Mini 699: Insane Asylum Mafia: Game Over

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: I hereby request replacement. See updated sig for reason.

[forbiddanlight]

Mod: I hereby request replacement. See updated sig for reason.

AGAIN!? Sigh...it's understandable. Fine, I'll find another replacement

[Mirth]

For the record, I protected Kor last night.

Why? Why did you protect a person with NK immunity? Why didn't you protect... i don't know, the miller? The person most likely to be killed?

I was thinking it would be better to be safe than sorry with the protect and I did not think theyd go after SG. It was between the two cops and SC as a potential confirmed innocent on who I would protect, and I ultimately decided to go for one of you just in case. Coin flip decided the rest.

[Korlash]

That doesnt make any sense. Protecting a NK immune cop is not being "better safe then sorry" that's wasting a protection... Your protection should have been between Farside (Has the possible Crazy investigation on her side), SC (Corv's investigation), and SG (Confirmed in part by Corp).

Barring any Crazy-Scum flipping town mishap, scum entered the night 3 v 4. They NEEDED a kill. They would not go after a NK immune cop. In fact, why they didn't kill YOU is the biggest mystery there is. They risked doc protection killing SG, why didn't they just kill the doc?

[forbiddanlight]

Kublai Khan replaces StrangerCoug

[Kublai Khan]

Hey everyone. Give me the week-end to read through all 66 pages. I'll try to have an analysis ready by Monday.

[Korlash]

I wouldn't bother with that. Maybe read yesterday and look up anything major...

Seems kinda worthless to read the entire game though... Just saying...

[Corvuus]

Hi everyone,

my time is extremely limited and i won't be able to post that much in any of my games and such.

so even though it is extremely unlikely (with me VLAish and a new replacement) don't go 4 votes on anyone yet.

I targetted Farside and got a guilty result.

I picked Farside for several reasons.

1. I believe I am sane or naive.

2. I didn't believe Crazy when he said he targetted Farside if they are both scum, which is what I had a feeling for due to process of elimination and since I believed SG was miller. Crazy turning up town upon lynch (which I saw before I made my night choice) but game NOT ending would lead one to conclude that Farside was not scum, and that possibility freaked me out more than anything if i actually trusted Crazy telling us the truth about who he targetted so I felt that Farside was the ONLY choice I could go for.

I did have a mindgame moment when i considered Farside being "cleared" by Crazy and thus scum nightkill Farside, but I considered it extremely unlikely due to

1. I didn't believe Crazy.
2. Why nk farside when there is claimed doc? That is still unexplainable but i'm still alright with mirth for now pending Kor's sanity.

---------------------------

So ....

In conclusion (since I won't be able to post much or give much input)

Cor, Kor are claimed cops, 1 NK immunity. (Cor investigated by Kor and came up guilty)

SC is claimed townie (investigated by Cor who is not naive for sure now and most likely sane, thus I consider SC clear).

Farside is claimed townie (investigated by Cor, came up scum on result)

Mirth is claimed doc (came up scum, investigated by Kor)

Populartajo is claimed death miller.

Due to process of elimination of Cor, Kor and SC being town for *sure* with Mirth leaning town for me, I am going with Tajo and Farside as the two remaining scum since

1. I got guilty on Farside.
2. I disbelieve Tajo on several parts.

I hope to check in later.

Take care,

Corvuus

[Korlash]

Alright then awesome. At least the two of us are in sync.

I targeted Pop because I felt it was more inportant to confirm one of our sanities (me and corv) and as I had two investigations, and he only had one I felt my sanity was more important. I got an innocet or "Townie" result on Pop, which says nothing about him as he claimed miller but it confirms I'm not paranoid. It also confirms "at least one" of Corv or Mirth is town.

Either way you look at it if both cops are to believed "at least one" of SC and Mirth must "also" be town.

So this leaves pop and farside with a "minimum" of one scum amoung them... And a guilty on Farside pretty much sums it all up. But in order for that to be true Crazy would either have had to lie (And thus be scum, because no townie should ever lie about that) or is scum that flips town and hoped to clear farside in the process. If Farside is scum, sadly that means I can believe Pop's role as it mirror's Crazy's. It also means the last scum should be between Mirth and SC which if that is the case we will be able to sort the most likely between them tomorrow. (Plus with 2 scum dead and 2 cops, 1 vanilla, and 1 miller left) we technically should have 2 lynches and so whichever it is we should be able to take them out before we lose. Of course this all rests on both cops telling the truth and assuming Pop's role is town. Which neither is any where near "proven" to be true.

