Mini 720 - SPQR Mafia {Game Over}

[Yosarian2]

Yos's poor attacks against EA makes me even more suspicious of him.

?

Poor attacks?

Do you really think EA dosn't look scummy here, charter?

And what do you mean, "even more" suspicious of me? You haven't given any reason to be suspicious of me yet.

[charter]

I happen to agree with what he's saying. I thought Xtoxm was a poor idea yesterday, and you've provided not a whole lot since then. After he brings this up, you're magically suspicious of him as well. I don't think your case against him is good at all, and it only came after he posted suspicion against you, and you leave out other lurkers (cough dahill cough).
Granted I don't think EA hasn't done a whole lot either, but I don't think he's scum (largely because I think he's right).

Plus, you single out EA after he calls you out, when there are plenty of others not talking (in my opinion saying even less than EA).

And what do you mean, "even more" suspicious of me? You haven't given any reason to be suspicious of me yet.

I've been lazy, but the suspicion has been there, as I've said. I'll try and post why I'm suspicious later if you really want.

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote Count:

6 to lynch.

dahill1: 3 (charter, Tuberkulos, Coriolanus)
Yosarian2: 2 (Glork, Erratus Apathos)
Coriolanus: 1 (El Destructo)
Erratus Apathos: 1 (Yosarian2)
El Destructo: 1 (Incognito)

Not Voting: 2 (dahill1, Assmaster)

[Yosarian2]

I'm not going after EA "because he didn't say much". It's because of the way that he keeps using craplogic for bad attacks on people, and this isn't the first time I've pointed this out, either.

Well, that, and because he's scum.

[Yosarian2]

Also, I notice you didn't actually answer my question.

Do you really think EA dosn't look scummy here, charter?

[dahill1]

sorry trying to get into this game
quick thoughts re: EA and Yos
they both were kind of hypocritical in attacking each other for not contributing and leaving me and assmaster out. but i really dislike Yos' vote back at EA after the exchange

I'm not going after EA "because he didn't say much". It's because of the way that he keeps using craplogic for bad attacks on people, and this isn't the first time I've pointed this out, either.

Well, that, and because he's scum.

this paragraph makes it seem like it

You're doing the same bullshit you tried day 1, again, when you complained about my contributions while you hadn't done anything yet. I'm posting and actually doing stuff, and you're really not; this is only your third post of the month, and the first two were complete garbage, as I pointed out about your Glork case at the time; and yet you again act like I'm the one who's not scumhunting, just because I haven't voted yet today?

[charter]

I'm not going after EA "because he didn't say much". It's because of the way that he keeps using craplogic for bad attacks on people, and this isn't the first time I've pointed this out, either.

Well, that, and because he's scum.

That isn't what I gathered from your post. You talked a lot about EA's contributions in the post you voted him.

Also, I notice you didn't actually answer my question.

Do you really think EA dosn't look scummy here, charter?

Correct.

[Yosarian2]

Do you really think EA dosn't look scummy here, charter?

Correct.[/quote]

Well then, I would suggest going back and re-reading his posts in isolation.

this paragraph makes it seem like it

That's not me attacking him for not contributing, that's me responding to his craplogic reason for voting me. I mean, HE thinks I haven't been scumhunting? Where does he get off saying that?

Besides, the point you guys seem to be missing here is that he's scum. I mean, just read his posts for crying out loud. I'll admit I didn't pay as much attention to him as I should have been until he voted me, but once I took a good look at his "contributions" so far this game, it because blatently obvious that he was scum.

[charter]

Xtoxm was scum too, that worked out well for you...

[charter]

So you're going to have to say more than 'EA is scum' if you want me to believe it.

[Yosarian2]

Xtoxm was scum too, that worked out well for you...

Yeah, I'm still waiting for that to be revealed as a mod error.

Especally after he actually ADMITTED that he was delibratly being evasive, for crying out loud. How the @#@# did he flip town? I mean, seriously?

