Newbie 728 -- Fin.

[RIDICULOUS]

4 players still isn't an easy quick lynch with only two scum, but I can see how the shift in game sizes can cause an elevated level of suspicion.

But if you're going to think it's odd that Korts and Anticiollie both voted me early, it's simply illogical to completely ignore my second vote on Korts, as well as the other miniwagon on C_O. The ICs shouldn't garner any extra attention just because they're ICs; especially when it leads to dissecting every bit of their actions while ignoring those made by others.

[Korts]

Serplat, do you see any motivation for scum to plan a two-vote wagon pre-game?

Not really. The other game I've played was 7 player, this one is 9. I was thinking of it more as a 7 player game, with 4 to lynch. That would be an easier quick lynch, if newer players either:

1) Don't pay attention to the number it takes to lynch
or
2) Figure that the two IC's would never lead them astray

What is the likeliness, in your opinion, of both of those two happening, along with the likeliness of a majority of players riding the very first bandwagon of the game to a lynch?

[Serplat]

Serplat, do you see any motivation for scum to plan a two-vote wagon pre-game?

Not really. The other game I've played was 7 player, this one is 9. I was thinking of it more as a 7 player game, with 4 to lynch. That would be an easier quick lynch, if newer players either:

1) Don't pay attention to the number it takes to lynch
or
2) Figure that the two IC's would never lead them astray

What is the likeliness, in your opinion, of both of those two happening, along with the likeliness of a majority of players riding the very first bandwagon of the game to a lynch?

Probably not too likely, however I had read one other game where something similar to this happened. I can't remember which game that was though.


And good point RIDICULOUS, I shouldn't have singled out the ICs without even commenting on anybody else's gameplay.

[Conspicuous_other]

But if you're going to think it's odd that Korts and Anticiollie both voted me early, it's simply illogical to completely ignore my second vote on Korts, as well as the other miniwagon on C_O. The ICs shouldn't garner any extra attention just because they're ICs; especially when it leads to dissecting every bit of their actions while ignoring those made by others.

This. It seems like a lot of people seem to think that IC's are somehow special due to their IC status, and please don't take this the wrong way IC's, but they're really not. The only difference between them and us is that they are also here to answer our questions. Other than that, the IC's are just players like us, trying their very best to win their side the game.

[Korts]

I thought I was special...

4 players still isn't an easy quick lynch with only two scum, but I can see how the shift in game sizes can cause an elevated level of suspicion.

But if you're going to think it's odd that Korts and Anticiollie both voted me early, it's simply illogical to completely ignore my second vote on Korts, as well as the other miniwagon on C_O. The ICs shouldn't garner any extra attention just because they're ICs; especially when it leads to dissecting every bit of their actions while ignoring those made by others.

Why draw attention to the two competing wagons? Feeling anxious?

[Anticollie]

Vote:
Rastous

FOS: Almightybob

I'm calling a scotish conspiracy right now.

This strikes me as a bit OMGUSy, with overtones of scum.

Overtones of scum? Why? I got the OMGUS. That's obv obv. But scum?

No connection for me. Do tell.

[Anticollie]

The ICs shouldn't garner any extra attention just because they're ICs; especially when it leads to dissecting every bit of their actions while ignoring those made by others.

I encourage this in private, however. I make many subtle nuances that are often highly beneficial to the town. It is a tactic occasionally employed by mafia partners (in situations where they know each other) to communicate information, details or other affiliated information.

To rehash, much can be learned from how ICs interact, and dissect conversation. They tend to employ tactics not easily available in the virgin mind (to mafia). (thus: observe, and then dictate if what you're seeing is simply abstract, or truly subversive).

This tactic is easily remedied to operate in the town's interests as well as one can 'bait' (for lack of a better word) responses using subtle nuances to gauge reactions.