Man... this game is insane... So the way I see it if Crazy is town we lost already, so the only way town can win is if he was scum. So I have to assume he was scum. And as Corv claimed my role pretty damn close (too close to assume fakeclaim) I have to believe him. However... why did he not vote farside? That's kinda been the age old cop fakeclaim tell...

[Mirth]

That doesnt make any sense. Protecting a NK immune cop is not being "better safe then sorry" that's wasting a protection... Your protection should have been between Farside (Has the possible Crazy investigation on her side), SC (Corv's investigation), and SG (Confirmed in part by Corp).

Barring any Crazy-Scum flipping town mishap, scum entered the night 3 v 4. They NEEDED a kill. They would not go after a NK immune cop. In fact, why they didn't kill YOU is the biggest mystery there is. They risked doc protection killing SG, why didn't they just kill the doc?

Actually, I'd say the scum needed a dead cop or a no-kill more than just any kill. Killing at this point eliminates a lynch candidate from the pool, and this is dangerous because of cop investigations and such. Because basically you and Corv are more or less above the lynch. The rest of us aren't. Unless the two of you are scum together any random kill wouldn't do it. Besides, I did not think SG was confirmed, and I wasn't sure what to make of Farside and am even less sure now with Corv's investigation. And you're right, I should have been killed. Though killing me would have been smarter right after I claimed. But I do think being safer with keeping the cops alive is the best move.

On the topic of Farside, this is very odd. I'm not sure what to make of this. How does Crazy factor into this if Farside gave up a guilty?

[Korlash]

Actually, I'd say the scum needed a dead cop or a no-kill more than just any kill. Killing at this point eliminates a lynch candidate from the pool, and this is dangerous because of cop investigations and such. Because basically you and Corv are more or less above the lynch. The rest of us aren't. Unless the two of you are scum together any random kill wouldn't do it. Besides, I did not think SG was confirmed, and I wasn't sure what to make of Farside and am even less sure now with Corv's investigation. And you're right, I should have been killed. Though killing me would have been smarter right after I claimed. But I do think being safer with keeping the cops alive is the best move.

If you are seriously a doc who flipped a coin you should know if it had landed on Corv I wouldn't have sucha problem with it. He is the only one out of the two of us the scum could possibly have killed. So not only did you protect a NK immune cop, you protected the one cop with almost zero chnce of being killed. We could argue why the scum killed SG all we want. Maybe Pop is scum and killed her to prove she was town which he may think strengthens his claim. Maybe Farside is scum and killed because she didn't worry about the cops. Maybe she thinks Crazy's investigation clears her. Personally, the way I see it is the scum have 2 or 3 people left. They can still win with both cops alive. Perhaps they left you alive and killed SG in the hopes we mislynch you and they mop up the victory easy.

On the topic of Farside, this is very odd. I'm not sure what to make of this. How does Crazy factor into this if Farside gave up a guilty?

Thats what makes this game so insane... *waves arms*

[Mirth]

Eh, I think you're both town hence the coin.

[Corvuus]

I have some time before I need to head out to friend's party and I checked in to see if anyone had anything to say about my post.

My current view (if it isn't clear from my hasty post before and my post from last night) is that the game isn't over since Crazy is scum. His role claim made himself into a 'no information lynch' that we wouldn't know unless it was lylo and to me, it was lylo, Crazy was lynched (flipped town) but the game didn't end so that tells us his alignment was scum. That made it, to me, more important to investigate Farside and check on 'worst case' as compared to trying to 'verify' sanity or not which may be null result or not interpretable.

Assuming all of this, I can believe Crazy's roleclaim (but scum aligned) but I doubted the truth of his targets and such. So I picked Farside for various reasons outlined in before post. I got a guilty result and it happened to also verify that i wasn't naive, but either sane or 'eek', 50-50. 50-50 is scary, so I will assume i am sane.

Kor: you got a innocent result on a claimed death miller who should have come up guilty. This says many things. One, you aren't paranoid.

Two, town shouldn't lie (or at least, we hope not) so Tajo is telling the truth about being a death miller and you are a 'insane' (reverse result cop) or Tajo is scum fake claiming death miller role and you are 'insane' cop who got innocent on a real scum. Either way, it would point to you being a 'insane' cop than a paranoid one.

If this is true, then it would confirm Mirth and Cor. If mine is true, then it would verify SC and condemn Farside. With estimated 2 scum left, then it should basically be game assuming that *both* cops are NOT 50-50 (which would be extreme WTF)

I'm willing to vote Farside but I want a response, etc. first from everyone, plus (in case I am 50-50), I don't want to throw my vote out and then be VLA and scum are able to lynch someone. By not throwing my vote out and with 4 votes needed for lynch (and assuming target will not self vote), they would need everyone else to agree on it and I don't want a 'quicklynch'. I'd rather hear what Farside has to say about me getting a guilty for them and why Tajo said we should have investigated Farside and what he has to say on it.