[Yosarian2]

So you're going to have to say more than 'EA is scum' if you want me to believe it.

Sure. Basically, the problem I have with EA is, every single time he's tried to make a case against someone all game, it's been complete craplogic; none of his cases make any sense at all. He keeps moving his vote, often to whoever seems like an easy target, but all of his reasons are just terrible. I just really doubt that he could be a good guy actually looking for scum.

Here; let me quote every singe attack he has made against anyone all game.

No. Just seeing if Ass's idea has any effect...

I'm just mucking about, it's the random phase.

Which is it?

Not liking Yos2's "contributions" so far.

Unvote
Vote: Yosarian2

We already established why this one was garbage; moving on.

Not liking Yos2's "contributions" so far.

Unvote
Vote: Yosarian2

unvote
vote: Erratus Apathos

EA votes Yosarian for "not liking his 'contributions' ", but doesn't back it up. It just looks like some random activity to me until he finds a better target.

I cast a one line vote based on a very early feel, and you predict that I'm probably not going to keep it for the rest of the game? Bold prophecy there, Miss Cleo!

I don't see anything wrong with Yosarian so far. Testing the waters with the alt question was also of interest for me. I'm curious in which way Coriolanus will react to a different subject in the future.

You could end this paragraph with "I'm chainsaw-defending Yos2!" in bold red using the largest font and it wouldn't be much more obvious than it already is.

Not liking Yos2's "contributions" so far.

Unvote
Vote: Yosarian2

This is the sum total of your "contributions" so far.

Vote: xtoxm

FoS: Glork

How do you know Yos isn't tricking scum?

Trust me, an octopus would be FoSing Yos, too.

Octopuses don't have fingers. Lynch the liar!

Unvote
Vote: Glork

Random vote, pointless questions, joke vote.

I'm doing my best to discuss an actual game relevent issue here, and to use pressure to try to get moving. You have done nothing.

Why it's almost as if those posts came during the random voting stage! What actual game relevant issue are you talking about here by the way, that Coriolanus alt bullshit that it seems nobody even mention anymore without saying something like "but I don't think it's a tell, it's just really really interesting"?

What, exactally, do you have against my "contributions"?

I can't see how they lead to finding scum.

Interesting point Yos makes against Erratus.

What's interesting about it?

RV's opportunistic chainsaw vote is the scummiest thing yet.

Unvote
Vote: Rally Vincent

Rally Vincent points out how his attack on me is craplogic and votes him for it, so he OMGUS, calling the vote a "chainsaw defense". Again, total craplogic. If you make a weak, scummy looking attack against someone, and someone else calls you on it, you don't get to just yell "chainsaw defense!" and think that gets you out of trouble.

A question to Incognito, Glork, Yosarian2, Erratus Apathos, Rally Vincent, probably some other people I'm forgetting:
Are you in fact aware of the full case against Dahill? What do you think of the contrast between this and this?

No, I wasn't aware of dahill's post in the 5 things I hate thread. I don't read bitch threads.

While I don't agree that those points are necessarily contradictory, if dahill is town I'd expect him to have pointed out why they weren't contradictory as soon as it was brought up. Instead, he distanced himself from the MD post by effectively claiming that he was only quoting Glork as a devil's advocate. I don't buy it. "take it away, glrok!" sounds much more like someone who knows he's soundly owning animorpher than someone who's trying to start an argument.

Do you typically skim over large parts of the game? Genuine question, because this quote really gives me that impression. Your sum up of the dahill case in particular is clearly wrong.

Yes I skim a lot, but prior to making that post I scoured through dahill's voters' posts looking specifically for the case against him (as well as skimming over his posts myself. Same goes for xtoxm and coriolanus). There's no way I would have missed a clear argument against him - the 5 things I hate contradiction most definitely not being clear.

