Mini 698 - Georgetown Mafia - Game over

[LlamaFluff]

Like it wasn't already obvious how town Jazz is or something.

Always good to have more information from the obv-towns

vote cephrir

[Huntress]

Delighted at having found one evil-doer, but knowing from this morning's grim discovery that he was not the only one troubling the town, you continue your search. Some of you immediately make accusations while others muse on the events of yesterday. Suspicion quickly falls on Cephir but some are not so sure and have more questions and others are busy as this is the holiday season. Eventually the decision is made and, despite his protests of innocence, you fetch a rope, drag him out to the town square and make use of a convenient tree. You eagerly search his house but find ... absolutely nothing to link him with any criminal activity.

Final Vote Count for Day Two

Cephrir 5 - (OhGodMyLife, Qwints, Jazzmyn, Corvuus, LLamaFluff)
Apothecary 1 - (MacavityLock)
Qwints 1 - (Cephrir)

Not voting 2 - (Apothecary, Elmo)

Cephrir (Vanilla Townie) has been lynched.

Please send in all night actions by Thursday 22nd January 9 am GMT.

[Huntress]

As another dawn breaks, you hear a cry of alarm. Another dead body has been found. Running outside, you discover OhGodMyLife lying in a pool of blood. How many more will die before this is over?

OhGodMyLife (Pro-town Watcher) was killed night two.

With seven players alive, it takes four votes to lynch.

[OhGodMyLife]

Well, bah go town and all that.

[Apothecary]

Okay, so is that another power role we lost?

[MacavityLock]

OK, I'm back. Not fully caught up yet, but mostly. I really do think Ceph's wagon contained at least one scum, and I think it's likely that qwintz is the guy.

This sequence strikes me as very weird:

It's simply not worth the risk of a mislynch. Maybe the doc was acting scummy to avoid being a nk target. Maybe he was just being an idiot. Or maybe SC is scum. It's just not worth it to lynch him on D1. If SC is scum and there is a doc in the game, he can counterclaim at LYLO or his being nk'd will out SC as scum.

unvote, vote: StrangerCoug

You sound pretty confident. I agree that SC has acted quite scummy.

That is a quick turnaround, but he's also passing the responsibility to OGML.

woot! One scum down.

Did he infer, or did he know?

And day 2, his case on Ceph was really weak. iso post 39 brings up 3 reasons in his Ceph-case, only one of which I find all that compelling.
"1) Voted w/o reason to get a reaction" - Random stage, happens all the time.
"2) Pulled an about face on Primate" - How is this scummy? See below for continuation.
"3) Repeatedly says he has already given reasons w/o elaboration" - This is a fair point, but has no one else done anything scummier?

iso post 40 is interesting enough to quote in entirety:

I don't recall ever thinking [Primate] was scum. Obnoxious but never lynchworthy.

Let's look at the record.

@Primate voters: even if Primate is faking a PR, I don't think it's scummy. Antitown, perhaps, but not scummy. And I'm far from positive that he's making it up anyway.

followed by

Unvote, Vote: Primate

because stop.

AND

If you're giving up, I will as well. I was hoping if we got enough votes on Primate he would give it up, but if the wagon's greatest supporter is going to jump ship it'll never work.

Unvote

.

You were putting pressure on Primate and suddenly backed off.

In what way is what Ceph said contradictory? In what way is his backing off scummy?

Vote: qwintz

----

Note: I'm not letting Apoth off the hook yet. He's reverted to his useless ways of early D1.

Okay, so is that another power role we lost?

What is your purpose in asking this question? Is that all you have to add to the game right now?

[Apothecary]

I'm simply wondering, ML. Afterall, what am I meant to post at the beginning of the day?

What did the scum players stand to gain from this? Did they see him as a major threat, since he did seem to get people rallied together on a suspect and get them lynched pretty quickly.

Going to have a quick look back over the previous few pages, and I'll post later.

[qwints]

I'll have more time later this weekend, but for now I will simply note that my comment about one scum being down came after SC self-hammered.

[Elmo]

The fact that there was only the one kill means very probably we only have one killing group, the mafia, which means very probably scum had some motive to kill off Ythill on night 1. That's weird, because he looked like a prime day 2 mislynch. This bugs me. (I will whack people thinking nightkill speculation is a scumtell with an MD post if necessary.)

I will not bother reciting everything I said yesterday and

vote qwints

for the present. I would like a detailed explanation of why Cephrir was supposed to be scum. Also curious on Jazzmyn's views.

[Corvuus]

hmm.

going to have to consider this a bit.

re-reading and also not a lot of time right now (Chinese New Year weekend).

Cor

[LlamaFluff]

Vote ML

More or less for the reasons in 781 which I know he replied to, but I still like the vote. Will respond to his response later as im running behind in a few other games right now too.

[Huntress]

Jazzmyn has been prodded.

