Open 108 - Weak M.D. - Game over before 725

[Gamma]

This is not that kind of game, Gamma

Seriously, answer me properly.

I like to entertain all sorts of angles. Not to mention someone will consider it OMGUS to call out a player who is voting someone. It's human nature, a first instinct.

[Incognito]

Vote Count #6 of Day 1

Korts (1) <-~ popsofctown
Gamma (3) <-~ Netlava, ryan2754, GIEFF
ryan2754 (4) <-~ Badguy, Caboose, roflcopter, EsoMonty
popsofctown (1) <-~ BlakAdder

Not Voting (3) <-~ BSG, Gamma, Korts

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch!

[Korts]

Not to mention someone will consider it OMGUS to call out a player who is voting someone.

Give this sentence another go, please. I can't figure out what exactly this means...

[Gamma]

Not to mention someone will consider it OMGUS to call out a player who is voting someone.

Give this sentence another go, please. I can't figure out what exactly this means...

Listen harder.

If I made large and unsightly case against someone who had just voted me, would it not sound a little like revenge?

[Korts]

Not to mention someone will consider it OMGUS to call out a player who is voting someone.

Give this sentence another go, please. I can't figure out what exactly this means...

Listen harder.

If I made large and unsightly case against someone who had just voted me, would it not sound a little like revenge?

OK, I thought that's what you wanted to say. But "someone" is a very general term; "call out a player who is voting someone" does not equal "call out a player who is voting someone on their wagon".

Either way, cases against someone who voted you aren't definitely OMGUS. If you make your reasons for suspicion clear, any accusation of OMGUS will be invalid. As long as your reasons make sense, of course.

(for simplicity's sake I'm not going to start arguing that OMGUS doesn't even exist in practice)

[Korts]

EBWOP: left a bit out...

Either way, cases against someone who voted you aren't definitely OMGUS. If you make your reasons for suspicion clear, any accusation of OMGUS will be invalid. As long as your reasons make sense, of course.

Thus, since you were already supposedly preparing a case, pre-emptively defending yourself against any OMGUS accusation makes you look like you have motive to think you'll have to defend yourself and your case.

[popsofctown]

Sure Korts can start the claiming.

I just wanted to get it ironed out because i thought we were nearing a lynch

because i forgot i was in a 12 player game instead of 9

.

So, hypo claiming is decided and i can start scumhunting.

Korts has a point, it's a bit paranoid to talk about OMGUS before you make a case. It's a term that gets misused a lot, i'd rather not have a armchair discussion about attacks with OMGUS components...

I don't see why Ryan is getting so much flak right now. Can someone summarize? I don't have a handle on this game yet but i need to get my foot in the door on it.
I'm not liking Gamma's circle talking right now. Basic "confusing the town" behavior.

[Gamma]

What is confusing the town to you may seem like general logic to another person.

[popsofctown]

It will most likely get called out as OMGUS. that's fine with me.

Why pre-emptively defend OMGUS accusations? Are you deliberately making an OMGUS case?

Do you want it to be an OMGUS case?

Would you answer my question with something other than a question, please?

And if I don't?

To understate, this isn't productive material you're putting out Gamma

[Incognito]

magisterrain replaces Caboose effective immediately. Thanks, magisterrain!

[Gamma]

It will most likely get called out as OMGUS. that's fine with me.

Why pre-emptively defend OMGUS accusations? Are you deliberately making an OMGUS case?

Do you want it to be an OMGUS case?

Would you answer my question with something other than a question, please?

And if I don't?

To understate, this isn't productive material you're putting out Gamma

You're running around in circles tailing my posts.

[GIEFF]

Stop quoting the whole posts. It's bad enough when you spam the thread, Gamma, but quoting the whole post like that for no reason makes it much harder to read back through the thread.