Unvote
Vote: dahill1

Following the dahill wagon; he's bascially just repeating things other people said, and all in all he's making a really weak argument here, IMHO.

Then, today, his attack on Glork:

(For the record, yes, I still firmly believe that dahill is protown.)

When did you firmly believe he was protown prior to this?

Vote: Glork

Which he then "explained" in this post:

(For the record, yes, I still firmly believe that dahill is protown.)

When did you firmly believe he was protown prior to this?

Vote: Glork

If I gave off any other impression, please point that out.

EBWOP: I'm still not really sure why there's a wagon on dahill -- it seems like the four votes currently on him are for things that I haven't thought to be a particularly big deal, though maybe I've just been tunnel-visioned on the two likely scumbaggoes. I'll check out dahill soon (as in, over N1 probably) and get back to you with a verdict.

As I pointed out, that explination was crap as well. That earlier Glork posts, if anything, reinforces what Glork is saying, which is that he's though dahill was probably town for a while. He's quibbling over details, in a way that dosn't make much sense. (I think there was one more follow up post he made which was lost in one of the crashes; still, this argument is crap.)

And then finally, his craplogic attack on me for "not scumhunting", which is funny considering the quality of EA's scumhunting so far this game.

That is every single attack EA made on anyone all game, (ignoring a few early random/joke votes). Not one of them, at all, anywhere, looks like what I would expect to see from a pro-town guy actually hunting scum.

[Tuberkulos]

This thread kind of lost me due to the vacation and server problem thingy, so I'll have to do a little re-read.

nothing. i thought i saw something, but i decided i didn't.

What did you think that you saw? (Is that sentence correct? It sounds so wrong when I read it out loud to myself.)

Still waiting for an answer.

Glork, what do you think that Dahill1 have done that makes him look protown?

Still waiting for an answer.

[El Destructo]

BUENOS DIÃ

[Glork]

Is there a particular reason you can't post your own thoughts without consulting your partner first?

[El Destructo]

He could, and he might. I was meant to have finished my read yesterday but IRL happened. The plan had been for us each to read, discuss and post. We both thought reading the game independently before discussing things would probably be more productive and interesting (synergy, etc).

So far, most of our discussion has been about how we're going to manage this double-head. I sent Elmo a very crude list of my reads based on what I've read (up to page 12) with little reasoning just to give him an idea of what I was thinking. That's been the extent of our game-related discussion.

Given that he's done with his read and I'm not, I've suggested to Elmo that he post anything he feels comfortable about posting short of a vote.

des

[charter]

Yos, I'll take a closer look at it, but I feel (without actually checking) you can say the same thing replacing EA with dahill or RV (now elmo/destructor). Can you give opinions on dahill and RV/replacement as well. EA does have a point that up until that last post, you haven't said hardly anything today.

[Incognito]

I do think Yosarian2 makes a valid point about Erratus Apathos -- it doesn't seem natural to me for Erratus Apathos to start off D2 with a vote on Glork, end D1 with a vote on dahill1, conclude in his 468 that he's leaning town on both of them, and then vote Yosarian2 shortly after Glork had reasonless voted for him. I'd think if Erratus Apathos was truly suspicious of Glork, he might have questioned his Yos2-vote rather than just following Glork's suit after this stretch of time since EA's second to last post. I don't even remember EA acknowledging Yos2's 447 or Tuberkulos's 448 where they both comment on the Glork-posts EA brought forward.

Erratus Apathos, can you explain your thought process as to how you suddenly arrived at town reads on Glork and dahill1?

[Yosarian2]

Yos, I'll take a closer look at it, but I feel (without actually checking) you can say the same thing replacing EA with dahill or RV (now elmo/destructor). Can you give opinions on dahill and RV/replacement as well.