[qwints]

I already laid out my problems with Ceph:

Cephrir

1) Voted w/o reason to get a reaction
2) Pulled an about face on Primate
3) Repeatedly says he has already given reasons w/o elaboration


See his post that before the SC claim

That SC wagon looks better every minute. Actually,

Vote: SC

. His most recent few posts have really sealed it for me, and now he's backing off Ythill which seems to me like a total cop-out to the accusation of his rapidly changing suspicions (which, incidentally, is not a bad tell IMO). Note that this is a L-1 vote.

He's finally willing to do some work when it will succeed in confirming him town

See also his post asking permission to hammer Apoth:

I went away this weekend and nothing happened. Yay, I guess.

Is that L-1? I'm willing to hammer, I'm done with both Apoth and this day.

Maybe a null tell, but it strikes me as a little scummy to not give reasons for an Apoth lynch.

His refusal to defend and unvote of OGML are further evidence for me.

Cephrir, I assume the "bizarre" play you refer to is my giving reasons that you disagreed with. Sure I could be wrong, but I'm increasingly sure that you're scum. One more piece of evidence is your referral to Ythill's death. You've said that the only possible explanations for that are 1) I am scum or 2) Scum is trying to frame me. Now you're saying that ythill's death proves that he was correct about atlas. Even though Ythill changed his position on Atlas before I subbed in. Furthermore, speculating about motives for nightkills at this point in the game is pure WIFOM.

Obviously neither OGML nor I are confirmed town, but Ceph is still the most likely scum.[/quote
]There was also his reaction to pressure which I saw as anti-town.

Obviously, I was wrong about Ceph. I don't see a lot to be gained evaluating the reasons themselves (hindsight is 20/20), but I certainly was giving reasons. Not to mention the fact that four other players ( 1 confirmed town) agreed with me.

Onto today. I really don't like Apoth asking the obvious to start the day. If you're going to post, contribute at least a little.

vote: Apoth

[Apothecary]

So essentially, you and Mac are going after me because I don't have anything to contribute at this time.
Great. I'm personally seeing you as scum at the moment. You voted me when I hadn't posted for a day in post 656, when you wanted me to defend myself. I personally think you NK'ed Ythill, after he began a "Smear Campaign" against you at the end of day one.
so

Vote qwints

.

Vote for someone you think is scum, not someone who has very little to contribute.

[qwints]

active lurking = posting without contributing = scum.

The fact that you've been so quiet recently is very suspicious. Maybe you killed ythill to throw suspicion on me, bringing it up is introducing WIFOM and not helpful.

I note that I am L - 1 and will claim if asked by anyone not currently voting for me.

[Apothecary]

I don't frakking care you're on L-1.
Your little line of reasoning in your previous post is so flawed, and if you can't see that, you're beyond all hope.

And I'm so sorry I've been busy recently. I guess I should stop being a student then.

[qwints]

But you apparently have time to watch Battlestar Gallactica...

11 posts in a month on Days 2 and 3 after 53 posts in 2 months on D1. Furthermore, some of your new posts are short and contentless. That's a clear drop in activity.

Combine that with an OMGUS vote, unnecessary hostility and nk speculation and you're looking pretty scummy to me.

On another point, I was already voting for you before 656. You had made several posts without mounting a further defense.

Last, I claimed that the scum (i.e. you) could have killed someone (i.e. Ythill) to put pressure on those Ythill attacked (i.e. me and LlamaFluff.) I said that it was impossible to gain meaning from the kill because it was a WIFOM situation. Therefore, bringing it up was unhelpful. Why was this reasoning "so flawed" that I am "beyond all hope."

[Apothecary]

Actually, I was referring to your first line about "active lurking". Don't try and misinterpret what I said.
I apologise if the amount of work I get fluctuates. I guess nearing examination time has left me little time to do much else.

I did watch BSG, but I haven't seen it recently. Certain mannerisms seem to stick with me.

[Jazzmyn]

Jazzmyn has been prodded.

My apologies. It looks like I accidentally deleted this thread from my 'watched topics' list when I was doing some clean up, but I've restored it now. I will catch up and post more very soon.

Regards,
Jazz

[Apothecary]

Actually, sorry ML. I thought you voted me.
Jazzmyn, who are you suspicious of?

[MacavityLock]

Well, I've done some re-reading of SC's posts to see if I can find anything that would suggest a link between him and another player, and I'm pretty happy with my vote on qwintz. I didn't see anything in SC's posts to or about Atlas that were anything other than conversational or even coaching. Early in the game when Atlas asks about how to get the game started, SC responded with his iso post 5, which looking at it again seems like a bit of advice on how to not get votes on you. The following iso posts are all directed to Atlas, and all have a very conversational tone: 8, 9, 17, 36, 37, 43, 51, 54, and 61.

The only other SC posts about or to Atlas at all I can find are:
52 - SC votes Ythill for asking for votes on Atlas. Looks to me like protecting a buddy.
-6 hours pass.-
55 - SC removes his vote on Ythill because there's now a "reasonable case" on Atlas. Still, he drops a "minor FoS" on Yt.

Once qwintz replaced Atlas, SC mentioned him exactly once, when he thought qwintz hammered Apoth, and then all he said was "Congratulations."

Also, note that SC's iso post 1 contains his first random vote of the game: On Atlas.