Your behavior doesn't make sense to me, Gamma. First you complain that there is no scumhunting going on, yet contribute almost nothing. When you finally start posting (only after being accused of lurking and accruing some votes), you make one scumhunt post, and then follow it up with inane meaningless posts that only serve to distract and confuse the town.

[magisterrain]

checking in. i'll try to have this read and comment by later today.

[magisterrain]

oh,

unvote

for now

[Badguy]

Welcome, magisterrain. Thanks for replacing.

Are you still happy with your vote of ryan?

No,

unvote: ryan2754

.

You

still

haven't questioned rofl about his vote. Do you mean there are better targets than rofl, or better targets than you? Because you claimed that voting for ryan for no reason was suspicious, it is odd that you ignored this subsequent behavior by rofl, especially as it was the fourth vote for ryan rather than the second.

I still havn't questioned rofl on his vote because there is more scummy behavior going on right now that I plan to address today.

The question remains, though; why do you think voting for "seemingly serious" reasons on day 1 is a scumtell? And if you don't think it is a scumtell, why did you use it to justify your vote?

It isn't much of a scum tell. I used it just to add to my first reason. All it would really prove is that ryan2754 is a new player not accustomed to random voting.

I also agree that we should wait on the hypoclaims until we are much closer to a lynch.

Good idea.

@BlakAdder: I would like to hear more from you. You still have your vote on popsofctown from post 26. It was a joke vote. Do you still like where your vote is? Are you purposely not scumhunting or do you feel that there hasn't been enough said by anyone to question them? Finally, what do you think of Gamma?

[Korts]

Gamma is unhelpful to a painful extent. Add to that the pre-emptive defense of his case on ryan, and we have a scummyperson.

vote: Gamma

[Gamma]

Gamma is unhelpful to a painful extent. Add to that the pre-emptive defense of his case on ryan, and we have a scummyperson.

vote: Gamma

Am I supposed to be scared?

[GIEFF]

The question remains, though; why do you think voting for "seemingly serious" reasons on day 1 is a scumtell? And if you don't think it is a scumtell, why did you use it to justify your vote?

It isn't much of a scum tell. I used it just to add to my first reason. All it would really prove is that ryan2754 is a new player not accustomed to random voting.

You "used it just to add to your first reason?" Why did you feel the need to add something as a reason if you don't believe it to be true? Only scum needs to fabricate false reasons for a vote.

Scum KNOW who is town and who isn't, so they don't need to scumhunt; what they do is pretend to scumhunt to blend in. This is an obvious point, but as far as I'm concerned, it is the best strategy to find scum; look for faulty reasoning explaining a vote, and that person is likely scum.

So, hypo claiming is decided and i can start scumhunting.

This struck me as odd. Why did you feel the need to wait until the hypoclaiming was decided to start scumhunting? Have you noticed suspicious things and consciously waited to post them until the hypoclaiming is over, or do you mean that you just haven't noticed anything scummy yet?


Esomonty's recent behavior has been odd as well:


In post 106

unvote

I am unsure of how I feel about ryan at the moment. I don't have a good idea on where to vote. So, I am going to stay unvoted at the moment. Allow myself the ability to reread the entire thread again and then come back to a vote.

Then in post post 132

here. Didn't mean to be a fence sitter. I got busy at work and was unable to review it. Then forgot, then site went down.

Ryan is all I got.

Vote: ryan2574

I don't think anybody accused you of fence-sitting. Why do you feel the need to vote if you "don't have a good idea" of where to do so? Why did you feel the need to unvote if you were just going to vote for the same person again later? Worrying more about how your vote is perceived than about actually voting for scum is quite scummy.

It's hard to judge who exactly is lurking based on the downtime, but Blakadder and rofl haven't posted much in a while. rofl, you last posted on Monday before the crash, and I'm still waiting for your reasoning behind your vote of ryan.