On RV; let's see. (reads) He didn't do that much before he started lurking and eventually had to be replaced. I like his early attack on EA, that makes sense to me. It does bug me the way he voted Coriolanus with fairly minimal reason (mostly the "he's trying to save Xtoxm as bait" argument), saying it was because of the deadline and because no one was willing to follow him on EA; then on day 2, he starts off saying:

Vote: Coriolanus

. Same reasons as yesterday.

That's kind of odd; wasn't his position day 1 that he was willing to settle on Coriolanus only as a second choice because he didn't think his main choice should be lynched?

Other then that weirdness, though, I don't really see much else actually scummy from him, although that's probably partly because he didn't say much else. Interested to see what his replacements have to say.

As for dahill: I don't really have a problem with his play, but looking at Incog's post just above mine, I think I won't say anything more specific until EA answers Incog's questions.

EA does have a point that up until that last post, you haven't said hardly anything today.

Eh...I don't think that's true. Most of my posts today have been trying to figure Glork out, because I have mixed feelings on him and I'm trying to pin them down. I hadn't been especally agressive against anyone yet, but that's not the same as doing nothing. (I clearly did seem to get a reaction out of Glork, after all...still interested to see where that leads.)

[El Destructo]

Is there a particular reason you can't post your own thoughts without consulting your partner first?

I figured it would be cool if we read it in isolation from each other and then compared notes, see what was the same and what was different. Then I got his PM and while a few things we seem to agree on, other bits are pretty much exact opposites; in particular, EA seemed like painful obv scum to me and Yos2 seemed much closer to my experinces of TownYos than ScumYos at minimum, I've probably put him at prob town if he hadn't got that scummy thinigummie. Des thinks EA is really town and Yos is obv scum. Erk. So I was kind of a bit put off posting that until we'd talked about it at least a little, I don't know what I'd do if double-heads disagreed that much. Also logically at least one of us has to be wrong. Hopefully we'll talk it ovah.

I also think that Glork's closer to when I saw him as scum, and you can read whatever you want into Patetheric getting killed N1 but they both know him real well, and they didn't like what they saw either. So yeah, not really liking him at the moment. No, I don't have anything specific yet, go away.

(For the record, yes, I still firmly believe that dahill is protown.)

When did you firmly believe he was protown prior to this? Vote: Glork

This is a really really really bad vote. My impression is that he's distancing/bussing from Glork, since I recall he was bus-happy in another game I read, but I pretty much hate it with a burning passion regardless of Glork's alignment. What Incog just said is also a pretty big deal in my mind, that Glork vote really didn't have any teeth, did it?

Those are kind of the big two on my mind. Tuber and charter both seem to have gone by without a lot of prodding. I think charter is ok so far, but I have a bigger question mark about Tuber. I don't really like what he's been posting, but it's a pretty vague feeling - I'd be curious why Glork said he felt better about him (at some point?). Probably needs a reread.

The dahill thing, I have difficulty reading him, but I don't really see it at the moment. I feel like I'm missing something obvious, so I'll go over the case(s) again, but I'm really kinda "meh" about the wagon right now.. I don't really understand why it formed or why anyone's interesting in voting him even.

By the way, I'm amazed no-one googled the name Coriolanus. I did when I was reading along.

It occurs that Incog has his vote on me, I'll go back and look why sometime, or you could summarise it if you didn't already? I see in the preview part of it's something about RV.. I dunno if I can add anything except the knowledge he's town, I'll go back and look at it though. I'm aware half of this post is like "I'll go back and read" but uh yeah, I get a lot more reading done when I got a computer, heh.

So yeh now my other head will explain why EA is obv town T.T

Elmo

[Glork]

The kill is ridiculous. After Patrick said "If we die, seriously look at Glork no matter what," I instantly felt that any group containing Primate/Assmaster, Corio/Simenon, Incognito, or Yosarian2 (and possibly even Dahill) would have tried to off them. And while I won't deny that I would have if I were scum (believe me, it would have been a no-brainer), I can hardly believe that it points any more or less to me.