I'm perfectly willing to believe Farside/Tajo are the scum pair, that the game is virtually 'over' and all we need to do is lynch Farside first, I investigate Mirth and based on that result, choose between Mirth and Tajo as the final one (based on extreme longshot of Tajo actually being death miller but then that brings up a slew of more questions and problems).

Either way, I believe Kor's cop claim and... assuming both of us still have NK resistance since someone has died 'every' night then the game seems practically over.

So... part of me wants to be hasty, vote and get it over with; part of me wants to see how scum respond, etc. just in case.

Corv

[Korlash]

I'm perfectly willing to believe Farside/Tajo are the scum pair, that the game is virtually 'over' and all we need to do is lynch Farside first, I investigate Mirth and based on that result, choose between Mirth and Tajo as the final one (based on extreme longshot of Tajo actually being death miller but then that brings up a slew of more questions and problems).

Either way, I believe Kor's cop claim and... assuming both of us still have NK resistance since someone has died 'every' night then the game seems practically over.

So... part of me wants to be hasty, vote and get it over with; part of me wants to see how scum respond, etc. just in case.

The only thing you are overlooking is a GF. In a game that seems to be all about wrong investigations and messing with the cops it's kind of dumb not to expect it. I also must admit I am also worried about a framer. My (RL) paranoid side makes me wonder if that isn't why Pop came out last night "hoping" one of us investigated Farside. However, just like my comments on the GF yesterday, I can't really let this theory run my mindset as we are still in a technical LYLO.

I guess I can understand wanting to hear what Farside has to say before voting.

[Corvuus]

eh, i missed your posts.

Crazy's lynch doesn't mean ANYTHING for Farside since the game is still on thus Crazy was scum which means Crazy is a liar and thus can lie about his targets, etc.

It is that possibility that made me investigate Farside and I got a guilty. I choose Farside because (after various consideration and mindgame) I was worried that Farside would be scum and would use Crazy's claim in order to clear themselves so that we then mislynch and lose.

I want to hear from Tajo about his asking us if we investigated Farside or not statement.

----

In addition, only scum know what their power roles are. Crazy's power role (scum-aligned thief) seemed to be the counter to the cops and with his death, scum may not be able to deal with NK resistant cops. If they could have, scum would have killed the cops by any means necessary or heck even RB us to prevent us from gaining information. I wasn't RB'ed and neither was Kor so apparently the scum are either 'normal' or have other tricks.

I was worried about various speculation and other decisions to consider and make, but getting a guilty on Farside means I don't need to worry about whether SC is a godfather or various other circumstances yet. Farside claimed townie, I got a guilty, I think I am sane, so Farside needs to discuss implications and such and Tajo as well for his statement.

-----------

As for the Nightkill, I don't understand the exact 'scum' line of reasoning since it would be better to target a cop and waste a NK resistance than to actually kill someone (or kill someone investigated and verified like Mirth or SC). I was leaning towards SG being miller and Farside in with Crazy and Tajo and SG dying actually does puzzle me.

Actually, SG's death is perplexing to the point that... well... the only possible scenarios I could think of aren't really helpful.

Corv

[Corvuus]

ok, i really got to go drive now .

i do consider Godfather possibility but since I got a guilty on Farside, I don't need to think about it more. If i had gotten a 'innocent' then indeed we would be at square WIFOM.

C

[Korlash]

In addition, only scum know what their power roles are. Crazy's power role (scum-aligned thief) seemed to be the counter to the cops and with his death, scum may not be able to deal with NK resistant cops. If they could have, scum would have killed the cops by any means necessary or heck even RB us to prevent us from gaining information. I wasn't RB'ed and neither was Kor so apparently the scum are either 'normal' or have other tricks.

That's been my biggest concern... Crazy claimed RBer... if he was scum he would have HAD to either be able to RB or have someone on his side with that ability. Who did he target night 1? I know I asked this before but I'm dumb and can't remember anything past what I ate for breakfast yesterday...

Other "tricks" include a framer, a janitor, a GF and any custom makings of them. They could possibly have a role that lets them hide the role and alignment of someone who dies or an anti-framer that makes scum come up town to cops. Any sort of GF investigation immuneity is also possible.