Blakadder's lurking has been far worse, though. Blakadder, you posted an "I'm here" after the crash, but nothing before that since last Friday (a week ago). And your posts before that were just about the hypoclaim; why haven't you done any scumhunting yet? I also echo BadGuy's above questions for you:

Do you still like where your vote is? Are you purposely not scumhunting or do you feel that there hasn't been enough said by anyone to question them? Finally, what do you think of Gamma?

Here is a summary of the voting history thus far; I've found it can be useful to analyze vote patterns in this way. A few things strike me as odd:

• Netlava hasn't changed his vote or FOS'd anybody since his post 10 random vote for Gamma.
  
• BlakAdder hasn't changed his vote or FOS'd anybody since his post 26 joke-vote for pops.
  
• pops hasn't changed his vote or FOS's anybody since his post 64 joke-vote for Korts.
  
• BSG hasn't voted or FOS'd at all.

Netlava's reasons for voting Gamma appear to be valid, so it is no longer really a random vote, but for BlakAdder, pops, and BSG: why haven't you voted or FOS'd anyone for non-joke reasons?

Votes by Character:

roflcopter

vote: korts, fos: caboose Post 6
unvote, vote: ryan Post 89

Netlava

Vote: Gamma Post 10

magisterrain

Vote: sekinj

(Posted as Caboose)

Post 14
Unvote Vote: Gamma

(Posted as Caboose)

Post 70
Unvote Vote: ryan2754

(Posted as Caboose)

Post 82
unvote Post 163

BlakAdder

vote: GIEFF Post 15
unvote, vote:popsofctown Post 26

ryan2754

Vote: GIEFF Post 16
Unvote , Vote: Gamma Post 71

Badguy

Vote Caboose. Post 18
Unvote, Vote Gamma. Post 23
Unvote, Vote ryan2754 Post 76
unvote: ryan2754 Post 164

Korts

vote: Netlava Post 20
unvote, vote: ryan Post 73
unvote Post 104
vote: Gamma Post 165

EsoMonty

vote: ryan2754 Post 21
unvote Post 106
Vote: ryan2574 Post 132

popsofctown

vote: Korts Post 22
Revote: Korts Post 64

GIEFF

FoS Gamma Post 55
Vote: Gamma, FOS Badguy Post 103

Gamma

fos ryan2754 Post 143

Votes by Chronology:

Post Number

Poster

Vote

Post 6

roflcopter

vote: korts fos: caboose
Post 10

Netlava

Vote: Gamma
Post 14

Caboose

Vote: sekinj
Post 15

BlakAdder

vote: GIEFF
Post 16

ryan2754

Vote: GIEFF
Post 18

Badguy

Vote Caboose.
Post 20

Korts

vote: Netlava
Post 21

EsoMonty

vote: ryan2754
Post 22

popsofctown

vote: Korts
Post 23

Badguy

Unvote, Vote Gamma.
Post 26

BlakAdder

unvote, vote:popsofctown
Post 55

GIEFF

FoS Gamma
Post 64

popsofctown

Revote: Korts
Post 70

Caboose

Unvote Vote: Gamma
Post 71

ryan2754

Unvote Vote: Gamma
Post 73

Korts

unvote, vote: ryan
Post 76

Badguy

Unvote, Vote ryan2754
Post 82

Caboose

Unvote Vote: ryan2754
Post 89

roflcopter

unvote, vote: ryan
Post 103

GIEFF

Vote: Gamma FOS Badguy
Post 104

Korts

unvote
Post 106

EsoMonty

unvote
Post 132

EsoMonty

Vote: ryan2574
Post 143

Gamma

fos ryan2754
Post 163

magisterrain

unvote
Post 164

Badguy

unvote: ryan2754
Post 165

Korts

vote: Gamma

[popsofctown]

He is being unhelpful, and you can call his pre-emptive OMGUS phobia a pre-strawman if you look at it another way (it looks horrible all the ways). I'd second the vote, but I want this day to last long enough for Hiders and Doctors to get good targets. I want to get fake targets i can be happy with on both, which could take a while since i'd need a lynch target, a second scummy person, and someone i think is town. That's a lot of work..