All told, these SC -> Atlas interactions do feel like they could be coming from scumbuddies. Vote is staying for now.

Other stuff:

Vote ML

More or less for the reasons in 781 which I know he replied to, but I still like the vote. Will respond to his response later as im running behind in a few other games right now too.

My response is "Please give me more arguments to refute." I already answered your 781 questions, and if you have more, let me know.

So essentially, you and Mac are going after me because I don't have anything to contribute at this time.

No, no, no. I'm going after you because you were scummy Day 1, you have not been scumhunting, and you've been active-lurking (which qwintz is right about, by the way). And now in 863, you've added 2 nice 5-letter acronyms in some nightkill WIFOM and some OMGUS without a great backing case.

I'm simply wondering, ML. Afterall, what am I meant to post at the beginning of the day?

I don't know, post a case maybe, like I did. Really anything other than a rhetorical question about how we lost a power role would be nice.

[MacavityLock]

Actually, sorry ML. I thought you voted me.
Jazzmyn, who are you suspicious of?

Ha! That was an oddly timed cross-post, given the low activity at the moment. Just to be sure we're on the same page, I am still suspicious of you, even though my vote isn't on you right now.

[Apothecary]

I know. But it just felt like you were suspecting me because I didn't post much, or contribute greatly.
I'll try and change that.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote ML

More or less for the reasons in 781 which I know he replied to, but I still like the vote. Will respond to his response later as im running behind in a few other games right now too.

My response is "Please give me more arguments to refute." I already answered your 781 questions, and if you have more, let me know.

Still swamped with classes right now, near the end of the week it always gets worse too so I wont be able to get up everything I have, but here is most.

ML comes off as scummy mostly due to two things, firstly the way he played the SC wagon during D1. I dont think was ever actually a part of the wagon vote wise, but there were comments (like his 33) that make me think otherwise. When the SC wagon came to a head near the end of the day, he stayed off it and continued to push the Apoc wagon which was the only other viable one. It seems like he made his mark on the SC wagon but chose not to cash in it.

You're correct that I was never on the SC wagon vote-wise. Early in the day, I had some suspicions, but he was never at the top of my list. Over the course of page 14, my suspicions spiked due to his voting and subsequent unvoting of Ythill. I also did not like 337 at all. He was then at L-1, so being on his wagon with a vote would have meant a hammer, which I was not willing to do at that point. He then claimed doc, and I backed off like everybody else did.

This I still think is one of the bigger points against you. Your post 33 (11/20) was the first post since your 19 (11/12) which even mentioned SC in some suspicious light. Back in your 19 the extent of what was said even was

SC, I mentioned early on as having suspicions of. He has not done anything to remove those suspicions. Nothing new to add...
...MiteyMouse, you [Corv], and SC are my top targets right now. I'm still waiting for Primate to say anything.

This time before that was WAY back in his fourth post, which was when we were leaving the random stage

In fact, I think that people who don't see that are jumping on the easier Ceph-bandwagon. The first semi-suspicious thing that happens in this game, and you don't want to reason it through? Also, I'm not following on Gorillaz-scum at all. So, yeah, I'm going to

unvote

him.

FoS: StrangerCoug and MiteyMouse

. In fact,

Vote: MiteyMouse

. StrangerCoug at least is saying original things. MM is just following the trail SC is blazing.

---

This just seems like a suspicion that was just there and never acted on. He called SC scummy in the early game and perpetually ignored him for the rest of the game, although SC always was a top suspect when asked by people. Smells like a fake-suspicion to me more then anything else. Going from suspect but never mentioned to "I will hammer if needed" in nothing flat... just really sits poorly with me.

Is the qwints case anything outside of calling SC scum before the flip?

[MacavityLock]

This I still think is one of ithe bigger points against you. Your post 33 (11/20) was the first post since your 19 (11/12) which even mentioned SC in some suspicious light.

...

This just seems like a suspicion that was just there and never acted on. He called SC scummy in the early game and perpetually ignored him for the rest of the game, although SC always was a top suspect when asked by people. Smells like a fake-suspicion to me more then anything else.

SC's interactions with MiteyMouse and Ceph set me off early, though MM was my preferred suspect at the time. Subsequently, Corvuus's play really irked me mid Day 1. When I posted my top 3 being MM, Corv, and SC, no one else had done enough to get on my suspicion list yet. To be honest, SC was a step down from MM and Corv on my list at the time. As I've said more than once, on page 14 SC went from mildly scummy to pretty darn bad with iso posts 52-55. But I was not yet willing to hammer.

Going from suspect but never mentioned to "I will hammer if needed" in nothing flat... just really sits poorly with me.

Nice misrep. Please don't put something in quotes like that if I didn't say it. I requested a claim from SC, never said anything about a hammer if needed. There's a big difference.

Is the qwints case anything outside of calling SC scum before the flip?

Um, yes? Weak case on Ceph-wagon. Jumping on the newly revitalized SC-wagon in a very suspicious manner. SC -> Atlas/qwintz interactions that I posted above.