I was worried about various speculation and other decisions to consider and make, but getting a guilty on Farside means I don't need to worry about whether SC is a godfather or various other circumstances yet. Farside claimed townie, I got a guilty, I think I am sane, so Farside needs to discuss implications and such and Tajo as well for his statement.

Yeah I agree. None of the possible tricks scum might have are important until tomorrow. I trust you, and I can believe you're sane, so a guilty on a claimed vanilla... well that's pretty cut and dry...

As for the Nightkill, I don't understand the exact 'scum' line of reasoning since it would be better to target a cop and waste a NK resistance than to actually kill someone (or kill someone investigated and verified like Mirth or SC). I was leaning towards SG being miller and Farside in with Crazy and Tajo and SG dying actually does puzzle me.

Actually, SG's death is perplexing to the point that... well... the only possible scenarios I could think of aren't really helpful.

I still like the theory Pop killed SG in an effort to make his claim look real. I mean he already did that "I told you guys Corp and SG were telling the truth" bit... And I think if either Mirth or SC is scum, they had to leave the other alive in case it came down to possible GF's later, or left them both (as town) alive in order to push the GF theory and maybe try to mislynch one of them today. (Also incriminates Pop) Plus leaving Mirth alive just adds the wifom of why didn't they kill the doc? (If she is town) SC could have been left alive if Farside is scum in order to limit the number of dead vanillas and help keep her claim viable.

Theres a lot of theries out there, doesn't do much good worrying about them just yet...

[populartajo]

So this is the story. I had a shitty day today, mom is crazy, things you prob dont want to hear.... I really dont want to play mafia this night but I really want to win this game and I dont wat you guys to think that Im avoiding this.
I will answer everything you want more precisely Monday but in the meantime...
Just think that Im still the death miller that claimed early D1 and generated the other miller claims that finally semiconfirmed them. I have played the majority of this game believing their claims. I played as I thought(and I think) it is better to play as a miller, specially a death miller thinking in possible future cop investigations, mislynches or NKs.
Obviously I would get shit (as other millers also got early) and Im still getting it. It is normal. I would doubt a death miller until the end and precisely my playstyle and experience in this game is not the best of the world. My role is insane but think also about the 2 cops with nk resistance. Town really must have something shitty to balance that. Also, Korlash also noticed this, as Corv is a perfect mirror from Korlash, I am the perfect mirror from Crazy. I am town but I come up scum. He is scum but if he targets town he comes up town.
And yes I still think us playing still the game means Crazy was scum. There is no other scenario.
I firmly think farside is scum as I pushed heavy early D2. I asked about anyone investigating she because a guilty result on her is the only thing that could make us win this game if you all finally believe Im town. If you hadnt investigated her and we had the same information of yesterday, my lynch was inevitable today.
The only thing that is weird is why Crazyscum would say he targeted her when he probably hitted another vanilla. Maybe his plan was to get lynched that day? This is the only thing that makes me wonder a little little possibility of farside being town. Corv sane investigation on her, however, makes things very clear for me.
So farside is one scum. Who is the other? Corv and Korlash are confirmed cops. If one of them is scum then Im going to admire you forever, you played an awesome game. Hope this is not the case and we have one of SC and Mirth. The bad thing is that I suspect both of them and I really think one is a GF or something crazy messed up with the investigations (totally possible) but doesnt this make scum overpowered?
I really dont know. I reallly would like to reread this game knowing that farside finally is the scum I catched D2. At first glance and from my memories of rereading, I think Mirth makes more sense than Coug but I really would like that reread...
Also, killing SG would be not good for me since she was basically the only one siding with me. Remember our claims and the similiraty of flavor, specially the COPS part.
Hope you understand.

[populartajo]

Forgot to add this.

Vote :farside

See you on Monday.

[Korlash]

Dude... enter key... Paragraphs... makes reading so much easier...

Now your role isn't a "perfect" mirror of Crazy... but it's pretty close.

As for who the other scum is, it doesn't matter. Not today. Today is all about Farside. Don't give yourself a hernia trying to disect who is the other scum.

but doesnt this make scum overpowered?

How is scum NOT overpowered? 2 millers, a death miller, a scum that flips town, a "rusty" doctor, and 4 vanilla towns? All we have are 2 Nk immune cops and with all the Cop fucking roles out there we aren't "that" useful. This game

heavily

favored scum and I'm glad to finally see a set-up that shows why relying on powerroles to solve everything is a bad idea.

The only thing that is weird is why Crazyscum would say he targeted her when he probably hitted another vanilla. Maybe his plan was to get lynched that day? This is the only thing that makes me wonder a little little possibility of farside being town.