It is my hypothesis that generally speaking, Scum become too complacent in Mafia(Online) and thus rarely pick up on said nuances unless their back is hard up against a wall, in which case these nuances appear just as free-formedly as if they were town. (This is due in part to many mafia members choosing to play back-up to true townie's wagons or accusations). It is this process which allows an avid scum hunter to pick up on the subtle, yet readily available changes in a scum (hunter, in cases)'s attitude and position on the game without reading too much in the easily misinterpreted quasi-body language of the internet (to wit: someone becoming angry or feverish over a vote/line of questioning).

One of the things I do hope we will walk away from this game with is a stronger grasp of the pseudo-psychology of Mafia. To understand a player at the psychological level allows one to interpret, predict, and react more correctly to another's actions.

To put it simply: fuck metas, everyone can change those and cover themselves. But by playing as 'the house' in Mafia (even if you're vanilla) you will be a stronger scum hunter for it. Still confused? Play on.



----------------
Now playing: John Lennon - Gimme Some Truth
via FoxyTunes

[almightybob]

Overtones of scum? Why? I got the OMGUS. That's obv obv. But scum?

No connection for me. Do tell.

I meant that OMGUS is often thought to be a scumtell. So I've gathered from the other games I've read anyway.

[almightybob]

Still confused?

Very.

[Anticollie]

Overtones of scum? Why? I got the OMGUS. That's obv obv. But scum?

No connection for me. Do tell.

I meant that OMGUS is often thought to be a scumtell. So I've gathered from the other games I've read anyway.

Most ICs will tell you otherwise. For what reasoning, I cannot be sure. However, I often reccommend keeping scum tells out of mafia discussion. This is for the simple fact that we are, in essence, working with 0 hard evidence with this game.

Therefore, it is unwise to present anything as concrete. At best, the most we can do is provide reasoning, and as such acting as though any one single action damns someone is often diminutive to our game. It is safe to say that scum tells/metas and the like are based off of reasoning, but that reasoning is anything but secular. (ie: doesn't apply to all cases)

To borrow a page from Pirates of the Caribbean: think of scumtells as more guidelines than actual rules- and in time you'll find that basing your opinions on principal more than scum tells will become more fluent (and successful).

(But I see what you're getting at, I'm not not on board).

[RIDICULOUS]

I thought I was special...

4 players still isn't an easy quick lynch with only two scum, but I can see how the shift in game sizes can cause an elevated level of suspicion.

But if you're going to think it's odd that Korts and Anticiollie both voted me early, it's simply illogical to completely ignore my second vote on Korts, as well as the other miniwagon on C_O. The ICs shouldn't garner any extra attention just because they're ICs; especially when it leads to dissecting every bit of their actions while ignoring those made by others.

Why draw attention to the two competing wagons? Feeling anxious?

Not at all. I just felt that it would support my point of not tunneling on what you and Anticollie are doing if I drew attention to the other two vote wagons that were being ignored.

I don't really see any need to feel anxious about having a pair of votes on me, especially since they were both made during the initial random voting phase.

[almightybob]

Most ICs will tell you otherwise. For what reasoning, I cannot be sure. However, I often reccommend keeping scum tells out of mafia discussion. This is for the simple fact that we are, in essence, working with 0 hard evidence with this game.

Therefore, it is unwise to present anything as concrete. At best, the most we can do is provide reasoning, and as such acting as though any one single action damns someone is often diminutive to our game. It is safe to say that scum tells/metas and the like are based off of reasoning, but that reasoning is anything but secular. (ie: doesn't apply to all cases)

To borrow a page from Pirates of the Caribbean: think of scumtells as more guidelines than actual rules- and in time you'll find that basing your opinions on principal more than scum tells will become more fluent (and successful).

(But I see what you're getting at, I'm not not on board).

Thanks for the advice, I'll try to take it on board
I knew that scumtells weren't that concrete, but as this is my first time playing Mafia in any form I'm pretty much shooting in the dark here. Of course, this is still Day 1 so I suppose we all are.


Anyone pinging your scumdar at the moment?

[Korts]

Overtones of scum? Why? I got the OMGUS. That's obv obv. But scum?

No connection for me. Do tell.

I meant that OMGUS is often thought to be a scumtell. So I've gathered from the other games I've read anyway.