HoS: Gamma

Gamma, please play to whatever win condition you have and defend yourself.

[Korts]

Gamma is unhelpful to a painful extent. Add to that the pre-emptive defense of his case on ryan, and we have a scummyperson.

vote: Gamma

Am I supposed to be scared?

No, you're supposed to start helping the town again; one single post making a case on ryan does not make you exempt from any further efforts. But I guess an admission of anti-town intentions is good enough too.

And thank you, GIEFF, for the vote analysis. I think that's helpful. According to your records, Gamma hasn't voted anyone as of now, which seems to be further proof of his lack of enthusiasm in finding scum.

I endorse other people joining this wagon.

[popsofctown]

ooh, simulposting.

I see why the quote would look weird GIEFF. TBH, i for some reason can't think about two things at once, so i didn't have any targets at all in mind. Up till the point of that statement i was working on getting a hypoclaim system down, and finally had to swtich gears and actually understand this thread. I think maybe GIEFF's posting maybe makes it hard to read, but for some reason this thread is hard, and stuff keeps going in one ear and out the other. I've tried rereading it but, it doesn't help much.

[GIEFF]

Sorry if my posting is making the thread hard to read, pops; what can I do to make it easier to read?

I don't buy the "can't multitask" reason for not voting or scumhunting, pops. In the course of reading the thread, don't things naturally jump out at you as being scummy, or even just as being odd? Don't you see others' votes and ask yourself if you agree with their logic? Also, it looks like you are in three other games right now; is both scumhunting and discussing strategy in one game really more difficult than playing in four games at once? I'll ask again:

Have you noticed suspicious things and consciously waited to post them until the hypoclaiming is over, or do you mean that you just haven't noticed anything scummy yet?

Also, if anybody sees any errors or omissions in the vote history, please let me know. It is automated, so mistakes are possible (especially if someone doesn't bold or misspells the words "vote"or "FOS").

[Badguy]

Why did you feel the need to add something as a reason if you don't believe it to be true?

It seemed odd to me at first so I put it in there to add to ryan's strange behavior. Looking back now, yah, it doesn't really prove anything as I've said before.

Also, nice vote analysis.

I still right now just want to hear more from BlakAdder.

Gamma is #1 on my scum list right now for the "Am I supposed to be scared?" line and being very very anti-town.

Vote: Gamma

.

Replaced by Xtoxm. - Incog-Mod.

[Korts]

That's L-2. I don't think we should go any closer at this game state.

Gamma, you can claim if you wish.

Any further players who intend to vote Gamma, please, do not officially do it, just express your intent.

[popsofctown]

I don't buy the "can't multitask" reason for not voting or scumhunting, pops. In the course of reading the thread, don't things naturally jump out at you as being scummy, or even just as being odd? Don't you see others' votes and ask yourself if you agree with their logic? Also, it looks like you are in three other games right now; is both scumhunting and discussing strategy in one game really more difficult than playing in four games at once? I'll ask again:

Have you noticed suspicious things and consciously waited to post them until the hypoclaiming is over, or do you mean that you just haven't noticed anything scummy yet?

Alright, I'm not gonna lie. I'm more interested in my other games than this one right now, and i'm giving it less energy. As pennance, i'm gonna do a reread right after this post, RL time permitting.

I haven't noticed anything scummy yet, the second one.

I think the length of your posts is what makes this thread hard to read. I'm not sure whether it's bad for the town or good for the town... do what you can to clarify more than you clutterfy if you can.

Any further players who intend to vote Gamma, please, do not officially do it, just express your intent.

I have my own convention for this, i'm trying to popularize it to wiki level fame!

Cupcake: Gamma

[deadpan]Although my vote on Korts is a dead serious correct application of Gambler's Fallacy [/deadpan]