Seriously, that post is coming tonight. I didn't end up getting my modded thread up last night, because MeMe accidentally took away my permissions in Coney Island, and so I didn't get that done until today. But whenever I get out of the office, I'm eating dinner, going back to the hotel, and reading up on Yos (and answering to both Yos and Tuber). If I don't post tonight, feel free to lynch/kill/maim/ridicule/torture me.

[Incognito]

It occurs that Incog has his vote on me, I'll go back and look why sometime, or you could summarise it if you didn't already? I see in the preview part of it's something about RV.. I dunno if I can add anything except the knowledge he's town, I'll go back and look at it though.

I covered this a bit in my previous post, but sure, I can further elaborate if it was unclear.

When I did my reread of the thread, I initially primarily focused on the small sampling of people who were off of the Xtoxm-wagon (charter, Erratus Apathos, Rally Vincent [your predecessor], and Assmaster). I focused on this group basing my thoughts off of the assumption that I think it's highly likely that at least one scum could be found within this grouping; in my experience with mini games, I've pretty much never seen a situation where an entire scum team's members could be found on the D1 lynching wagon. I looked through charter's posts and didn't see much that I didn't like there, so I removed him from the list since I had been receiving a pretty consistent town vibe from him anyway, and I took a look at the remaining three people. Erratus Apathos and Rally Vincent interested me because I felt like and

still

feel like their spat in the beginning didn't really go anywhere; they went back and forth for a little while, each of them only had about 10 posts total during Day 1, and I just never got the impression that either one of them really

pushed

for each other's lynch. They eventually unvoted each other and went their separate ways: EA voted dahill1 at the end of D1 and RV voted Coriolanus at the end of D1.

At the start of D2, it seemed like the two of them pretty much forgot each other existed; Rally Vincent had begun voting Coriolanus citing "same reasons as yesterday", Erratus Apathos curiously began voting for Glork due to Glork's comment about dahill1's alignment, and neither one of them mentioned a thing about each other despite the fact that their D1 spat never really reached a resolution. Their "spat" almost gives me a distancing vibe; it seems unnatural to vote someone for a whole day and then come into the next day and not address the suspicion you supposedly had from the day before. Rally Vincent in particular mentioned that he's voting Coriolanus because of yesterday's reasons but my general impression about RV's D1 vote on Coriolanus was that it was a secondary type of vote since his primary vote (Erratus Apathos) didn't get the attention he wanted (see bolded orange for emphasis):

Now,

as clearly nobody wants to vote EA

, and the deadline grows near, I

unvote:
vote: Coriolanus

.

In short, I'm waiting for more contribution from you, but after rereading the thread, I didn't get particularly good vibes from

neither

Rally Vincent nor Erratus Apathos, so I chose to vote for the one who seemed more suspect to me to see what happens. The main reaction I was probing for was EA's reaction and now that he's gone forward and voted Yos2, I'm becoming more suspicious of him due to the reasons I listed in

my 492

.

[Incognito]

The kill is ridiculous. After Patrick said "If we die, seriously look at Glork no matter what," I instantly felt that any group containing Primate/Assmaster, Corio/Simenon, Incognito, or Yosarian2 (and possibly even Dahill) would have tried to off them. And while I won't deny that I would have if I were scum (believe me, it would have been a no-brainer), I can hardly believe that it points any more or less to me.

Why would any of the players from that group in particular want to off Pathetric just because of that single comment?

[Glork]

A high-profile doublehead named another high-profile player to give serious attention to in the event that they die. While it puts us into a very serious WIFOM situation, there's little doubt in my mind that Pathetric's death and what they said will probably be in the back of everyone else's head, even if nobody explicitly mentioned it up until now.


I even SAID that they made themselves obvious targets in my first post today, and NOBODY batted an eye at my comment then... so why question it now all of a sudden?

[Glork]

(Still @ work, btw, hoping to get out within half an hour)