I don't think he is a thief. I think he is the death miller form of scum. He was most likely told he flips vanilla town so he probably had to lie about who he investigated. If he picked a town that town could turn out to be a cop or doc or something, but if he picks his partner then 1- his partner will back him up, and 2- the partner should get some "Clearance" when he flips.

I still need to go back and find out who he targeted N1. If it was Llama then it adds up but if it was someone alive then it might not.

[populartajo]

When he claimed Thief he said he targetted Electra who already was lynched D2.
Crazy being the death miller from the scum faction and mirroring my role totally makes sense with his supposed breadcrumbs about believing me and all the millers and why he had "some information" that was really close to mine that it was better not to share it at the time.
Specially, why he coughed 4th miller early D1 instead of thief....
Going to sleep now. I really deserve it.

[Mirth]

I agree with Corv about the waiting for a response before lynching. I think the scum are Farside and Tajo.

This Crazy thing still has me scratching my head. The anti-miller thing would make sense, I have a couple of other ideas though about what might be going on. I'm not going to share them until after Farside explains herself though.

[Kublai Khan]

I wouldn't bother with that. Maybe read yesterday and look up anything major...

Seems kinda worthless to read the entire game though... Just saying...

Heh, I got up to page 15 before I noticed you said this. But thanks, you appear to be right. I've never jumped in right at endgame before.

Reading the last few pages, I think this is where everything is standing:

farside22
Claiming Vanilla Townie
Investigated guilty by Sane Cop Corvuus

StrangerCoug/Kublai Khan
Vanilla Townie
Investigated innocent by Sane Cop Corvuus

Pentadragon/Korlash
Claiming Insane Cop (NK Immune)

Mirth
Claimed Doc
Protected Korlash (NK Immune) last night
Investigated as Guilty by Insane Cop Korlash
"Rusty" Doc?

Corvuus
Claiming Sane Cop (NK Immune)
Investigated as Guilty by Insane Cop Korlash

Populartajo
Claiming Death Miller
Investigated as Innocent by Insane Cop Korlash

Have I got everything right? Is there any other claims/results I should know about? What did Korlash mean by Mirth being a "rusty" doc?

[Corvuus]

i got prodded in my other game, so im checking in.

Clarifications:

Kor and Cor are not NK immune. We are 1 NK resistant. Reading day 1 and day 2 can be helpful/interesting for finer points and such but many things happened on the start of day 3 which are extremely important, and ... while I believe it is anti-town to ignore previous days, I can see what Kor means that reading day 3 onwards is the main 'meat' of what is going on.

Mainly that everyone claimed, etc.

You left out Crazy claiming roleblock and role 'steal' (sort of) thief role and that he targeted Electra N1 and Farside N2.

I targetted Llama N1, SC N2 and Farside N3.
I got innocent, innocent, guilty.

Kor targetted Mirth, Cor and Tajo.
He got guilty, guilty, innocent.

There was discussion throughout day 3 on sanity, 'mirrors' and such with me thinking I am either sane or naive and Kor either paranoid or insane. With N3 and both of us getting the 'other' result, we know for 'sure' that we aren't naive (always innocent) or paranoid (always guilty) so that leaves us thinking sane and insane respectively.

It could be 50-50 for 1 or both of us, but then we might as well go jump off a cliff.

That is a 'recap' of where we 'think' we are but you can read the actual claims, flavors, etc. to see for yourself. The 'normal' millers who claimed are all dead now. It may interest you to read how the claim of Kor and Cor being 'mirrors' of each other is based on Kor being sane in words but 'insane' in investigation while Cor was insane in words but sane in investigation. Otherwise, I think the word 'mirrors' (at least as Tajo/Kor were discussing) is misleading.

Tajo and Crazy are not mirrors, or at least, in my interpretation, mirrors is a type of reflection/opposite. .... actually.... wtf...

hmm... I have to reread that but tajo and Crazy *could* be mirrors of each other if Tajo is death miller (town who flips scum) and Crazy was scum who flips town. Anyways, I thought Tajo and Crazy were claiming similarity in that both flip something different upon death... weird. I have to re-read what Tajo meant.

Tajo: I know you are VLA-ish but could you clarify what you meant by mirror and such and what you think Crazy is? You stated he is scum, but what role do you think?

As for Mirth... I think you should read her claim/posts yourself and come to your own decision and interpretation. Kor calls her 'rusty doc', I think Tajo has called her 'killing doc' and I'll just refuse to comment more than just say that she is Mirth.

Cor

[Mirth]

Rusty as in my role suggests I'm not 100% effective.