it sometimes. I'm a pretty sarcastic person so it's very hard for me to hold it off (which shouldn't be confused with arrogance).

[hewitt]

What a shocker, OMG was vanilla townie. I'm just oh so surprised. Anyways, scotthoward made a couple of really good points. And I also still have no idea who's a 2p2 player and who's a ms player...except scotthoward...that one's pretty obvious.

So why were we targeting OMG in the first place again? Besides the whole fake claim thing because a couple of people did that and it's more consistent with his gamestyle anyways so that's a crap reason.

And again, yeah I was being sarcastic here. I thought I made it fairly obvious enough but apparently not. I wasn't really surprised that OMG was vanilla townie. That's why I said 'I'm just oh so surprised'.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

If I were town-aligned, then I might have been engaging in a stupid game to try to get the scum NOT to shoot The Fonz. Or I was just being an asshole. You choose.

Your wording here suggests that you are

NOT

town-aligned. Congratulations on your slip.

Vote: The Central Scrutinizer

vote: StrangerCoug

I've been using that syntactical structure (if I were X, I would do/have done/might do X) for 90% of my posts this game.

You claimed that you read my posts and even pretended to do a little pretty analysis thing. That you would treat something I have done all game as a slip-up indicates that this is clearly a lie on your part. That you chose me to cast suspicion on, when you

clearly haven't read a word I've posted

up to this point is an iron-clad scum tell.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

TCS isn't being very villagery today imo.

How is my posting thus far anti-town? In one post I moved forward with content more than I did all of last day.

Also, lurker-lynching is just awful play right now. If I weren't voting for the skimming scum StrangerCoug, I'd vote you.

I'll settle for

FoS: Hitch

.

[hewitt]

If I were town-aligned, then I might have been engaging in a stupid game to try to get the scum NOT to shoot The Fonz. Or I was just being an asshole. You choose.

Your wording here suggests that you are

NOT

town-aligned. Congratulations on your slip.

Vote: The Central Scrutinizer

vote: StrangerCoug

I've been using that syntactical structure (if I were X, I would do/have done/might do X) for 90% of my posts this game.

You claimed that you read my posts and even pretended to do a little pretty analysis thing. That you would treat something I have done all game as a slip-up indicates that this is clearly a lie on your part. That you chose me to cast suspicion on, when you

clearly haven't read a word I've posted

up to this point is an iron-clad scum tell.

Okay this was a little interesting because I looked back and The Central Scrutinizer did use the whole if I were town, if I were blank quite a few times so it really is kind of funny that Strangercougar would say that. I don't necessarily see it as reason quite yet to vote for him but it certainly does throw him in a whole different light for me.

I also find it kind of amusing that The Central Scrutinizer is the one who claimed vigilante a while back and is now proposing that we lynch those who claim. As long as your playing by your own rules...

[The Central Scrutinizer]

If I were town-aligned, then I might have been engaging in a stupid game to try to get the scum NOT to shoot The Fonz. Or I was just being an asshole. You choose.

Your wording here suggests that you are

NOT

town-aligned. Congratulations on your slip.

Vote: The Central Scrutinizer

vote: StrangerCoug

I've been using that syntactical structure (if I were X, I would do/have done/might do X) for 90% of my posts this game.

You claimed that you read my posts and even pretended to do a little pretty analysis thing. That you would treat something I have done all game as a slip-up indicates that this is clearly a lie on your part. That you chose me to cast suspicion on, when you

clearly haven't read a word I've posted

up to this point is an iron-clad scum tell.

Okay this was a little interesting because I looked back and The Central Scrutinizer did use the whole if I were town, if I were blank quite a few times so it really is kind of funny that Strangercougar would say that. I don't necessarily see it as reason quite yet to vote for him but it certainly does throw him in a whole different light for me.

I also find it kind of amusing that The Central Scrutinizer is the one who claimed vigilante a while back and is now proposing that we lynch those who claim. As long as your playing by your own rules...

From this point on... clearly everything I did day one was me fucking around.

[Hitch]

Darkdude ; sorry, I'll try and remember to format my votes correctly.

TCS isn't being very villagery today imo.

How is my posting thus far anti-town? In one post I moved forward with content more than I did all of last day.

Also, lurker-lynching is just awful play right now. If I weren't voting for the skimming scum StrangerCoug, I'd vote you.

I'll settle for

FoS: Hitch

.

More content than you did all of last day is still very little content.

What do you think of every player in the game and why?

Also, thinking I'm scum just because I can't see anything townie you've done, when you haven't done anything townie is not a great reaction.

[Hitch]

also, TCS, what is your play for dealing with the players that aren't posting? I've stated mine.

I assume yours is just to let them get to endgame with no way of desciphering their roles. That's pretty anti-town behaviour if you ask me.

[StrangerCoug]

If I were town-aligned, then I might have been engaging in a stupid game to try to get the scum NOT to shoot The Fonz. Or I was just being an asshole. You choose.

Your wording here suggests that you are

NOT

town-aligned. Congratulations on your slip.

Vote: The Central Scrutinizer

vote: StrangerCoug

I've been using that syntactical structure (if I were X, I would do/have done/might do X) for 90% of my posts this game.

You claimed that you read my posts and even pretended to do a little pretty analysis thing. That you would treat something I have done all game as a slip-up indicates that this is clearly a lie on your part. That you chose me to cast suspicion on, when you

clearly haven't read a word I've posted

up to this point is an iron-clad scum tell.

Welcome to OMGUS land. I was not concerned about that structure because you said nothing to imply you weren't town when I made the analysis—in fact, I did a Ctrl+F on your posts to make sure. Now you have. It is your job to convince us that you are town.

NOT

to hint at otherwise. I have no problems with you saying "if I were a cop", "if I were a doc", "if I were a mason", or "if I were the vig", though I'll read it as you not being the roles in question. "If I were scum" is risking WIFOM and would probably be something I'd call you out for. "If I were town" implies that you are scum.

It's called the subjunctive mood, The Central Scrutinizer. Now, if you said "If I

AM

cop/doc/mason/vig", then it'd be a whole different story as they are not subjunctive and you therefore imply that those are valid possibilities. The same goes for "if I am town/scum", but you shouldn't need the former and should only be using the latter with a good reason to do so.

Do you understand why I'm jumping on you?

I also find it kind of amusing that The Central Scrutinizer is the one who claimed vigilante a while back and is now proposing that we lynch those who claim.

This is noted.

[Sun Tzu]

lol @ strangercoug saying there is a meaningful difference between subjunctive and conditional

What is the point of making a statement and implying it's not a valid possibility? The distinction is worthless.

Hitch is still scum. Now he wants to lynch the quiet players. I guess in principle it's good for the metagame to lynch quiet players to encourage posting, but he knows the players not posting are often disinterested townies. Also, zhaorx is a bad choice since I'm pretty sure he hasn't posted on 2p2 for a while now and Hitch knows this. It's not like zhaorx is around but not posting.

vote Hitch