Like Anticollie said, you'll probably get told wherever you are on this site that it isn't. The short explanation is that OMGUS presupposes that the single reason for voting someone is that they are voting for you; however, this does not happen in practice, because there is always more of a reason than that, and no-one votes simply because they are voted; sure that might be the reason they looked at that particular player, and sure, the vote itself might be an important factor in context, like so: "you voted me when the bandwagon was building up; you were opportunistic" but it doesn't change the fact that the underlying reason is never as simple as Oh My God You Suck.

[axle135]

I'm sorry everyone, but as I posted in my other game, I have a workload building up and I need a replacement here as well.

Sorry everyone.

[almightybob]

Like Anticollie said, you'll probably get told wherever you are on this site that it isn't. The short explanation is that OMGUS presupposes that the single reason for voting someone is that they are voting for you; however, this does not happen in practice, because there is always more of a reason than that, and no-one votes simply because they are voted; sure that might be the reason they looked at that particular player, and sure, the vote itself might be an important factor in context, like so: "you voted me when the bandwagon was building up; you were opportunistic" but it doesn't change the fact that the underlying reason is never as simple as Oh My God You Suck.

That is weird, because I'm sure that I read several threads here where lots of people agreed OMGUS was a scumtell. Oh well, I'm sure you both know better than me so I'll remember that, thanks

I'm sorry everyone, but as I posted in my other game, I have a workload building up and I need a replacement here as well.

Sorry everyone.

That's OK, good luck with all the work

[Conspicuous_other]

I'm sorry everyone, but as I posted in my other game, I have a workload building up and I need a replacement here as well.

Sorry everyone.

It's all good, good luck with your work.

[almightybob]

I'm sorry everyone, but as I posted in my other game, I have a workload building up and I need a replacement here as well.

Sorry everyone.

Quick question before you go: are you scum?

[Anticollie]

I'm sorry everyone, but as I posted in my other game, I have a workload building up and I need a replacement here as well.

Sorry everyone.

Quick question before you go: are you scum?

L.A.L.

[Benmage]

Posting to show I'm here, reading the forum and active. I don't want everyone thinking i'm lurking, inactive or something of the sort...not a whole lot to go on as of yet.

I do enjoy reading Anticollie's posts.

[almightybob]

Any thoughts on scum candidates BM?

[Anticollie]

Good bye, axle. Thanks for at least attempting to play!

[Benmage]

I think Conspicuous_other could be scum.. Korts pointed out he might be anxious with the two votes on him. C_O points out there were 2 votes or a "mini-wagon" also out there (granted during random voting phase).

A reasonable association, but also possibly a scummy move.

I'm going to

FOS Conspicuous_other

(kinda a newb question...are there still two votes on C_O cause I would of simply voted for him, but I don't want be the third vote to leave a possible L-2 quick lynching)

As far as town goes, I think Korts is shaping out to appear most town-like.

Anyways it is still early, every opinion is subject to change, just need to hear more information from all.

[Rastous]

Leaving it at L-2 isn't bad. Any mafia stupid enough to quick lynch will then just give themselves away and all the town win if the town win. Townies are usually a bit more careful from what I've seen and will only finish a lynch if it gets close to a deadline or there is a general consensus.

I understand the point against over relying on scum tells, especially in newb games but I'm not sure about Anticollie's first point. Are you basically saying we should try to see things from there point of view and see how there actions make sense as town or mafia?

[Korts]

I don't really see any need to feel anxious about having a pair of votes on me, especially since they were both made during the initial random voting phase.

Why? Are random votes worth less?

unvote, vote: Conspicious_other

[Korts]

I understand the point against over relying on scum tells, especially in newb games but I'm not sure about Anticollie's first point. Are you basically saying we should try to see things from there point of view and see how there actions make sense as town or mafia?

Yes, that's the gist. The most effective way of scumhunting is analysing motivations; basically what this is is you look at a particular action and judge whether the particular player would be motivated to do any such thing as scum or town. If scum are more motivated than town to act that way, then you have someone more likely to be scum through motivation.